Which leisure battery to go for? (1 Viewer)

[jessthedog]

, after much deliberation I think I am going to go with a
12V 110AH LEOCH POWABLOC TUBULAR GEL LEISURE BATTERY (GTP-12110)

unless some is going to advise me differently.
My thinking is as I only intend on running with one battery I might as well go for the best I can afford.
The people at Alpha Batteries were very helpful

No need to shout about it!

Looks like a top battery with 6 year warranty. Should be, though for £215

 

[Lenny HB]

Looks good but don't know anything about them, Hong Kong registered company with factories throughout the far east. Tanya do the Sonnenschein 120a/h Gel but a lot dearer £281 + £37 delivery.

 

[DL42846]

No need to shout about it!

Looks like a top battery with 6 year warranty. Should be, though for £215

didn't mean to appear to be shouting about it. But when I copied and paste it I can't seem to go back to the normal text.
I have never bought a battery as expensive as this, but if you don't try you don't know. What sold it for me was the 1000 charge as opposed to the 500 charge rates from the other AGM batteries which were only about €50 less. Time will tell.

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[jessthedog]

didn't mean to appear to be shouting about it. But when I copied and paste it I can't seem to go back to the normal text.
I have never bought a battery as expensive as this, but if you don't try you don't know. What sold it for me was the 1000 charge as opposed to the 500 charge rates from the other AGM batteries which were only about €50 less. Time will tell.

Only Joking mate.
Yes expensive, lets hope it lives up to its impressive Stats.
(Typical max. cycle life of 1500 cycles @ 80% DoD)
I've never heard of them, so you could be the Funster guinea pig. 6 year warranty is a long time for a battery.

Its a shame that funsters don't record how long there batteries last, so there is a JD power type of battery rating.
Suppose it would be hard, because people use their vans differently.
It seems that the Varta lead acid batteries are highly rated by a few.

 

[DL42846]

Fame at last, a funster guinea pig. Our battery probably takes a bit of a bashing as we wild camp most of the time. Or go onto Aires. We have had this van almost a year now and I don't recall ever having a EHU other than when at home and getting ready to go off on a trip.

 

[Lenny HB]

Its a shame that funsters don't record how long there batteries last, so there is a JD power type of battery rating.
Suppose it would be hard, because people use their vans differently.
It seems that the Varta lead acid batteries are highly rated by a few.

Last Hymer I had for nearly 6 years Exide Gel's were still performing like new, I know others where Gel's have lasted 9 & 10 years, one of the reasons I'm pro Gel.

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[jessthedog]

Last Hymer I had for nearly 6 years Exide Gel's were still performing like new, I know others where Gel's have lasted 9 & 10 years, one of the reasons I'm pro Gel.

Why did you change to AGM?

 

[Lenny HB]

Why did you change to AGM?

I didn't Hymer did. (new van)
The AGM's failed after 18 months I replaced with Gel's.

 

[PhilandMena]

For anyone who has been following this thread I have just received written confirmation from Platinum that there AGM leisure battery is OK to charge with a charger putting out no more than 14.4V

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[Lenny HB]

For anyone who has been following this thread I have just received written confirmation from Platinum that there AGM leisure battery is OK to charge with a charger putting out no more than 14.4V

Banner said the same and they lasted all of 18 months.

Also Platinum are only a distributor (formally Northern Battery Distributon Ltd) they are only re-branded batteries not a clue who makes them.

 

[funflair]

Its a shame that funsters don't record how long there batteries last, so there is a JD power type of battery rating.
Suppose it would be hard, because people use their vans differently.
It seems that the Varta lead acid batteries are highly rated by a few.

Our van had EXIDE Gel batteries on when we bought it at 6 years old, I have a feeling they were/are original so now about 11 years old last year I added two more EXIDE Gel's to them without chucking the originals away as they were still performing, I never let them go flat as we are either out in the sun with 320 watts of solar or if in the shed the EFOY looks after the charging, when we are out and about they get used to power the inverter for microwave and coffee machine and the usual hair dryer, even the two originals at 80ah each ran the 240 volt equipment but 4 is better.

Martin

 

[DL42846]

For anyone who has been following this thread I have just received written confirmation from Platinum that there AGM leisure battery is OK to charge with a charger putting out no more than 14.4V

Just for your info. I was told the same by a couple of professional people supposedly in the know. I know nothing about electrics other than basic jobs. But two people said the same thing. Acid and AGM can run off the same type of charger, but GEL batteries have to have a special setting as I have found out to my cost.

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[DL42846]

Banner said the same and they lasted all of 18 months.

Also Platinum are only a distributor (formally Northern Battery Distributon Ltd) they are only re-branded batteries not a clue who makes them.

I don't know what Banner Leisure batteries are like but I have had a problem with an ordinary one for my Defender. It lasted about 18 months and I ended up getting it replaced under guarantee.
I also have another one in our car which has been fine. So I think there quality control could be a bit iffy. However I wont be buying then again.

 

[kelv]

My hymer was supplied with a agm battery lasted about 14 months I swoped for 2 exide gels

 

[MattR]

Apologies for the ignorant question considering all of the info above but could anyone recommend a 110amh lb as a single lb charged via ehu or the engine when running?

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[PhilandMena]

I don't know what Banner Leisure batteries are like but I have had a problem with an ordinary one for my Defender. It lasted about 18 months and I ended up getting it replaced under guarantee.
I also have another one in our car which has been fine. So I think there quality control could be a bit iffy. However I wont be buying then again.

The biggest problem with the Leisure Battery market is the simple fact there is no defined national or international standard of what constitutes a leisure battery and so many manufacturers use their own definition and as a result there are a lot of crap batteries out there that at best are no better than starter batteries and at worst useless. There is however a national and international standard for Lead acid starter batteries and it's EN 50342 This is an indication that the battery meets certain requirements and I believe this to be description and accuracy of stated AH. Anyway, it got that bad with so much utter crap being sold on to the unsuspecting public the National Caravan Council decided to do something about it. And it's all detailed here.
http://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx

 

[PhilandMena]

Apologies for the ignorant question considering all of the info above but could anyone recommend a 110amh lb as a single lb charged via ehu or the engine when running?

Have a look at this. It should help you understand what is suitable for your needs.
http://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx

 

[PhilandMena]

Banner said the same and they lasted all of 18 months.

Also Platinum are only a distributor (formally Northern Battery Distributon Ltd) they are only re-branded batteries not a clue who makes them.

LOL ! Not a bit surprised at all by your response. How 'very dare' anyone question your superior knowledge.

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[DL42846]

The biggest problem with the Leisure Battery market is the simple fact there is no defined national or international standard of what constitutes a leisure battery and so many manufacturers use their own definition and as a result there are a lot of crap batteries out there that at best are no better than starter batteries and at worst useless. There is however a national and international standard for Lead acid starter batteries and it's EN 50342 This is an indication that the battery meets certain requirements and I believe this to be description and accuracy of stated AH. Anyway, it got that bad with so much utter crap being sold on to the unsuspecting public the National Caravan Council decided to do something about it. And it's all detailed here.
http://www.thencc.org.uk/our_schemes/ncc_verified_leisure_battery_scheme.aspx

Couldn't agree with more. I have gone for a Gel battery on a suck it and see basis. On paper it looks good. I will see how it performs. The acid battery I have in there at the moment has been in there for almost 8 years and still works, but as I only run on the one battery and all our trips are on Aires or wild camping I don't want to be caught out when on the road. Preventative maintenance. Which so far has been nothing but aggravation. The battery took 10 days and several telephone calls to arrive instead of 5 days. And the charger which I have had to up grade arrived this morning but they sent the wrong one. So I have to return it and wait for the correct one. Sometimes it might be best to leave well alone.

 

[PhilandMena]

Sounds to me as if you know what you are doing and will be OK !

 

[jessthedog]

I never knew that Motorhome electrics were so bloody complicated. Ive built houses and know about domestic electricity. After the consumer unit its all T&E. its simple.
Motorhome electrics seems to a science of its own! What with battery isolaters, chargers,back to back chargers, invertors, solar, lead acid, gel, agm, Efoy. 12v, 240v.
Then theres fuses and cable sizes. Amps and amp hrs, watts. Long and slow discharge. Sealed and vented.
It goes on and on. Im sure Faraday would of been confused!

There are some on this forum who have enough battery power to run a small village.

Ive got a 100 amp Agm battery and i feel inadequate
I think instead of an A frame and car, ill tow a milkfloat and connect up to their batteries

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[Lenny HB]

LOL ! Not a bit surprised at all by your response. How 'very dare' anyone question your superior knowledge.

At least it has come from actual facts and personal experience.

 

[PhilandMena]

Banner said the same and they lasted all of 18 months.

Also Platinum are only a distributor (formally Northern Battery Distributon Ltd) they are only re-branded batteries not a clue who makes them.

Please find below a response from Platinum. IMO this blows your assertion into the water that you can not use a lead acid battery charger settings for an AGM battery and in particular your wild claim that Platinum do not have a clue who makes their batteries. As sure as eggs are eggs, you will now tell other members and myself that this guy does not know what he is talking about and everybody and his dog should accept your version of battery technology as you are holier then holy and the god of all battery knowledge.

Hello Philip


Apologies for any confusion, let me see if I can help


Sargent 3 stage intelligent chargers are one of the best within the industry, I have had many business dealings with Ian Sargent over the years, so can vouch for the quality of products manufactured by his company.


That charger will work perfectly with the AGMLB6110L, this battery requires a charger that can output around 14.4volts (maximum of 14.7). Where did the information “AGM Battery would be wrongly charged if only a maximum of 14.4V was received from a charger” as this completely incorrect. Any voltage above that threshold would damage the internal components of the battery resulting in early service life failure. Wet flooded batteries do require a higher voltage at top of charge to mix the acid and prevent a condition known as ‘stratification’. This is where over time, the acid at the base of the internal cells becomes stronger, and the acid at the top becomes weaker. So at the foot of the plates of the battery cell there will be excessive corrosion, and at the top of the pates there will be poor chemical reactions.

As the AGM (Absorbed Glass Matt) battery has no free acid, there is no danger of stratification within the cells, so this ‘equalising’ charge is not required.

The float voltage of 13.7 is again perfect, as this maintains the battery in a 100% state of charge ready for the next usage


AGM batteries are still Lead-Acid, but they are a different technology that offers much greater cyclic capability which is required for high end use on Motorhomes or Caravans.


With regards to the manufacturer of the battery, this is Fiamm in Italy, one of the top 3 battery producers in Europe who manufacture for Mercedes, Jaguar and Ferrari . Sadly there are no battery manufacturing facilities in the UK anymore


If you would like me to call and discuss further, please let me have your contact number and the best time for me to call.






Kind Regards,

Keith Rudd
Product Manager

Tel: 0161 876 3384

Mobile: 07792 102235
Email: keithrudd@platinuminternational.com

 

[Reallyretired]

I am thinking of replacing my leisure batteries (2x125Ah sealed lead acid) that are still working after 8 years, though I suspect the capacity is somewhat reduced. I put their longevity for cheap batteries (from Tayna) down to them never being seriously discharged. In the summer I have 400w of solar which keeps them pretty well fully charged most of the time, and in the winter I use EHU. (Solar when in storage but then only limited usage)

I do use hairdryer, kettle toaster, microwave off grid but with a charging rate of up to 30A in the sun they soon recharge.

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[Lenny HB]

Please find below a response from Platinum. IMO this blows your assertion into the water that you can not use a lead acid battery charger settings for an AGM battery and in particular your wild claim that Platinum do not have a clue who makes their batteries. As sure as eggs are eggs, you will now tell other members and myself that this guy does not know what he is talking about and everybody and his dog should accept your version of battery technology as you are holier then holy and the god of all battery knowledge.

It is not uncommon for manufacturers to make incorrect statements.
If Banner a large Austrian battery manufacturer, Schaudt a large German manufacturer of chargers, their charges are fitted in more Motorhomes and Caravans than any other brand and the Hymer Group the largest manufacturer of Motorhomes & Caravans in Europe. They got it wrong big time. If they can get it wrong it wouldn’t be hard for a small companies like Sargent and Platinum who don’t even make batteries to get it wrong.

As I have suggested before if you search the German forums (doubt if you did) you will see just how big the problem is of AGM batteries failing due to being charged incorrectly , not just Banner, Varta as well.

Nearly all the AGM batteries offered for leisure use are dual purpose batteries which means they are predominantly a starter battery but the AGM construction allows them to accept a higher level of discharge.
As a starter battery they are subject to high discharge or 100-200 amps but only for a few seconds and they appear to recover quite well with a charge voltage of only 14.4v from the cars alternator although this is not ideal, the one in my car is still going strong after 4½ years.
In a leisure situation they are subjected to a slow discharge down to a low level on a daily basis, charging at 14.4v never gives them a chance to fully recover, they also require a much higher current during the bulk charge stage which a standard charger can not supply, this in turn leads to premature failure.

My own experience of AGM’s certainly backs this up. My van had 2 x 90a/h AGM batteries, 2 x 100 watt solar panels and a Schaudt LR1218 Solar regulator (which only charges to 14.2v.). The system never performed as well as my last Hymer that only had 2 x 80a/h Gel batteries and an 80 watt solar panel, the power requirements of the van were higher but the performance from the batteries was much better.
I have since replaced the AGM’s with Gel batteries and the improved performance of the batteries was immediately noticeable.

I have spent over 40 years working in electrical & electronic industries 10 of those spent as a technical manager on the electrical side in the Motorhome and Caravan industry.
Can I ask what your experience and qualifications are?

If it is OK to charge AGM batteries with a standard charge to 14.4v please can you explain why Schaudt the largest charger manufacturer in Europe has spent time and money redesigning their units to for charging AGM batteries to charge at 14.8v.
Also why are car manufacturers now specifying Alternators that charge at 14.8v for AGM batteries.

 

[PhilandMena]

I thought you would challenge the reply from platinum and I was right. You certainly have a bee in your bonnet about banner batteries and I guess because of your bad experience with them have condemned them for life.
I am not a technical expert and do not claim to be. That is why I rely on those who are certified as being competent rather than making a leap of faith when I'm told they are an expert with no evidence of qualification and continued professional developement.
Nothing personal, my old fruit pastel, but I choose to accept the written technical statements from Sargent on the product they design and build, and the product manager of Platinum, as opposed to you. No offence bit it is what it is.

 

[PhilandMena]

Just thought I would add that reading through your post again, you are now saying the Banner AGM battery failure was down to being incorrectly charged. Not exactly the fault of the battery manufacturer if this is factually correct.

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[Lenny HB]

Just thought I would add that reading through your post again, you are now saying the Banner AGM battery failure was down to being incorrectly charged. Not exactly the fault of the battery manufacturer if this is factually correct.

They were charged the way Banner recommended and it is also the way you keep telling everyone to do it.

 

[Lenny HB]

I thought you would challenge the reply from platinum and I was right. You certainly have a bee in your bonnet about banner batteries and I guess because of your bad experience with them have condemned them for life.
.

If read my post you will also see that I said Varta's have been failing as well.
I will admit having a bit off a beef with Banner as they do not honor their warranty, they sell batteries that are marketed as Dual purpose for Starter & Leisure use and will only accept starter battery test as proof of failure. There are also quite a few other Funsters that have had problems with Banner batteries.

Nothing personal, my old fruit pastel, but I choose to accept the written technical statements from Sargent on the product they design and build, and the product manager of Platinum, as opposed to you. No offence bit it is what it is.

What I was pointing out is if Banner, Schaudt & Hymer can get it wrong it makes me skeptical about what other manufacturers say.
There is not much of a track record with AGM's in leisure use but what there is sounds pretty disastrous.
In a lot of cases the AGM's will survive as the use is always on a EHU, but when stressed in an off grid situation they fail remarkedly early.

I am not talking offense (apart from being called a fruit pastel) I am just trying to help people avoid wrecking their AGM batteries and stating that they should only be charged with proper AGM charger.

 

[PhilandMena]

So glad you agree with me in the end. No offence meant with the fruit pastel remark and I accept you have the best interests of members at heart, as I do. The sooner an national or international standard is produced for a ' leisure battery' the better we will all be for it.

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