VOSA Fact or Fiction

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Geo, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    This report was posted on an Auto sport face book page as a warning to its members
    that Vosa had pulled a tag axle Kontiki with a Smart Car on a Trailer
    The member is personally known to me
    He says he is plated at 5000kg train weight and weighed in at 6007 Kg all in
    the result of the check was 1007 KG overweight:Eeek:

    I have no reason to disbelive him BUT can someone with this type of motor home confirm that the quoted figures are about right, they seem high to me
    He was let off with a warning :Eeek:and given a producer for his documents
    following this post another message from another well respected member ie the club Chairman stated.

    I have it on good authority that "Operation Overweight" starts on May 1st targeting WEEKEND "Leisure Users" ..in particular people towing horseboxes and trailers !!. Trailer towing rules and regs' are a minefield and I would think it time well spent in making sure if you're towing you're fully aware of the requirements . Also be aware that the more weight you add to your towing vehicle ( food, beer ect ect) the less you can legally tow !!! GVW - GTW


    Fact or Fiction Folks I dont know:Sad:
    Geo
     
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  2. SomeoneElse

    SomeoneElse Funster

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    No specific info, but my Bailey Approach is plated at 3500kg max weight but with a train limit of 5500kg.
    I would expect the Kontiki to be over 3500kg to start with so a 5000kg train limit wouldn't leave much for a trailer.

    Gordon
     
  3. Forestboy

    Forestboy Funster Life Member

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    Although not a Swift my Hymer is similar configuration tag axle.
    Gross Weight 5000kgs
    Train Weight 5250kgs
    That's the reason we don't tow, tags have massive payloads because of the extra axle but it comes off the Train Weight. When I see tags towing I always wonder how they get away with it obviously they don't they are just waiting to get caught. We carry a motorcycle in the garage as our payload is nearly 1500kgs and we're never more than 4500kgs and we check weigh regularly.
    The only way for us to tow legally would be to run the van virtually empty to keep us under weight I suppose but that's not a realistic option for us Jan even takes her sewing machine.
     
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  4. flatpackchicken

    flatpackchicken Funster Life Member

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    Hi Geo, Well first of all I would imagine the kontiki would have a gvw of about 5000kgs and maybe a gtw of about 7000kgs.
    It sounds to me as though he may have overloaded his m/h up to 6001kg that's why he got done as over the 5000kg limit?????
    Secondly statement by the club chairman is misleading, as don't matter what you put in the towing vehicle/trailer as it is the gvw that is stamped into the chassis that is what counts as the gvw not what the vehicle/trailer weights, ie gvw of m/h say 5000kg + gvw of trailer 2000kg = gtw 7000kg, hope I have explained this ok. Regards Garry Flatpackchicken
     
  5. matamoros

    matamoros Funster

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    They let him off with a 20% overload!!!

    Cost me £600 20 years ago for an 11% overload on the front axle of a 7.5 tonner.:Angry:
     
  6. Forestboy

    Forestboy Funster Life Member

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    If you look at Kontiki specs some are 5000kgs gross and 6000kgs train wt so he may well have only been a few kgs over hence the warning.
    We got done £400 for 100kgs over on the rear axle on a 7.5 tonnes
     
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  7. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Having looked into it more, it seems VOSA have a tolerance of up to 5% but anything over a Ton overweight gets a ticket:Eeek: even if that ton only equates to say 3%
    So its seems he got caught on a good day
    Any one else heard of "Operation Overweight":Eeek:
    G
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2014
  8. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    Alko 5000Kg Low Line Chassis
    835Kg Payload

    Thats on a 2007 Kontiki 669

    Peter
     
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  9. phil1946

    phil1946 Funster

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    From memory our Hymer 694 (tag axle) was plated at 4,800 GVW and 5,500 GTW. That was why (when realised) we stopped TOADing and towed the 750Kg box trailer with scooter inside with other bits and bobs.

    The TREK is 6,713 GVW with 9,072 GTW (limited in practice to 8,250 by extension 107 on licence) and the TOAD has a GVW of 1,460.

    I believe I am legal at an actual Train Weight of (6,713 plus 1,460) 8,173Kg.

    Anyone know otherwise?
     
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  10. flatpackchicken

    flatpackchicken Funster Life Member

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    Nope sounds ok to me Regards Garry Flatpackchicken
     
  11. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    I looked at several tag axles before buying the RMB which is built on the Merc 410D chassis with a gross weight 4600Kg (5.075 tons) Max train weight 5900Kg (6.5 ton) with twin rear wheels, as I wanted to tow a trailer with my Smart car on it. Most if not all tag axles are built on the Alco chassis which as far as I know is not designed for towing heavy trailers. Some are impossible to get a towbar for. So the OP does not surprise me in the slightest.
     
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  12. maz

    maz Funster

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    My tag on an Al-Ko chassis has a gross weight of 5000kg (I run at around 4550kg fully laden) with a gross train weight of 6000kg. I don't drag a toad but I could if I wanted to. :Smile:
     
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  13. knokinonabit

    knokinonabit Funster

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    This is the part of the vehicle conformity specs from AutoTrail.
    As you can see, I can go to 5 tonne with the MH and tow up to 1 tonne.
    So even a Smart car on a trailer specifically made for it (light weight etc.) would be to heavy to tow.
     

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  14. Trikeman

    Trikeman Read Only Funster

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    Hi, I don't know if this could help some Funsters. From past experience a great deal of confusion has been seen as regards weights/plates and the understanding of - not wishing to upset the knowledgeable, but it may help someone.

    Here is the main manufacturers plate on my Autotrail Apache 700SE.

    [​IMG]

    We are predominantly looking at weights, so ignore the top sets of figures which are vehicle specific info like the Vehicle Identification Number.

    Here are the weights in descending order.
    3500kg - This is the gross vehicle weight (the weight of the whole vehicle, including everything in/on it which must not be exceeded).

    5500kg - This is the train weight (the maximum weight of the vehicle including everything in/on it and the weight of the trailer/toad with everything in/on it).

    1850kg - (1) This is the FRONT axle weight (which must not be exceeded when weighed individually with everything in/on the vehicle).

    2120kg - (2) This is the REAR axle weight (which must not be exceeded when weighed individually with everything in/on the vehicle).

    Some can go really wrong when weighing their vehicles, as using just the axle weights CAN get them into trouble, as still the GVW must not be exceeded. If one adds front and rear axle maximum weights together that adds up to 3970kg :Eek!: but you must not, in this case, exceed the 3500kg GVW.

    To calculate the weight of anything being towed (to ensure they don't exceed the GTW Train Weight) in this (above) case the trailer/toad could be up to 2000kg on its own, bearing in mind that is everything, including the toad's A frame. Something to also be aware of is the toad's A frame or trailer's downward 'hitch' weight - which does affect rear axle loading too (need to be careful there) you could be within the train weight but the load imposed by the trailer/toad could put the rear axle over it's maximum weight.

    Although I have used the photo of my manufacturers plate to help, my particular MoHo has a re-designated GVW of 3850kg and can legally run at that (additional plate by the side of the above)....... HOWEVER, the sting on this plate states, as long as the axle weights are not exceeded. So it's not ONLY weight, it's where it is on the vehicle too.

    What a bloody minefield, aye? :Eeek:

    I hope I haven't bored the knowledgeable and sincerely hope it has helped anyone struggling to understand their weights and plate information.

    Regards,

    Trikeman. :Wink:
     
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  15. Trikeman

    Trikeman Read Only Funster

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    I too was in the market for a tag axle Autotrail (or similar) at the time I bought my current non-tag Autotrail and my main reason for not getting one was the very low train weight on some. Our intension was always to take the car with us and just about every tag axle we looked at just wouldn't legally tow a car, trailered or toaded.

    Having said that, the M5 is plastered in tag axles with cars on trailers/toads this afternoon merrily bombing their way down South.
    :Laughing:

    Trikeman. :Wink:
     
  16. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    train weigh can be altered at manufacture.

    our last kontiki was 3850kg but registered as 3500kg and a train of 5500kg


    when i had the weight changed to 3850kg, an increase of 350kg, i got a cert of conformity from Alko and the train had been reduced by Alko to 5150kg....a reduction of 350kg but overall no change....gross up 350kg and train down 350kg.

    saying that, as it already had an Alko vin stating 3850 (just wrongly registered) and a train of 5500kg so i never fitted the new vin plate and it stayed at 5500kg anyway.
     
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  17. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    and looking at the cert you technically cant tow a car on an A frame either....even if you could find one light enough.

    specifically no weight allowance for a drawbar trailer, which a car is when towed.

    axles at front and rear rather than centred.
     
  18. aba

    aba

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    I have only seen a couple of large motorhomes capable of legally towing anything much bigger than a smart car and those are based on the iveco 6.5 ton chassis with a plated train weight of 9000kg.
     
  19. knokinonabit

    knokinonabit Funster

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    I agree with you on that. :thumb:
     
  20. matamoros

    matamoros Funster

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    Does that make a difference, as far as I am aware train weight is train weight?

    I have never seen a plate with anything but gross, axle and train weights.
     
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