Totally flumoxed by enigmatic Fiat Ducato

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by tobytenblue, May 4, 2013.

  1. tobytenblue

    tobytenblue Read Only Funster

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    The saga of my petrol driven Fiat Ducato Compass Calypso continues.
    To recap:
    In December last year, I used a pressure washer to wash my van.
    After washing, my van developed a profound misfire and shortly after that stopped running all together. Shortly before Christmas I had the van towed to a garage and it has remained there ever since. During the last four months the van has been fitted with new electrics (coil, distributor cap, plugs, leads etc.) and the carburetor has been stripped, cleaned and rebuilt. The fuel lines have been checked and in-line filter/s fitted.

    The van will now start on the choke, but refuses to tick over. Once the choke is closed the engine dies. The engine also cuts out under load, i.e. when the engine is running with the clutch in and first gear engaged, the engine is unable to develop sufficient revs to allow the clutch to be let out for the van to move off. In other words, the engine dies under load.

    My mechanic is completely stumped by this (as am I) but is determined to get to the bottom of it so any suggestions will be much appreciated.

    Brian :Sad:
     
  2. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    pure coincidence and i bet nobody has checked the timing belt.

    all the symptoms of a slipped timing belt....lack of power and bad starting..
     
  3. tobytenblue

    tobytenblue Read Only Funster

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    Mechanic has never mentioned the timing belt so I'll suggest that to him today. Thanks for letting me know. :Smile:
     
  4. freelanderuk

    freelanderuk Read Only Funster

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  5. Electraglide

    Electraglide Funster

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    I bought a new 1987 Talbot Express motorhome , with a 2 litre Peugeot petrol engine, don't know anything about the Fiat engine. If yours is a similar age, that had points ignition, vacuum advance/retard and bob weights. If your mechanic is old enough to remember them, I would check if the advance/retard is working you could have dislodged the hose when pressure washing.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2013
  6. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Funster

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    There's a lesson to be learned here for others,and you've learned it the hard way,pressure washing your engine is not a good idea!
    To many electrical components.
    Vlad
     
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  7. Electraglide

    Electraglide Funster

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    Or any bearings, a pressure washer will get water past any seal
     
  8. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    Or anything on a motor vehicle really.

    They are more trouble than they are worth most of the time.

    Brush, hose, elbow grease.
     
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  9. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    This *is one of those times that I wish i was there to sort this out for you as its right up my street

    I've read the comments and I don't think for one minute that it's timing belt issues, as they only ways that they can slip is if the tensioner fails, or the teeth strip from inside the belt, either way you wouldn't get it to start after the initial time the belt failed. If it was the bob weights or vacuumed advance then it would still run, but very roughly and misfire, depending on the load on the engine and throttle position.

    Working on what you have posted so far, is that you've changed the electronics and stripped and cleaned the carb, but its the carburettor that my money lays for sure.

    A carburettor has to go through a number of stages and each one will use different jets and a different route for the fuel to be metered out into the venturi and mixed with the incoming air. This can be as rich as 1:1 for cold start, 12-15:1 for fast idle and then approx 20:1 (air to fuel ratio) for tickover once the *vehicle has reached an optimum temp. There's also snap acceleration that enriches the fuel again for overtaking etc.

    Did you check the floats in that they actually float and then measure their travel distance to the main jet as all this is vital. If your mechanic did all the overhauls at the same time (electrics and carb strip) then he my well have even put another fault into the fuel system without realising and I've seen it happen before and while your still trying to diagnose the possible water ingress, you've rectified this with the electrics, but then added the fuel problem. Wild but it's a consideration.

    The very fact that it runs on choke, which is the enriched fuel mixture and limits the airflow, but then dies as you introduce more air to the mixture, by either closing the choke or attempting to accelerate, *is where I'd concentrate my fault findings....reclean the jets, blow out the drillings, make sure the copper washers are in good order, check the floats and then make sure the gaskets are all in good order and then see how you get on.

    It's a long rant and hard to get cross in a forum like this one, but google as well and hope your back on the road ASAP.

    Good luck as its a right pain in the butt and hope you get it sorted soonest

    :thumb::thumb::thumb:
     
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  10. tobytenblue

    tobytenblue Read Only Funster

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    Thanks to all,

    I've had further discussion with my mechanic and he told me that he'd considered pappajohn's suggestion re the timing belt but he went on to say that my engine has a timing chain rather than a belt so he thought slippage unlikely. ???????

    Brian.
     
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  11. Peter & Elaine

    Peter & Elaine Funster

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    You need spark air and fuel
    You must have spark and air or it would not even start
    So it's ether incorrect timing or fuel
    My money's on fuel starvation as pp bear states so well
     
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  12. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    To echo the Bear your carb has been stripped and re assembled but certainly not cleaned,
    these carbs are notoriously difficult to understand and service correctly.

    So much so, your mechanic will poo poo the suggestion he aint got it right, if he does, he never will
    The carb will need overseeing by someone who fully understands them or exchanging for a known good one
    Geo
    Im offering a 100/1 Carb:thumb:
     
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  13. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    that buggers that idea then :Doh:
     
  14. durhamahoy

    durhamahoy Funster

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    Fuel supply

    Hi ,
    This post brought back some bad memories, I had just had the van serviced and about a mile from the garage on the way home the van cut out on a roundabout. it turned out to be fuel starvation, as in sucking too much air and not enough fuel... the 'push on' fuel line had not been pushed on properly during a filter change. Mine is a 1999 Fiat Ducato Sundance.
    Apparently the fuel is a suction feed, and the fuel line was easily displaced! now fitted with a proper clip.
    Not much help for your problem for which I apologise, but hope you get things sorted soon and are back on the road.
    Steve
     
  15. Phill D

    Phill D

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    Snipped
    Ex Tiffy Vehicles Then:thumb:
     
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  16. jollyrodger

    jollyrodger Funster Life Member

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    Reading your post and all posted comments ,and assuming the engine was running sweet prior to pressure washing, that`s what caused your problems is what you are saying?
    Has anyone mentioned or looked at the ballast resistor,or ballast resist wire,(whatever fitted ,if at all) or condenser,failure as even damp in these can give all the symptoms of fuel starvation and have you looking ing the completely wrong direction ie carb strip down.and given all the inclement weather we have had since your cleaning with high pressure washer.Just a thought. I was an AA patrol at Patchway years ago and this was a common problem on a Sunday morning :Wink:
     
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  17. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    Spot on Phil and still doing my bit :thumb:

    From the days of suck, squeeze, bang, blow :BigGrin::BigGrin:
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2013
  18. Phill D

    Phill D

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    me too ex Art Veh, but been doing all sorts since left many moons ago now. if anyone had told me that i would have had a follow up career managing making cakes and desserts for M&S and Waitrose i would have thought they had been on the " gorilla snot" or Panther p**S :Doh::Rofl1:

    never regretted my service and loved most of it but needed to move on. perhaps well have a beer one day:thumb:
     
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  19. PP Bear

    PP Bear Funster Life Member

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    It's a future date Phil, first wobbly on me :thumb::BigGrin:
     
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  20. Phill D

    Phill D

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    were off to Sunnier climes " well we hope" next week until July :thumb: we are booked on the Malvern show with FUN, weekend 13th August if you are goin:thumb:
     
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