Totally flumoxed by enigmatic Fiat Ducato (1 Viewer)

tobytenblue

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The saga of my petrol driven Fiat Ducato Compass Calypso continues.
To recap:
In December last year, I used a pressure washer to wash my van.
After washing, my van developed a profound misfire and shortly after that stopped running all together. Shortly before Christmas I had the van towed to a garage and it has remained there ever since. During the last four months the van has been fitted with new electrics (coil, distributor cap, plugs, leads etc.) and the carburetor has been stripped, cleaned and rebuilt. The fuel lines have been checked and in-line filter/s fitted.

The van will now start on the choke, but refuses to tick over. Once the choke is closed the engine dies. The engine also cuts out under load, i.e. when the engine is running with the clutch in and first gear engaged, the engine is unable to develop sufficient revs to allow the clutch to be let out for the van to move off. In other words, the engine dies under load.

My mechanic is completely stumped by this (as am I) but is determined to get to the bottom of it so any suggestions will be much appreciated.

Brian :Sad:
 

pappajohn

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pure coincidence and i bet nobody has checked the timing belt.

all the symptoms of a slipped timing belt....lack of power and bad starting..
 
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tobytenblue

tobytenblue

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Mechanic has never mentioned the timing belt so I'll suggest that to him today. Thanks for letting me know. :Smile:

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Jul 27, 2010
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I bought a new 1987 Talbot Express motorhome , with a 2 litre Peugeot petrol engine, don't know anything about the Fiat engine. If yours is a similar age, that had points ignition, vacuum advance/retard and bob weights. If your mechanic is old enough to remember them, I would check if the advance/retard is working you could have dislodged the hose when pressure washing.
 
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Vlad The Impaler

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There's a lesson to be learned here for others,and you've learned it the hard way,pressure washing your engine is not a good idea!
To many electrical components.
Vlad

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PP Bear

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This *is one of those times that I wish i was there to sort this out for you as its right up my street

I've read the comments and I don't think for one minute that it's timing belt issues, as they only ways that they can slip is if the tensioner fails, or the teeth strip from inside the belt, either way you wouldn't get it to start after the initial time the belt failed. If it was the bob weights or vacuumed advance then it would still run, but very roughly and misfire, depending on the load on the engine and throttle position.

Working on what you have posted so far, is that you've changed the electronics and stripped and cleaned the carb, but its the carburettor that my money lays for sure.

A carburettor has to go through a number of stages and each one will use different jets and a different route for the fuel to be metered out into the venturi and mixed with the incoming air. This can be as rich as 1:1 for cold start, 12-15:1 for fast idle and then approx 20:1 (air to fuel ratio) for tickover once the *vehicle has reached an optimum temp. There's also snap acceleration that enriches the fuel again for overtaking etc.

Did you check the floats in that they actually float and then measure their travel distance to the main jet as all this is vital. If your mechanic did all the overhauls at the same time (electrics and carb strip) then he my well have even put another fault into the fuel system without realising and I've seen it happen before and while your still trying to diagnose the possible water ingress, you've rectified this with the electrics, but then added the fuel problem. Wild but it's a consideration.

The very fact that it runs on choke, which is the enriched fuel mixture and limits the airflow, but then dies as you introduce more air to the mixture, by either closing the choke or attempting to accelerate, *is where I'd concentrate my fault findings....reclean the jets, blow out the drillings, make sure the copper washers are in good order, check the floats and then make sure the gaskets are all in good order and then see how you get on.

It's a long rant and hard to get cross in a forum like this one, but google as well and hope your back on the road ASAP.

Good luck as its a right pain in the butt and hope you get it sorted soonest

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

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tobytenblue

tobytenblue

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Thanks to all,

I've had further discussion with my mechanic and he told me that he'd considered pappajohn's suggestion re the timing belt but he went on to say that my engine has a timing chain rather than a belt so he thought slippage unlikely. ???????

Brian.
 
Aug 30, 2012
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You need spark air and fuel
You must have spark and air or it would not even start
So it's ether incorrect timing or fuel
My money's on fuel starvation as pp bear states so well
 

Geo

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To echo the Bear your carb has been stripped and re assembled but certainly not cleaned,
these carbs are notoriously difficult to understand and service correctly.

So much so, your mechanic will poo poo the suggestion he aint got it right, if he does, he never will
The carb will need overseeing by someone who fully understands them or exchanging for a known good one
Geo
Im offering a 100/1 Carb:thumb:

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pappajohn

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Thanks to all,

I've had further discussion with my mechanic and he told me that he'd considered pappajohn's suggestion re the timing belt but he went on to say that my engine has a timing chain rather than a belt so he thought slippage unlikely. ???????

Brian.
that buggers that idea then :Doh:
 

durhamahoy

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Jun 11, 2012
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Fuel supply

Hi ,
This post brought back some bad memories, I had just had the van serviced and about a mile from the garage on the way home the van cut out on a roundabout. it turned out to be fuel starvation, as in sucking too much air and not enough fuel... the 'push on' fuel line had not been pushed on properly during a filter change. Mine is a 1999 Fiat Ducato Sundance.
Apparently the fuel is a suction feed, and the fuel line was easily displaced! now fitted with a proper clip.
Not much help for your problem for which I apologise, but hope you get things sorted soon and are back on the road.
Steve
 

jollyrodger

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The saga of my petrol driven Fiat Ducato Compass Calypso continues.
To recap:
In December last year, I used a pressure washer to wash my van.
After washing, my van developed a profound misfire and shortly after that stopped running all together. Shortly before Christmas I had the van towed to a garage and it has remained there ever since. During the last four months the van has been fitted with new electrics (coil, distributor cap, plugs, leads etc.) and the carburetor has been stripped, cleaned and rebuilt. The fuel lines have been checked and in-line filter/s fitted.

The van will now start on the choke, but refuses to tick over. Once the choke is closed the engine dies. The engine also cuts out under load, i.e. when the engine is running with the clutch in and first gear engaged, the engine is unable to develop sufficient revs to allow the clutch to be let out for the van to move off. In other words, the engine dies under load.

My mechanic is completely stumped by this (as am I) but is determined to get to the bottom of it so any suggestions will be much appreciated.

Brian :Sad:
Reading your post and all posted comments ,and assuming the engine was running sweet prior to pressure washing, that`s what caused your problems is what you are saying?
Has anyone mentioned or looked at the ballast resistor,or ballast resist wire,(whatever fitted ,if at all) or condenser,failure as even damp in these can give all the symptoms of fuel starvation and have you looking ing the completely wrong direction ie carb strip down.and given all the inclement weather we have had since your cleaning with high pressure washer.Just a thought. I was an AA patrol at Patchway years ago and this was a common problem on a Sunday morning :winky:
 
Dec 6, 2011
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Spot on Phil and still doing my bit :thumb:

From the days of suck, squeeze, band, blow ::bigsmile:::bigsmile:

me too ex Art Veh, but been doing all sorts since left many moons ago now. if anyone had told me that i would have had a follow up career managing making cakes and desserts for M&S and Waitrose i would have thought they had been on the " gorilla snot" or Panther p**S :Doh::ROFLMAO:

never regretted my service and loved most of it but needed to move on. perhaps well have a beer one day:thumb:

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PP Bear

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me too ex Art Veh, but been doing all sorts since left many moons ago now. if anyone had told me that i would have had a follow up career managing making cakes and desserts for M&S and Waitrose i would have thought they had been on the " gorilla snot" or Panther p**S :Doh::ROFLMAO:

never regretted my service and loved most of it but needed to move on. perhaps well have a beer one day:thumb:

It's a future date Phil, first wobbly on me :thumb:::bigsmile:
 
Dec 6, 2011
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It's a future date Phil, first wobbly on me :thumb:::bigsmile:

were off to Sunnier climes " well we hope" next week until July :thumb: we are booked on the Malvern show with FUN, weekend 13th August if you are goin:thumb:
 

PP Bear

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were off to Sunnier climes " well we hope" next week until July :thumb: we are booked on the Malvern show with FUN, weekend 13th August if you are goin:thumb:

I take up my next appointment on 01 August at the REME Arms School, so early August an unknown as yet, but it's now on the radar Phil :Smile:

Defo be at the Great Dorset Steam Fair at the end of August as the leaves been plotted already......you'd find me in the marquee at the stowpress cider barrel.....who knew there was a life after Viśen Beer :thumb::thumb:

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Dec 6, 2011
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I take up my next appointment on 01 August at the REME Arms School, so early August an unknown as yet, but it's now on the radar Phil :Smile:

Defo be at the Great Dorset Steam Fair at the end of August as the leaves been plotted already......you'd find me in the marquee at the stowpress cider barrel.....who knew there was a life after Viśen Beer :thumb::thumb:

will see whats on. you never know:thumb:
 
Jan 28, 2008
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while you have it ticking over open throttle and get some one to spray carb cleaner or aerostart in if it will run higher revs then its a carb problem as the enginge is obviously not getting the fuel it need s
our old talbot had troubles with corrosion in the tank which filled a filter which had been added every 300 miles till i dropped the tank and cleaned it out
i think theres a mesh filter on the inet pipe which would give those symptoms as well
 

mick noe

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not a very technical test but I would take off air filter throw couple of caps of fuel directly into the intake and see if when started it revs for a few seconds......... if so blocked jet. I to think it will turn out to be carb

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G4OGE

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Thinking logically the problem started after the cleaning so this would point to this being the problem you have spark so this rules out electrics apart from the condenser as suggested before I assume it is electronic ignition and not points check the unit that generates the spark, other things to consider are air leaks the power of the pressure washer is quite powerful and could pierce rubber hoses if they are on the old side or cracked I have even seen aluminium inlet manifolds have a thin spot (which can happen in the casting process) I had this problem on a car no one could fix I observed a flame coming from it and fitted a new one and off it went.

A methodical check of all pipes filters and feeds to the engine first then a good look round the inlet side of things other things to check are the timing chain tensioner is OK this may allow the timing not to work OK if it was faulty but you would hear a racket from the front cover blocked exhaust did you blast under the van? have a feel or listen at the end just to eliminate it.

Check all electrical service plugs to the engine unplug them and check for any green rot that may have occurred spray with WD 40 electrical water inhibitor to make sure.

Is the fuel delivery fuel pressure good if it an electric fuel pump check this out if manual
I have seen the striker that runs on the camshaft wear so the stroke of the pump was not enough to pump fuel. most of these will not be the problem but need eliminating after the more obvious ones.

To create more fuel in the venture you can cover most of the inlet with the flat of you hand or something flat and strong that won't go in the inlet of course while trying to rev it up if it did rev this would indicate the fuel the same as feeding fuel in as suggested.

if it were a non starter other things could be a broken distributor shaft and you would remove the cap turn the engine and observe it turning but I don't think this is the case here.

Check the earth leads to the body and the starter wear in the rotor arm.

I hope some of these help. Albert:thumb:
 
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I have had cars whereby they would tick over, and when under throttle, quit. One was a split coil lead, which would earth when under load. And another was a hairline crack in the rotor arm. Both were invisible to the eye.

Craig
 

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