Speeding abroad is about to get very expensive (1 Viewer)

[The Dotties]

@Stewart J. Can you point me towards the gps speedo you have bought please. Is it any good?

You could download the app in both apple and android phones and use that. Phone will stay on whilst in use, and speed is shown in metric or imperial full screen size.works well for me.

Sorry, didn't see dna reply

 

[nicholsong]

It will be interesting to know how a French Prosecution letter would be worded.

If it is addressed to the 'Owner', then as the Registered Keeper one could respond that one is not the owner.

If it is addressed to the 'Registered Keeper' one could respond that under French law there is no liability, since that lies with the 'Owner'

Geoff

 

[The Nomad]

Yes, this is correct and it is therefore easy for the French (and others) to prosecute with just vehicle registration mark.

No it isn't.
And that's the massive and fatal flaw in this "Information Exchange" process.
There is no legal provision in the UK constititution for a foreign State to bring a prosecution against you in an English Magistrates court for such a minor offence (legally only an alleged offence).
So whilst the French (or German or Spanish, etc) may now be able to obtain information on the name and address of the registered owner of a British registered vehicle if "flashed" for speeding in their country, there is no mechanism by which they can prosecute in the UK.
All they can do is to send the registered owner a letter demanding payment of a "fine" for such alleged offence. They cannot enforce payment in the UK courts.

Now, that "offence" may well stay on their computer records and thus if you get caught for summat else in-country next time you are over there, they could well seize your vehicle until/unless you paid up. But they cannot chase you through the British courts system.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[mpdcymru]

No it isn't.
And that's the massive and fatal flaw in this "Information Exchange" process.
There is no legal provision in the UK constititution for a foreign State to bring a prosecution against you in an English Magistrates court for such a minor offence (legally only an alleged offence).
So whilst the French (or German or Spanish, etc) may now be able to obtain information on the name and address of the registered owner of a British registered vehicle if "flashed" for speeding in their country, there is no mechanism by which they can prosecute in the UK.
All they can do is to send the registered owner a letter demanding payment of a "fine" for such alleged offence. They cannot enforce payment in the UK courts.

Now, that "offence" may well stay on their computer records and thus if you get caught for summat else in-country next time you are over there, they could well seize your vehicle until/unless you paid up. But they cannot chase you through the British courts system.

I am led to believe that there would not be a case for a "prosecution" in and "English" (you may mean "British") court as the offence would not have nbeen committed here, hence there is no "locus" for that offence.
the prosecution, if any, would take place in the area in which the offence was committed and the accused would probably have been tried in their absence, although they could attend if they wanted to. If found guilty (almost certain if the case was heard in absence) then the fine imposed would be sent to the British address. If that fine were not paid then I believe there is a system in place to have the non-payment of fine matter heard by a Britisdh court. It is the non-payment issue that would be heard by the court and not the speeding offence. Recovery of that outstanding fine (for non payment) would then be facilitated by the cross-border initiative.

 

[Neil S]

I read somewhere that after we leave the EU this ruling is likely to be rescinded

 

[mpdcymru]

I read somewhere that after we leave the EU this ruling is likely to be rescinded

That might depend on how hard the exit is. If Theresa May gets the majority she is looking for (and it looks like she probably will) then there may not be enough people in her own party to keep her to all the promises and we could end up leaving in name only, still subject to the European Court and paying for the upkeep of the institutions but not able to take advantage of free trade etc.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[The Nomad]

I am led to believe that there would not be a case for a "prosecution" in and "English" (you may mean "British") court as the offence would not have nbeen committed here, hence there is no "locus" for that offence.
the prosecution, if any, would take place in the area in which the offence was committed and the accused would probably have been tried in their absence, although they could attend if they wanted to. If found guilty (almost certain if the case was heard in absence) then the fine imposed would be sent to the British address. If that fine were not paid then I believe there is a system in place to have the non-payment of fine matter heard by a Britisdh court. It is the non-payment issue that would be heard by the court and not the speeding offence. Recovery of that outstanding fine (for non payment) would then be facilitated by the cross-border initiative.

No I don't mean British I mean English.
The Scottish criminal prosecution system is different to that in England and Wales (Wales being constitutionally a Principality of England and sharing the same jurisprudence).
There is no mechanism in the English magistrates courts to pursue non-payment of a fine imposed in or by a foreign State.
This EU cross border initiative is with regard to limited INFORMATION (my stress) only, not enforcement.

 

[PeteH]

Ummm - you do know that the UK is in Europe?

Hopefully not for much longer!!. ( the EU that is)

P.s Does that constitute a "Brexit" Post?. if so Sorry!

 

[mpdcymru]

Council Framework decision 2005/12/JH on the application of the principle of mutual recognition of financial penalties may influence this issue and, given that Wales is constitutionally a Principality of England and shares the same jurisprudence, does not make a court in Cardiff, Swansea or similar places an English court, it is still a Welsh court.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Clarky]

It's all very well arguing about whether a fine can be imposed in the UK or not but what happens if you want to return to France?
As many of us are frequent visitors, 5 trips in the last year for us, any non payment of fines could come back to bite us on the bum.
Surely the reg no will pop up at ports and on police computers at your next visit and you will be clobbered.
Might be better to just bite the bullet and pay up, otherwise you will always be waiting for the proverbial 'tap on the shoulder' instead of relaxing on holiday.

Richard.

 

[The Nomad]

Council Framework decision 2005/12/JH on the application of the principle of mutual recognition of financial penalties may influence this issue and, given that Wales is constitutionally a Principality of England and shares the same jurisprudence, does not make a court in Cardiff, Swansea or similar places an English court, it is still a Welsh court.

Nope. This is pretty basic constitutional law.

Wales is a part of, a Principality within, the country of Engalnd.

The constitutional delineation in British law is whether in England (of which Wales is a part) or in Scotland.

It is an English court in law, whether the courtroom dispensing such English law is situated in London, Cheltenham, Leeds, Cardiff or Swansea.

 

[gus-lopez]

It's all very well arguing about whether a fine can be imposed in the UK or not but what happens if you want to return to France?
As many of us are frequent visitors, 5 trips in the last year for us, any non payment of fines could come back to bite us on the bum.
Surely the reg no will pop up at ports and on police computers at your next visit and you will be clobbered.
Might be better to just bite the bullet and pay up, otherwise you will always be waiting for the proverbial 'tap on the shoulder' instead of relaxing on holiday.

Richard.

be on the safe side & change the private plate after every trip.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[mpdcymru]

If you return to France there is a possibility of your record being retained on their systems. I have no knowledge of their system for retrieving such data but would hazard a guess that the information is available to on-road enforcement officers (as it is in the UK - England, Scotland, Wales and, though it differs in detail, Northen Ireland).

If you want a quiet life, it is probably better to pay the penalty.

 

[Lot lover]

but it can be quite easy to be caught out especially in France the villages do not have a speed limit signage

Oh yes they do - as you enter the village there is a rectangular sign with a red border all around bearing the name of the village, this tells you that there is a 50 kph limit. As you leave the village there is another rectangular sign, this time with a black diagonal line across it - telling you that have left the village and the speed limit normally returns to 90 kph.

Just remember - ignorance is no excuse for not knowing.

EDIT - apologies - have just seen moulin's post

 

[spitfire]

Simples Dont speed

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Whitebirdyman]

Got flashed a couple of times in France last week.
Not too bothered though as we were on a motorway and the camera must have thought we were a truck.........................I hope.

Richard.

I was flashed today on the N12 dual carriageway. Limit was 110kph clearly marked just before the camera and I was doing 90kph on cruise control and the speed had been steady for some time.

Hopefully the size of the MH triggers it as a truck and there will be no follow up if someone looks at the photo and sees it a MH. On the other hand, maybe these things are handled by computer and would be sorted out on the reg number.

 

[Clarky]

I was flashed today on the N12 dual carriageway. Limit was 110kph clearly marked just before the camera and I was doing 90kph on cruise control and the speed had been steady for some time.

Hopefully the size of the MH triggers it as a truck and there will be no follow up if someone looks at the photo and sees it a MH. On the other hand, maybe these things are handled by computer and would be sorted out on the reg number.

Welcome to the club.
Don't think you will hear anything.
I've been flashed lots of times for going over 90kph on motorways. Camera thinks you are an HGV.

Richard.