Narcotic gas attacks.

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by savantuk, Aug 12, 2009.

  1. savantuk

    savantuk Read Only Funster

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    I'm wondering just how prevalent these have become, particularly on the continent - does anybody have any experience?? I have read of two or three incidents involving narcotic attacks, but they do seem to be few and far between. It's nearly time for my annual couple of months in Europe, and I'm wondering, should I be worried?

    As far as Narcotic attack alarms are concerned - do they work, or are some, as I suspect just butane/propane/CO2 alarms/hydrocarbon gas alarms rebadged as narcotic alarms?? I'm guessing that a proper 'Narcotic alarm' would have to be pretty sophisticated given the spectrum of noxious and poisonous gasses that could be used in an attack.
     
  2. 656

    656 Read Only Funster

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    Hi

    There are lots of posts on this, do a search and you will find out just what a can of worms this is.
     
  3. Douglas

    Douglas Read Only Funster

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    It pprobablyhas never hhappened

    I have never met anyone that can report first hand that they have had such an attack and it is my belief that it is an urban myth.

    I could be cynical and say that it was a rummer started by the manufacturers of the detectors to sell their product.
    Doug...
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
  4. scotjimland

    scotjimland Funster Life Member

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    Hi

    There is absolutely no documented evidence of anyone being robbed where gas was used .. no police or hospital reports, no victims statements and no dead bodies .. .. only 'a friend of a friend I knew' type stories that pop up with regularity and without proof..

    If anyone has such proof then let them show it now..

    jim
     
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  5. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    Happened to me three times last week. One minute I was just sipping a small glass of wine, next thing it's breakfast time. God know what they used, my head was terrible.

    Luck was on my side, nothing worth pinching or they were disturbed.

    It will happen again, I know, must get one of those alarms.
     
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  6. Pronto

    Pronto Read Only Funster

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  7. Jim

    Jim Ringleader

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    This text is lifted from the Motorhome Security Handbook.

    There cannot be many that have not heard the stories of
    motorhomers being gassed at French and Spanish motorway
    service stations. Stories spread rapidly, with more or less the
    same story being re-told. Often just the people and places change.
    We recall and spread these stories because they frighten us. The
    thought of being asleep in a motorhome at the mercy of an intruder
    while they rob us would fill anyone with dread.

    Waking up to discover that you have been robbed, and that the robber
    had to be right there in the motorhome with you, just defies all logic,
    How do you explain it? How was it possible to have been robbed
    without waking? However, we have heard stories that some people have been
    gassed and then robbed, so this is the only logical explanation; we were
    gassed too!

    Except it is not logical at all, how did the robbers get the gas into the
    motorhome? How did they know how much to put in? How did they
    ensure that all the occupants, no matter their differing body-weights,
    got just the right dose so as not to kill them? If this substance is easy
    to administer and leaves no after effects then why is it not used in
    medicine? Why do the crooks that possess this ‘wonder gas’ restrict its
    use to a few British holiday makers and the odd lorry driver?

    I think that people assume gas when there is no clear evidence. Maybe
    this is the right assumption to make, but in my professional opinion,
    based on the evidence I have seen to date, I think the gas explanation
    is used too quickly and without thinking it through. Thousands of
    people wake at home to find that they have been robbed, I have not
    heard it suggested that gas is used. Maybe it has.

    The fact is, we often do wake up, and there are hundreds of cases
    where motorhomers are woken by the sound of a thief trying to get
    in to their motorhome. It’s when we do not wake, that we start to
    suspect gas might have been used as some way of explanation.

    I have been a security professional most of my adult life, but I was
    once robbed in a hotel room while I slept. I am sure I wasn't gassed, I
    had drunk just a couple of glasses of wine, but that is the only defence
    I have. I had the mickey taken out of me for years by my team mates,
    how I wish the gas excuse was around then, I am sure I would have
    clung to it to save my blushes

    Maybe the police do the same; “Why didn't they wake? Maybe they
    were gassed!” It’s an easy explanation, case closed, crime number
    issued. As a security consultant in London I have known of countless
    hotels where whole corridors of rooms have been robbed without
    the occupants waking. The odd one or two that were woken or who
    weren’t asleep accepted a mumbled, “sorry wrong room.” On investigations
    no one thought gas was used, but it may as well have been, as
    tired or tipsy travellers once asleep will sleep through most things!
    The thing is, I suspect that we all sleep a little sounder than we
    think. We have all been asked, did you hear that thunder-storm last
    night?And we didn’t hear a thing. I have slept through the screams of
    my kids nightmares. In the Army I once took a rifle from a young
    sleeping soldier who should have been on guard, he wasn’t gassed,
    just very tired and sleeping soundly. Manyof you, like me I am sure,
    can get into bed with our partner without
    waking them, or they can sneak out of bed without waking you.
    Hopefully the thief isn't getting in bed with us, he is probably in the motorhome for
    less that 45 seconds and taking the wallet from the bedside table and
    your camera from the dinette.

    I think it is sad that people are put off travelling on the continent
    because of the fear of being gassed. The press and police are guilty of
    hyping the stories further by suggesting gassing without a shred of
    evidence to support the theory other than "if they didn't wake they
    must of been gassed"

    In September 2007 The Royal College of Anaesthetists released the a
    statement on their website, debunking the gassing stories. They are
    also of the opinion that this is a myth. However, you might be of the
    opinion that the Anaesthetists “would say that” How embarrassing for
    them if some oik with a can of “damp Start” can do what they trained
    years to learn!

    I personally think that the gassing stories are an urban myth. If any
    readers here are worried about the gassing then please do buy a
    detector if it makes you feel better, but be warned, if you are parked
    in a public place, where there is a good chance of being robbed, the
    comfort you derive from your detector might make you sleep a little
    too soundly, and then who knows what might happen!


    Their statement by the The Royal College of Anaesthetists is shown
    here. Have a read and judge for yourself.
    Despite the increasing numbers of reports of people being gassed in
    motor-homes or commercial trucks in France, and the warning put
    out by the Foreign Office for travellers to be aware of this danger, this
    College remains of the view that this is a myth.
    It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render
    someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the
    currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a
    motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at
    the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak
    anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on
    the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes
    some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application
    to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some
    sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous.
    The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the
    next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need
    to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas or by a large compressor.
    Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow
    siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs
    would be too expensive for the average thief to use.
    The other important point to remember is that general anaesthetics
    are potentially very dangerous, which is why they are only administered
    in the UK by doctors who have undergone many years of postgraduate
    training in the subject and who remain with the unconscious
    patient throughout the anaesthetic. Unsupervised patients are likely
    to die from obstruction of the airway by their tongues falling back. In
    the Moscow seige approximately 20% of the people died, many probably
    from airway obstruction directly related to the agent used.
    If there was a totally safe, odourless, potent, cheap anaesthetic agent
    available to thieves for this purpose it is likely the medical profession
    would know about it and be investigating its use in anaesthetic
    practice.
    13 Sep 2007
     
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  8. johnandcarol

    johnandcarol Deleted User

    The same reports were slipping around the HGV drivers when they chatted, normally told to drivers on their first trip abroad, by drivers who have never been!

    "They squirt some easystart up the night heater intake"............if they did that, theyd still be trying to put the flames out on themselves when you came out to piss on them!

    "They use dental gas to knock you out".............yup, they are ex dental anesthatists's driven to crime, so know how many people, their weight, and that of any animals...they know the cubic size of your interior, and how many vents are open..........:Eek!:

    I have NEVER, met a driver it has happened to personally, and in my years on recovery, have never been involved in repatriating a vehicle or passengers who have suffered this fate!


    Myself, i believe that a careless trucker who gets robbed, has woven a merry tale, as probably, have maybe the odd MH owner....but i doubt it.
    I have travelled in croatia/Slovenia/Italy/Naples and quite a few points in between, and as long as you take security seriously, I doubt you will have a problem.
    The most accurate scource of info, is the forum..........and its all factual info:thumb:
     
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  9. simsy56

    simsy56 Funster

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    Narcotic Gas!

    Oh Please!
    Where do these "robbers" get this narcotic gas in handy to carry containers? I have never met anyone who has been "gassed". But, plenty of people, who know someone, who knows someone who has been! Always third hand encounter.
    l imagine that these robbers go around dressed like Batman and Robin, with a utility belt full of "bat-gas" ready to rob all the motorhomes they come across. "No Robin", "lets not rob that bank, full of money", "Nor that jewelers, full of gems, worth millions", "lets save our bat-gas for unsuspecting motorhome owners, who may have a few quid, and the odd credit card, and we will worry about the rottweiler they may have, once we get in".
     
  10. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    excellent Jim.......

    now, any more 'snippets' from your book so we can copy, save and print thus not have to buy a copy....:Doh::Rofl1:
     
  11. robinmclaren

    robinmclaren Read Only Funster

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    police advised us about this

    while in france last week we pulled into a lovely airies on the main toll motorway from calais to paris and the police pulled in and advised us that we would be gassed and locks drilled and handed us a letter in diferent languages explaining this ( i think may still be in mh will check when back in it next week ) we were advised to move on to a services airies , my only thourght was to go back and sit in the woods with a crossbow and wait for them to arrive and put a bolt through their car , that should stop them doing at again ( would be so funny ) , a englishman has his castle and should protect it well ( even if it does have wheels ) , scum like that are just a waste of good air
    myth or not i will take care
     
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  12. Jim

    Jim Ringleader

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    at 160 pages and 50,000 words that would need a lot of "snippets" Its a lot easier to spend the £6.75:BigGrin:
     
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  13. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    good point Jim, you seen the price of printer ink lately:Rofl1:
     
  14. G4GMO

    G4GMO Read Only Funster

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    I am regularly exposed to gas attacks but no one has ever stolen anything. Note to Helen: You really must stop eating baked beans. :Rofl1: Thank heaven she doesn't read what I post.

    You can worry about all sorts of things but you do really have to look at things in perspective, the statistics of people who think they have been robbed by being gassed are very small. You have more chance of having an accident (so please be careful and I hope you don't) or being robbed when you are away from your caravanette (just for pappajohn :Laughing:) and again I hope you don't. Waiting for the screw driver in my neck :Rofl1:

    More to the point people who think they have been gassed and robbed may not realise quite how soundly they sleep.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
  15. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Grrrr!!!!!

    do you favour philips, pozi or flat blade?
     
  16. G4GMO

    G4GMO Read Only Funster

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    Oh flat is fine for me :Rofl1:
     
  17. madbluemad

    madbluemad

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    I remember watching a television programme were an ex burglar was being interviewed about his ciminal career so to speak. He said that very often when he was burgling somebodys house he would enter the beroom to find the occupants asleep.

    If they woke up he would give them a threatening look and tell them to go back to sleep and they always did. No gas required.

    Cheers
    Jim
    :Smile:
     
  18. Linda and Steph

    Linda and Steph Funster

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    That might be my fault, sorry.:Blush:

    I used to keep a booze monkey who, in the middle of the night, would nick all my money, kick me in the head and p**s in my mouth :Wink:

    I lost him some time ago, you must have picked him up somewhere :Doh: sorry :Laughing:
     
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  19. hilldweller

    hilldweller Funster Life Member

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    I think that come under "many a true word".

    To be serious, I have found 2 years of MHings as encouraged too much food and alcohol. It's just too easy, sat in the box, booze and snacks at arms length, little else to do but sit there in the evenings watching a DVD and indulging.

    And if you get near Funsters with 6 pack holders built into their chairs, well.......
     
  20. castalla

    castalla Read Only Funster

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    We spend a lot of time in Europe and the U.K. we have met lots of people with tales to tell but whenever i ask if they know the victim or have been told first hand by the victim, the answer is always no but! Blah Blah Blah!
    :shout::boxing:
     
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