More flexible hours for teachers ... Really? (1 Viewer)

[CWH]

My granddad worked 50 hours down the pit each week, for 40 years. Shall we make teachers do the same ?

They already work in the dark most of the time...

 

[Yorick]

Seems to me that you had kids and then expected that everyone else should be responsible for them (the school / the au pair) because you wanted / enjoyed the responsibility of your highly paid job?

Mr Nail meets Mr Hammer

 

[Yorick]

They already work in the dark most of the time...

So do teachers

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[Yorick]

I'd show this thread to my missus who has just retired after 20 years teaching, but it would have her spitting feathers

Far too many ignorant folk slagging off teachers.

And let's not forget that teachers and schools are not child-minders. They are your kids, deal with it.

 

[Gooney]

I saw the title of this thread and thought Oh no, here we go yet again!! The reason I say this is because over the 6 years I've been on this Forum teacher bashing regularly raises its misinformed head...this time though the majority of the posters seem to support the teachers efforts
In the past there has been posts from so many bandwagon jumpers all bleating on about all the time off, money for old rope etc. from people who don't know Jack.
When I see the time, dedication and effort that Teachers, my son and his wife included, it made me so angry.
This time there's a refreshing change to see support for their profession, long may it continue.

 

[CWH]

So do teachers

That's what I meant...

Endless changes imposed by:

a succession of Ministers for Education;
Ofsted criteria;
teacher standards;
Every Child Matters, Child Protection, Prevent, etc etc etc​

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[mariner]

My granddad worked 50 hours down the pit each week, for 40 years. Shall we make teachers do the same ?

Thought all the pits were closed!

 

[Paddywack]

Gerri you didn't go into the wrong career any more than I did, you did what you wanted to and loved and hopefully when you get better you will go back to it. After 30 years of working I wasn't earning £40k either and I too had a debt from my degree.

If you've worked for thirty years then you must be in some parallel universe to have debt from your degree - fees were introduced in 1998?

 

[Yorick]

Thought all the pits were closed!

he's not still working, silly

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[Yorick]

If you've worked for thirty years then you must be in some parallel universe to have debt from your degree - fees were introduced in 1998?

Sshh, don't let facts get in the way of a good rant

 

[Ockerron]

I'm still a bit confused as to what you're unhappy about Loren? Lots of employers have arrangements for flexible working for women returning from maternity leave. Why would it be wrong for teachers to have the same benefits? My best friend was able to come back part time after her children were born but her husband was on a higher income and they could afford it. Many can't afford part time work, including me though I dream about it! It's not as if it's going to come out of your pocket as a tax payer so why would you begrudge them? I can't see why you have singled out the teaching profession here, why shouldn't they have the same benefits as many professions in the private sector? I'm not trying to argue with you I'm just a bit confused as to your point.

 

[Ockerron]

If you've worked for thirty years then you must be in some parallel universe to have debt from your degree - fees were introduced in 1998?

Just to clarify I had no higher qualifications when I left the RAF so I went back to Uni as a mature student in 1997, working evenings in a bingo hall when Ron was home to look after our boys who were 2 and 3 at the time. I also worked Sunday's in the local museum to make it possible. Not saying I'm some kind of hero as nearly everyone I know did something similar but it did then grate when I went into teaching and two of my friends who started the same date as me had their student loans paid off and a 'golden hello' of £4,000 tax free sum because they taught 'shortage subjects' such as Design Technology and Maths and I taught RE! And yes, I'm still very p*ssed about it 12 years on, as I'm still paying out of my wages and that lump sum would have been very welcome! Lol, just typical of the way the Government regularly screw teachers over.

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[mariner]

he's not still working, silly

Sorry, I thought you wanted Teachers to work down the pit for 40 years!!

 

[Yorick]

Sorry, I thought you wanted Teachers to work down the pit for 40 years!!

 

[Allan & Loren]

If you've worked for thirty years then you must be in some parallel universe to have debt from your degree - fees were introduced in 1998?

I went to university aged 41 when I had to take a break from work to be a full timer carer for my mother who was dying from cancer. I did a degree to give me something to focus on in between the very difficult traumatic times until she passed away. I chose to do garden design as my mother and I had a huge love for gardens and she spent many hours looking through my designs and planting schemes which also helped her.

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[magicsurfbus]

Cheer up teacher bashers.

We have our government advocating free market thinking in education then whingeing about too many teachers exercising their free choice and leaving the job, whilst graduates choose freely not to train for it.
We have a growing child population demanding places in the schools of their first choice, but LEAs are being told they can't build any more schools - only Tory-approved 'free' schools are allowed to be built new.
We have Rottweiler-in-Chief Sir Michael Wilshaw advocating golden handcuffs to keep trainee teachers in British schools (and stop fleeing abroad) so he and his pack of OFSTED hounds can keep inspecting and data analysing them into oblivion.
We have schools filling up with low-cost 20 something trainees who quit after a few years exhausted whilst those over 45 are being driven into the ground and squeezed out to cut staffing costs.

Rejoice! Before too long there won't be any idle ineffective taxpayer superannuated whining teachers left to bash

 

[Paddywack]

I went to university aged 41 when I had to take a break from work to be a full timer carer for my mother who was dying from cancer. I did a degree to give me something to focus on in between the very difficult traumatic times until she passed away. I chose to do garden design as my mother and I had a huge love for gardens and she spent many hours looking through my designs and planting schemes which also helped her.

Isn't that flexible working?

And whilst I can admire you looking after your mother, it is something a lot of people do so there is no medals in it. I am a little surprised that you consider a debt generated from a degree in garden design (?), which by your own admission you undertook as a distraction, to be on a par with a debt someone has incurred doing a vocational qualification - something they needed to work as a teacher.

 

[Khizzie]

Not wanting to put too much emphasis on an earlier post by myself .but can I just reiterate " a university degree in teaching dors not automatically make you a teacher" it's a special skill to be able to impart knowledge to students that they can enjoy as well as learn ..and if you have those skills you should be paid accordingly Roy

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[Allan & Loren]

Isn't that flexible working?

And whilst I can admire you looking after your mother, it is something a lot of people do so there is no medals in it. I am a little surprised that you consider a debt generated from a degree in garden design (?), which by your own admission you undertook as a distraction, to be on a par with a debt someone has incurred doing a vocational qualification - something they needed to work as a teacher.

no not flexible working as I resigned with no option to keep my job open. I'm not looking for medals as you so rudely put it and am not unique in caring for relatives just trying to explain to you why I had a university debt which you queried and despite it not being a vacational qualification it is still classed as a debt that needed to be paid back.

 

[CWH]

Why is it that so often on this forum, when somebody expresses an opinion and then uses a personal example to explain why they hold that opinion, that they then have to spend the rest of the day defending themselves rather than defending their opinion? That's not 'debate' as I understand it.

 

[Rapido925M]

... However I do think flexible working is a way forward as long as it is done sensibly .i introduced it many years ago in a business where I had many ladies and men working for me and had lots of issues with absenteeism until flexitime was introduce .result better production happier workforce and less absenteeism..thats my take on the whole of this issue ..Roy

I could make a lot of comments about some of the things in this thread (eg mainstream teachers have never been Government employees but LEA employees, Christmas shopping was never offered to me in 40y of teaching, etc) BUT I want to focus on "flexible". My daughter has to be at her desk between 10am and 3pm and can choose how to do her other hours. THAT is not what is being talked about.

As Head of Department I've had inputs to timetables for many part-time staff: no-one has wanted to work for 1h per day, few have been happy to work Mon/Wed/Fri, few have wanted to be on the premises from 11am to 2pm but have 1h for lunch (unpaid). Whereas many businesses might be able to have varied staff numbers at different times of the day, schools need to educate exactly the same number of pupils for exactly the length of the day: there is no room for flexibility.

So, AFAIK, flexibility means looking at what suits the potential employees and, somehow, fitting the rest of the staffing around it. Obviously, there would need to be compromises on all sides, but the thing which would be reasonably inflexible would be the hours worked by the pupils (I know some schools knock off an hour early on Friday, but that hour has to be made up somewhere else).

And as several have commented (and the report implies) non-working teachers cannot be forced to be in the classroom: they have to be attracted. Surely everyone appreciates that getting skilled professionals contributing to their maximum is something to be applauded. I suspect that detractors from this scheme may have preconceptions which are preventing them from seeing what is being suggested. - Gordon

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[32143]

My understanding of the flexible working referenced is it's the type you sign up to, generally an option available to many local and centrally employed government employees, it's not a bit of give and take as and when you need it, but something you choose to opt in or out. I has a clerk who didn't want to be on flexible working as she knew she would create problems for herself as it allowed you to go into dept with hours, at her level doing set hours wasn't a problem and she preferred that routine. But those who did flexi had to sign an agreement same as I did.
It would seem that it's being used for teachers to address an imbalance of male female teachers, and would be interesting to see how many males opt into it.
It is an unfortunate fact in all areas of work, women have children, and for some they then don't want to continue working, which is there right and perfectly acceptable. What isn't is acceptable is those that continue the pretence they will return to work all the way through pregnancy and maternity leave, then return for one day and then hand their notice in. It gives the impression females are being forced into leaving the profession when it may not be the case.
Perhaps they need to attract more male teachers?

 

[Khizzie]

Cheer up teacher bashers.

We have our government advocating free market thinking in education then whingeing about too many teachers exercising their free choice and leaving the job, whilst graduates choose freely not to train for it.
We have a growing child population demanding places in the schools of their first choice, but LEAs are being told they can't build any more schools - only Tory-approved 'free' schools are allowed to be built new.


We have Rottweiler-in-Chief Sir Michael Wilshaw advocating golden handcuffs to keep trainee teachers in British schools (and stop fleeing abroad) so he and his pack of OFSTED hounds can keep inspecting and data analysing them into oblivion.
We have schools filling up with low-cost 20 something trainees who quit after a few years exhausted whilst those over 45 are being driven into the ground and squeezed out to cut staffing costs.

Rejoice! Before too long there won't be any idle ineffective taxpayer superannuated whining teachers left to bash

Bonus then .??

 

[jemhorn]

Been following this thread and it should really be broadened from just teaching. No matter what profession, we need to have the best people in the job. More flexible working conditions may be a way to achieve that. We should embrace this idea as no doubt we all want our children and grandchildren be educated by the best people. We should also be happy that people go into teaching after other careers, no doubt their experience elsewhere will enhance their teaching skills and perhaps broaden their pupil's expectations.

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[grumps147]

Interesting political background to this.

The report was written by an extremely right wing think tank used by the government to 'suggest' radical reform changes in many areas of national and local government, the Policy Exchange.

What they say when you look at it makes sense in cost/benefit terms. Even more surprising so far, the teaching unions seem to be supportive.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35718553

 

[DBK]

What they say when you look at it makes sense in cost/benefit terms. Even more surprising so far, the teaching unions seem to be supportive.

Now that's something I wouldn't have expected!

 

[Paddywack]

Now that's something I wouldn't have expected!

Why, the unions recognise that more need to be tempted back into the profession to ease the workload on their members, in primary schools in the UK more than 100,000 infants are being taught in classes larger than the statutory maximum.

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[Yorick]

Why is it that so often on this forum, when somebody expresses an opinion and then uses a personal example to explain why they hold that opinion, that they then have to spend the rest of the day defending themselves rather than defending their opinion? That's not 'debate' as I understand it.

This is the internet and logic goes out the window

 

[Khizzie]

Now that's something I wouldn't have expected!

Why not,makes sense,the more teachers you have /retain/ recruit the more paying union members you have ,the more cash goes into union coffers. Or am I just being a tad cynical.??

 

[magicsurfbus]

Now that's something I wouldn't have expected!

1. Where do Teaching Unions get their money from? Member subscriptions.
2. What do they want? More members so they can have more subscription money.
3. How have they been recruiting more members? By allowing unqualified school support staff to become members.
4. Have they been supporting long-serving qualified members who were losing work to these new unqualified members? No chance, see 1. above.

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