Licence and Braking Requirements for a Fifth Wheel

Discussion in 'Fifth Wheelers' started by moandick, Apr 6, 2008.

  1. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

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    First post on this forum so here goes

    I have a Cedar Creek fifth wheeler with a 3500 tow truck.......

    If I import it back to the UK I would be interested in the driving licence needed ie would I need an hgv class 1 or whatever they call it now,and how do I cover the braking and parking brake needed for UK trailers.

    Ian & Doreen

    I have pointed Ian and Doreen to the DVLA Licence requirements in a different thread BUT I know little or nothing about the brake requirements.

    Can any 5'er owners help out here?

    (Ian's first post was originally on the American Insurance thread.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2008
  2. Sundowners

    Sundowners Funster Life Member

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    The electric brakes are completely legal on a fifth wheel camper, provided of course that the sensor is fitted to the truck, (or trailer). To comply exactly to the letter of the law, you need a parking brake. These actually seem quite rare, but stt do a back plate conversion kit to fit a cable opperated parking brake.

    Nigel
     
  3. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

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    In answer to the queries I think you will find that Cedars would not be legal on a normal driving licence in the UK because I believe they are over 7ft 6ins wide (8ft?) and I fear a class 1 licence would be required, however it would only be the width that restricts it and not the weight (odd I know).

    I know Lazydays well having been there but they don't seem to know (or care) about UK restrictions on this type of rig (they are a sales operation) but rules are rules and 7' 6" is the max under the Road Traffic Regulations.(for a car licence)

    Brakes - Electric brakes are fine as long as the Train weight is not exceded and they are connected to the vehicle braking system (usually via the tow vehicle brake switch)

    My unit was purchased in the UK and has a manual handbrake fitted (as much use as the Popes Parts & I never use it) which does comply with the regs.

    Insurance - Camptons in the UK are about the best for Insurance as my rig costs £430 a year fully comprehensive for Pick-up and Trailer (they class it as a Motorhome) a survey from Niche Marketing where I bought the unit confirms this.

    My wife and I have studied 5'ers for the last ten years but only taken the plunge in 2006, since then and, after experiencing Caravaning, its worth it whatever the cost!

    Hope this helps

    Come back if you need more.
    Regards
    Malcolm
     
  4. IanH

    IanH Read Only Funster

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    Dick
    The Cedar is 8ft without awnings etc,the GVW is 6291 kg
    The Dodge is GVW 5217 kg

    I was always under the impression i would need a class 1,although i got no intention of importing it at the moment you never know.

    I dont think there is a dealer who cares or know about UK regs,we have used Lazydays and the same salesman for all our purchases.They just seem to have what we wanted each time.

    Nice to hear that electric brakes ar legal and i can only imagine what the hand brake would be like,been there with twin wheel conversions on recovery trucks using trailer axles,we used a stick between the seat and brake pedal,the nightmare was MOT time.

    Having had an A class,Travel trailer and now a 5th wheel ,this suits us the best and this has got to be the final purchase.Once i find how to reduce photos i will post a few

    Ian & Doreen sitting here under the awning and the rain is pouring it down:thumb:
     
  5. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

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    Hi Ian

    I knew the funsters would come up with the answers to your questions - they are a very knowledgable and helpful set of people - can't understand why they put up with me because I test their knowledge regularly. :Doh:

    As the others have said - you are definitely in the Class 1 HGV area or in modern terms a C+E licence - and it would appear your brakes are legal but you need some form of handbrake - easy-peasy :thumb:

    I notice you are sitting in the rain in Cornwall USA - whilst I am sitting in the snow in Cornwall UK - it's a funny old world, ain't it? :Eeek:

    Have fun, Ian and keep us in touch with you travels :Cool::Cool:
     
  6. IanH

    IanH Read Only Funster

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    Hey Dick

    our rain is warm ,we are stll in Florida and we still got 3 weeks.
    Not looking forward to going home to snow,but 6 months from home is enough for me on this trip.
     
  7. Safetyman

    Safetyman Read Only Funster

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    Hi Ian & Doreen
    Further to Mo and Dicks mail your train weight is around 5 tons and although an ordinary car licence entitles you to 7.5 tons gross, its still the 8 foot restriction that buggers it up, if it was me I'd stay where you are and put up with the warm rain!
    Malc
     
  8. IanH

    IanH Read Only Funster

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    Hi Malc
    i have a C1E licence and drive trucks when im'e back in the UK ,its the code 107 that limits trailers to 750kg that put the spanner in the works .

    I only wish i could afford to stay here but like most others i got to come back home to earn a few pounds to do it all again next winter
    Ian
     
  9. algill

    algill Funster

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    5th wheel parking brake

    Trying to check out what we need to do to put a parking brake on our fiver.

    Sundowner - who are stt please?
     
  10. moandick

    moandick Read Only Funster

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    The STT Group

    The STT Group - UK suppliers of American 5th Wheels and Trailers.

    Click <Here> for their web site.

    Speak to Mark Wingate.
     
  11. derek h

    derek h Read Only Funster

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    Re the 7ft 6in issue
    I've not idea how to bring this thread over onto this one. I'm willing to bet someone can. Meanwhile look on
    "American Rv " forum (immediately above this forum )
    Click
    "Width may no longer be an issue any more" thread.

    Discuss:thumb:

    Your thoughts, as always welcome:Wink:
     
  12. kayzee bounder

    kayzee bounder Deleted User

    Hope this helps.


    Hello, hope this might prove useful, i have a K-Z montego Bay 36' 5th wheeler that i tow with a dodge Ram 3500 "Dooley", total weight combined is about 6 tons which is under the 7.5 ton limit for standard licence holders who took their tests before 1999 (i think). Any trailer over 750kgs in the U.K must have braking, mine has the electric system which takes a few minutes to get used to but is fine. A trailer here doesn't undergo an M.O.T. unless it is operated under LGV or PCV rules (commercial use) and many people confuse articulated vehicles with Goods or passenger carrying vehicles when it comes to licence's. If your vehicle is private, not not used for hire & reward, not a fare paying passenger vehicle and is under 7.5 tons gross weight with the trailer exceeding 750 kgs but having a fully operating braking system then you can driver it on a standard licence, it does help if you were formally a lorry driver though to get used to the bendy bit :thumb:
     
  13. TJ-RV

    TJ-RV Deleted User

  14. MammaLL

    MammaLL Deleted User

    length???

    I posted a query in another thread but this is very interesting, particularly the draft increase in width. I was told on another forum that there was a limit in maximum length of a fifth wheel to 7 metres? I am guessing this isnt the case seeing as kayzee has a 37' rig?

    And does anyone have problems with sites accepting such a big trailer in the uk?

    Thanks
     
  15. Tony Hunt

    Tony Hunt Read Only Funster

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    You dont mention in the above post the maximum width allowed to drive on a car licence, yours is clearly over 7ft 6". People importing RVs have to keep under 101 inches ( I think) but can drive them on a pre 1997 car licence if they are under 7.5 tonnes so why has a fifth wheeler got to be under 7ft 6"? 101" is 8ft 5"
     
  16. kayzee bounder

    kayzee bounder Deleted User

    width.

    Interesting point you've made there Tony and i don't know the answer, i know there were some restrictions placed on R.V's and R.T's regarding width but that seemed more to do with importing than road law. I was under the impression that those restrictions had been dropped but i say that without any form of official reference to quote....time for a bit of research it seem's :Wink:
     
  17. IanRS

    IanRS Read Only Funster

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    Hi Ian Ive been reading this thread as a guest with great interest (prompting me to register on this site) and the laws in this country are to say the least difficult to understand but I'm confused by your comment about "code 107 limiting you to 750kg" according to the booklet that came back with my licence code 107 states "not more than 8250kg" I passed my test back in 1963 and my HGV1 in 1979 which is before the change in 1997 limiting towing trailers over 750kg. Hope you dont think I'm trying to be a smart newby just confused by your comments.

    Regards another Ian
     
  18. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    hi Ian,

    firstly...welcome to the FUN !

    i think what ian is getting at is if he drives an RV or a truck at 7.5 tonnes he can only drag a trailer weighing 750kg making a total train of 8250kg....the limit of a C1E licence.
    i think if he drove a 6 tonne RV he could drag a 2225kg trailer, again making a train of 8250kg

    could be wrong on the last bit though :Doh:as i could be wrong saying a post '97 pass driver cant tow ANY trailer until an extra trailer test has been passed. then i beleive the max train is 12000kg

    cheers

    john.
     
  19. IanRS

    IanRS Read Only Funster

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    Hi John thanks for the welcome I find these forums good to exchange info and indeed learn from other peoples experiences, from Jan 1st 1997 anyone passing their test in a car was limited to towing a trailer up to 750kg this could catch out people who tow horse/pony trailers, I know my daughter in law would need to pass another test to tow my trailer.

    Regards Ian
     
  20. robrobc

    robrobc Read Only Funster

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    Hi All I thought I would just chuck in my opinions, and some facts.

    I too was getting very confused with regard to what can and cannot be legally towed on a standrad driving licence, and also what the Ministry considered to be MAM (Maximum Allowable Mass). So I wrote to them, and guess what I got a response by email. So I quote

    Dear Mr C?????
    The maximum weight of a vehicle is the maximum weight of the Unit when it is fully loaded, and this includes fuel, passengers, allowable load etc etc. The maximum weight of this Unit, or Units must not exceed the MAM allowable for the individual licence holder.

    So does that mean that the MAM is the GCWR for the Unit or Units, if it does then this is going to be quite different to the curb weight or dry weight, something that I think may have been used by some 5'ers.

    Hmmmmm Food for thought.
     
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