Increased VED for PLG Motorhomes (1 Viewer)

[Speve]

Just received an email from Dolphin Motorhomes with info on tax increase for PLGs Interestingly PHGs not affected.
A very large increase for lighter vans indeed.

 

[Larrynwin]

That will really help sales of new vans

 

[Langtoftlad]

3 page thread here:
https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...e-tax-costs-1st-sep-2019.201422/#post-3425650
and a shorter one here;
https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/motorhome-ved.201640/#post-3428785

 

[Deneb]

I've just posted some new information to the first linked thread in Langtoftlad 's response

New Motorhome Tax Costs? - 1st Sep 2019

This provisionally sounds as if it will only be relevant to the new 6D engines. It'll be interesting to see what happens when the first of the Funsters buys one.

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[pappajohn]

How many times....... Look on your V5.
Your car is PLG
Your van is PLG
Your motorhome is PLG

ANYTHING UNDER 3500KG IS ALREADY PLG.

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[DavidG58]

How many times....... Look on your V5.
Your car is PLG
Your van is PLG
Your motorhome is PLG

ANYTHING UNDER 3500KG IS ALREADY PLG.

What about the ones that are PHGV?

 

[pappajohn]

What about the ones that are PHGV?

They are not under 3500kg

 

[Deneb]

How many times....... Look on your V5.
Your car is PLG
Your van is PLG
Your motorhome is PLG

ANYTHING UNDER 3500KG IS ALREADY PLG.

How many times...

PLG tax band relates to vehicles first registered before 1st March 2001. It is only used as a catch-all for motorhomes that cannot be slotted into post 1st March 2001 emissions related tax bands because they do not have a CO2 figure stated on the final stage CoC.

Cars and light goods vehicles registered after 1st March 2001 but before 1st April 2017 are taxed as Petrol Car (band TC48), Diesel Car (TC49) or Alternative Fuel Car (TC59). Their annual tax rates can currently range from £0 to £570 a year depending on their stated CO2 emissions. THEY ARE NOT PLG!!!!!

Cars and light goods vehicles first registered on or after 1st April 2017 are also subject to the same tax bands as 2001 to 2017 vehicles BUT their tax rates are from £0 to £2,135 a year for the first 12 months from date of registration depending on stated emissions. In addition, any vehicle with a list price over £40,000 has to pay between £320 and £465 a year tax for years 2, 3, 4 and 5. THEY ARE NOT PLG EITHER!!!!!

Motorhomes first registered on or after 1st April 2017 are also subject to the same higher rates of tax if they have a CO2 figure stated on their final stage CoC. The only vehicles currently affected by this are some Volkswagen Camper Vans which are built as such by Volkswagen and therefore not subject to a multi-stage build process and have been allocated a CO2 figure by the manufacturer. THEY ARE NOT PLG EITHER!!!!!

When the government decides to tax vehicles based on the new WLTP testing procedures, then new Motorhomes first registered from the set date will likely be subject to tax at the same rate as cars and light goods vehicles in the then relevant emissions related tax band. That will only apply to new vehicles first registered from the inception date BUT THEY WILL NOT BE PLG EITHER!!!!!

The question is if, when in the interim WLTP CO2 figures begin to appear on final stage CoCs for new Euro 6D/Temp motorhomes, the DVLA will tax them under the Diesel Car emissions related tax bands as they have been required by current legislation to do since 1st April 2017.

But whatever happens THE ONLY VEHICLES that are taxed in the PLG band are cars and light goods vehicles first registered before 1st March 2001, and motorhomes or other multi-stage build vehicles first registered after that date to present IF AND ONLY IF they do not have a CO2 figure stated on their final stage CoC.

You either don't have a car or light goods vehicle registered after 1st March 2001 or you haven't looked on your own V5!

 

[pappajohn]

How many times...

PLG tax band relates to vehicles first registered before 1st March 2001. It is only used as a catch-all for motorhomes that cannot be slotted into post 1st March 2001 emissions related tax bands because they do not have a CO2 figure stated on the final stage CoC.

Cars and light goods vehicles registered after 1st March 2001 but before 1st April 2017 are taxed as Petrol Car (band TC48), Diesel Car (TC49) or Alternative Fuel Car (TC59). Their annual tax rates can currently range from £0 to £570 a year depending on their stated CO2 emissions. THEY ARE NOT PLG!!!!!

Cars and light goods vehicles first registered on or after 1st April 2017 are also subject to the same tax bands as 2001 to 2017 vehicles BUT their tax rates are from £0 to £2,135 a year for the first 12 months from date of registration depending on stated emissions. In addition, any vehicle with a list price over £40,000 has to pay between £320 and £465 a year tax for years 2, 3, 4 and 5. THEY ARE NOT PLG EITHER!!!!!

Motorhomes first registered on or after 1st April 2017 are also subject to the same higher rates of tax if they have a CO2 figure stated on their final stage CoC. The only vehicles currently affected by this are some Volkswagen Camper Vans which are built as such by Volkswagen and therefore not subject to a multi-stage build process and have been allocated a CO2 figure by the manufacturer. THEY ARE NOT PLG EITHER!!!!!

When the government decides to tax vehicles based on the new WLTP testing procedures, then new Motorhomes first registered from the set date will likely be subject to tax at the same rate as cars and light goods vehicles in the then relevant emissions related tax band. That will only apply to new vehicles first registered from the inception date BUT THEY WILL NOT BE PLG EITHER!!!!!

The question is if, when in the interim WLTP CO2 figures begin to appear on final stage CoCs for new Euro 6D/Temp motorhomes, the DVLA will tax them under the Diesel Car emissions related tax bands as they have been required by current legislation to do since 1st April 2017.

But whatever happens THE ONLY VEHICLES that are taxed in the PLG band are cars and light goods vehicles first registered before 1st March 2001, and motorhomes or other multi-stage build vehicles first registered after that date to present IF AND ONLY IF they do not have a CO2 figure stated on their final stage CoC.

You either don't have a car or light goods vehicle registered after 1st March 2001 or you haven't looked on your own V5!

My apologies, I am wrong.
I shall beat myself to a to death with a willow branch then beat myself some more.
I must admit I haven't looked at a V5 for donkeys years.
I have four V5s... Two state PLGs and two state diesel car.

Now I'm going to see how much blood I can lose before passing out.

 

[fairford rambler]

Hi everyone

there is a petition, that we can and all should sign, which might just persuade Boris and the Government to drop this VED increase for new motorhomes to tax them as luxury cars. At present there are over six thousand signatures and it needs to get to ten before it can be looked at by the Government. The petition is called Stop Increases In Road Tax For Motorhomes. I'm sure a web search will lead you to the petition. If not The Government website has it. We should surely all sign this petition. Time is running out and there are still people who do not know about this increase, I have only just found out myself. Below is a quote, not from me might I add.

"Under new finance bill plans that could be introduced in the autumn,
the special tax code that applies to new Motorhomes will become taxed as a car,
rather than a commercial vehicle for Vehicle Excise Duty (VED).
This will mean the VED will increase from £265 to £2,315
while annual tax costs would also be higher for the first five years of the vehicle’s life"

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[Deneb]

Hi everyone

there is a petition, that we can and all should sign, which might just persuade Boris and the Government to drop this VED increase for new motorhomes to tax them as luxury cars. At present there are over six thousand signatures and it needs to get to ten before it can be looked at by the Government. The petition is called Stop Increases In Road Tax For Motorhomes. I'm sure a web search will lead you to the petition. If not The Government website has it. We should surely all sign this petition. Time is running out and there are still people who do not know about this increase, I have only just found out myself. Below is a quote, not from me might I add.

"Under new finance bill plans that could be introduced in the autumn,
the special tax code that applies to new Motorhomes will become taxed as a car,
rather than a commercial vehicle for Vehicle Excise Duty (VED).
This will mean the VED will increase from £265 to £2,315
while annual tax costs would also be higher for the first five years of the vehicle’s life"

There is no "new tax" for motorhomes and it has nothing to do with the Finance Bill. What is happening is that with the introduction of Euro 6D and Worldwide light Vehicle Testing (brought about by the VW scandal) the inclusion of emissions data on new vehicles means that they will be taxed according to current tax bands, instead of the anomaly that has existed for the last 18 years that has allowed motorhomes (because of the way they are constructed) to be taxed in a band actually meant only for vehicles registered prior to 2001.

HM Treasury have declined to exempt motorhomes from being treated the same as any other new vehicles.

Sign away if you like, but think about what could happen if you draw attention of the current anomaly to a politician who considers that unfair, or another method of getting more tax, and ends up with higher tax rates for all the motorhomes that are currently taxed as PLG and will hopefully continue to be as long as no-one puts their foot in it.

 

[fairford rambler]

As I said the quote was not from me. This is it in black and white. do you dispute this is it wrong?

We are urging our customers and friends to join a petition asking the UK government to reconsider plans to tax new motorhomes as cars, rather than as private/light good vehicles. Motorhomes are built using a commercial vehicle chassis and engine. Manufacturers then convert these vehicles into motorhomes and because of this, they are currently taxed as private light or heavy good vehicles. Under new finance bill plans that could be introduced in the autumn, the special tax code that applies to new Motorhomes will become taxed as a car, rather than a commercial vehicle for Vehicle Excise Duty (VED). This will mean the VED will increase from £265 to £2,315 while annual tax costs would also be higher for the first five years of the vehicle’s life. Mike Graves - MD of Southern Motorhomes said “We are really concerned about the proposal to classify new motorhomes as cars for taxation purposes - “This is a massive and disproportionate increase in the purchase and running costs of a new motorhome that typically do very little mileage compared to other vehicles". “It’s already a challenging time for the industry as poor exchange rates exert significant upward pressure on new motorhome prices. This change forces up prices even further and ultimately will serve to deter people from buying newer, more environmentally-friendly motorhomes – defeating the purpose of the bill which is to supposed to encourage the take up of more efficient engines.”​

Join the Petition ​

 

[Pausim]

This is it in black and white. do you dispute this is it wrong?

It is not a matter of whether it is right or wrong. It is more a matter of whether it is reasonable or sensible to sign a petition that says motorhomes should be cheaper to tax than cars. The wider motoring public will have no sympathy for either us or the dealers. We are not being discriminated against, just being brought into line. Yes it is a shame we are losing this privilege but it is hardly surprising that the tax loophole is being closed now that the CO2 information will be available.

 

[PeteH]

Regarding what is a PLG?.

My 2007 Rapido, was ORIGINALLY classed on the V5 as PLG. It was recategorised as a PHGV when uprated to 3,75t.

I have just pulled up the copy of the V5 to check.

 

[The Wino]

Hi everyone

there is a petition, that we can and all should sign, which might just persuade Boris and the Government to drop this VED increase for new motorhomes to tax them as luxury cars. At present there are over six thousand signatures and it needs to get to ten before it can be looked at by the Government. The petition is called Stop Increases In Road Tax For Motorhomes. I'm sure a web search will lead you to the petition. If not The Government website has it. We should surely all sign this petition. Time is running out and there are still people who do not know about this increase, I have only just found out myself. Below is a quote, not from me might I add.

"Under new finance bill plans that could be introduced in the autumn,
the special tax code that applies to new Motorhomes will become taxed as a car,
rather than a commercial vehicle for Vehicle Excise Duty (VED).
This will mean the VED will increase from £265 to £2,315
while annual tax costs would also be higher for the first five years of the vehicle’s life"

How many votes are in it? I think its probably a waste of time and I bet Boris will blame it on someone else if theres any bad publicity lets see. I wonder how long it will take for PHG rates to increase to simlar levels it would be very strange if they didn't

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[fairford rambler]

How many votes are in it? I think its probably a waste of time and I bet Boris will blame it on someone else if theres any bad publicity lets see. I wonder how long it will take for PHG rates to increase to simlar levels it would be very strange if they didn't

There are 6520 as of to day and last look at 13.00. At 11.00 there were 6147!

 

[Deneb]

As I said the quote was not from me. This is it in black and white. do you dispute this is it wrong?

​

We are urging our customers and friends to join a petition asking the UK government to reconsider plans to tax new motorhomes as cars, rather than as private/light good vehicles. Motorhomes are built using a commercial vehicle chassis and engine. Manufacturers then convert these vehicles into motorhomes and because of this, they are currently taxed as private light or heavy good vehicles. Under new finance bill plans that could be introduced in the autumn, the special tax code that applies to new Motorhomes will become taxed as a car, rather than a commercial vehicle for Vehicle Excise Duty (VED). This will mean the VED will increase from £265 to £2,315 while annual tax costs would also be higher for the first five years of the vehicle’s life. Mike Graves - MD of Southern Motorhomes said “We are really concerned about the proposal to classify new motorhomes as cars for taxation purposes - “This is a massive and disproportionate increase in the purchase and running costs of a new motorhome that typically do very little mileage compared to other vehicles". “It’s already a challenging time for the industry as poor exchange rates exert significant upward pressure on new motorhome prices. This change forces up prices even further and ultimately will serve to deter people from buying newer, more environmentally-friendly motorhomes – defeating the purpose of the bill which is to supposed to encourage the take up of more efficient engines.”​

​

​ Join the Petition​

There appears to be an element of pressure selling in the version of the "facts" being circulated by at least some motorhome dealers, who possibly see an opportunity to create additional sales of existing stock before the change happens by panicking prospective customers into acting now.

Perhaps you believe that everything you see in black and white is always correct. That must be difficult to reconcile if you read different newspapers!

If you want to read the facts, look at EU Regulation 2018/1832, the HM Treasury document "Review of WLTP and Vehicle Taxes, summary of responses, June 2019" in which the HM Government position is stated in Chapter 3, and Parliamentary Briefing Paper CBP8639 - although the latter does seem to have been prepared in a hurry and possibly in itself not as thoroughly researched as one would have hoped.

The trade seems to claim that the tax will increase £2,315, whereas that is a one-off first year charge and will also depend on the list price of the vehicle. The annual charge will vary depending on the stated emissions of the vehicle concerned according to WLTP figures and will almost certainly vary according to the type of van. For instance PVCs and motorhomes with a frontal area not exceeding the frontal area of the base vehicle from which they are derived by more than a specific margin will be allowed to assume the CO2 figure of the vehicle from which they have been converted. Those that exceed the allowance will have to be subject to their own WLTP model testing by the motorhome manufacturer or converter. After the first 5 years, the "new" tax rates are currently actually lower than the PLG rate.

The first year tax could also be higher, but that would depend on any alterations to tax rates and bandings implemented next year in the usual annual review, which will also have to take into account the move to WLTP emissions figures for all light vehicles.

Some dealers (but not all) claim it will affect any new van bought from 1st September, whereas existing pre Euro 6D stock and vehicles having a MPW above 3500kg will not be affected at all.

HM Treasury have stated that although WLTP emissions figures will appear on type approvals and CoCs from 1st September, they should not be used to determine tax bands until 6th April 2020 at the earliest. Where that leaves Euro 6D motorhomes registered between 1st September and the proposed April 2020 implementation date I do not know, but if HM Treasury have stated that the (WLTP) figures on the CoCs of those vehicles should not be used at that time, possibly they will still be slotted into the old PLG rate.

I assume this is where the erroneous reference to the Finance Act comes from, as no doubt the Petrol and Diesel Car tax bands will be realigned in or shortly after April to bring them into line with the WLTP derived figures, which for existing vehicles are expected to be up to 25% higher than those calculated from the current testing regime.

It is always reassuring to see that petitions are created by someone who has thoroughly researched the subject, and signed by people who understand what they are petitioning against!

 

[Pausim]

Perhaps some dealers are getting nervous because they are holding too many unregistered vehicles without 6D engines. According to my dealer the derogation that allows the registration of 6B and 6C engines after 01/09/19 is not unlimited in either time or numbers. Each manufacturer has been allowed a specific number of vehicles that can be registered after the cut off date, presumably so that they can phase in the new engines without allowing them to deliberately flood the market with the old ones. If the vin number does not appear on the manufacturers list of exempted vehicles the dealer will have to apply to the manufacturer to have it added.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

How the bloody hell is this Boris’ fault.......turn around and bend over so we can hear you better

 

[Deneb]

How the bloody hell is this Boris’ fault.......turn around and bend over so we can hear you better

The man has some influence. I was reading a document earlier which indicates that there is, or is proposed to be, a 10,500 euro charge to register the highest polluting new vehicles in France. Perhaps Boris could sort out the commercialisation of and charging for aires de camping car as well? Maybe I'll start a petition

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[The Wino]

How the bloody hell is this Boris’ fault.......turn around and bend over so we can hear you better

Who said it was Boris' fault but he will have the biggest influence on whether anything changes about the new proposed rates of VED who else is the petition aimed at other than the gov.of which he is the leader? Maybe you are getting a bit overprotective or touchy?

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Eh?

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Post #10 suggests its Boris and this government

 

[The Wino]

Post #10 suggests its Boris and this government

The post says they are supporting a petition to Boris. As he is pm who elses fault do you think it is if ved goes up?

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Its not his fault, this has been coming for nearly 2 years with the whole industry face down in a bucket of sand

If one signs this petition NOTHING positive for MH owners will come of it

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[Pausim]

I don’t normally leap to defend Boris but even I can’t blame him for a VED system that was announced in 2016 and introduced in April 2017. In my opinion the petition is a waste of time, all that has changed is that the CO2 figures that were previously missing from motorhome certificates will start appearing from 01/09/2019. If we want under 3500kg motorhomes to be treated as cars then we have to expect to pay the same VED as a car.

There is probably as much to be lost here as gained. For instance motorhomes over 3500kg get away with car type MoTs but the equivalent horse box with living accommodation has to pass the stricter lorry one. Why waste time on a cause that was argued and lost by the vastly larger car industry two years ago. Did you sign a petition then? Are we really in a position to whinge about some extra costs on a luxury item?

 

[Deneb]

VED isn't going up. What is happening is that CO2 figures will have to be stated on Euro 6D engines vehicles and they will be allocated to the same tax band that they would have been taxed under since 2001 if a CO2 figure was stated previously. The fact that most motorhomes were allowed to not have a stated CO2 figure previously doesn't mean that VED has gone up. We are not being unfairly penalised, rather we have managed to get away with a situation that just happened to be to our benefit up until now, but the "loophole" is being closed due to the general tightening of emissions standards.

Ask someone who drives a motor car (which a motorhome under 3500kg MGW is in the legal definition) and pays no VED in the current tax bands if they would rather be taxed as PLG and I doubt you would get any positive answers!

Edit: Pausim beat me to it!

 

[gus-lopez]

and vehicles having a MPW above 3500kg will not be affected at all.

So, ALL dealers uplate to +3,5T sell as PHg ( none of them are interested now whether anyone has a licence to drive them ) then once registered down plate.
No different than registeringa at the new 2k rate first year then uprating to +3,5T so lower rate applies.

How the bloody hell is this Boris’ fault.......turn around and bend over so we can hear you better

As with anything the blame always lies at the door of whoever is ultimately in charge.

In all honesty, personally Id never buy a vehicle of any sort where the tax rate has been artificially increased to allow for the profligate politicians. If everyone refused to do so then they'd soon get the message.

 

[Deneb]

In all honesty, personally Id never buy a vehicle of any sort where the tax rate has been artificially increased to allow for the profligate politicians. If everyone refused to do so then they'd soon get the message.

The message being that the decision to impose additional tax on certain larger, more expensive and higher emission vehicles to discourage people from buying them actually worked. That might encourage them to extend it further!