For the mechanics amongst you

Discussion in 'Fiat' started by Snowbird, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    I have a friend here with an elderly Fiat 2.5 turbo diesel who asked me a question this morning that am having problems answering.
    He tells me that his camper will go into gear OK when cold but when its been working all day he has difficulty selecting 1st and reverse gear. Its as though the clutch is not operating. If he switches the engine off he can then select 1st or reverse whilst holding the clutch in and then drive off. He tells me that there is no clutch slip at all. What could be his problem. The correct answer could mean a new funster.
     
  2. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    Not a mechanic but my monies on gear linkage adjustment
    terry
     
  3. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    The more mature Fiats were known for 'rice pudding gearboxes' i.e sloppy generally due to worn linkages, not expensive to replace.

    Geo would be the expert give him a PM

    Peter
     
  4. Popeye

    Popeye Funster

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    It sounds as if the centre plate is not fully releasing (free form flywheel and cover), first thing to check is the master and slave cylinder operation or cable if it is cable operated.

    If hydraulic, then attempt to bleed air from the system, to attain a better 'pedal'. If problem re-occurs then air is either bleeding in through Master or Slave cylinder.
     
  5. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Gear linkage adjustment was my first thought too,but why only when its been working hard all day and hot. When its on motorway work he tells me its OK and its only when he is on mountain roads and using the gearbox hard.
     
  6. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Its cable opperated.
     
  7. veevee

    veevee Funster

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    Had 2 Ducatos with gear selector problems, it's generally wear inside the gearbox that's the cause.

    I hoped it was the cable selection system but never was.

    The first time it happened I had lost reverse, first and second and a difficult to get fifth. Had to make two collections in central Paris with a very loaded van and just prayed I didn't end up down one of the many cul de sacs they have. From there had to travel back to the UK.

    Chose to collect during evening for less traffic but had never before realised how many hills there are in Paris, you soon know trying to pull away from traffic lights uphill in third gear!

    Second van I lost reverse and fifth, just makes life difficult.
     
  8. aba

    aba

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    maybe just the gearbox oil needs changing.

    is that not the one that had water ingress troubles on the gearbox???
    some fiats used to get water into the gearbox from the scuttle panel which would mean whilst cold the oil and water would separate and then combine and emulsify when warm loosing viscosity (slipperiness)

    could be wrong but its an option.
     
  9. simsy56

    simsy56 Funster

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    My money is on worn linkages.

    Craig
     
  10. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    Sounds like a shaft bearing in the gearbox heating up and swelling, so making it difficult to choose first and reverse. First point check gearbox oil and change it if not done for a few years. so many people change the engine oil regularly but rarely think of gearbox or axle oils
     
  11. bigfoot

    bigfoot Funster

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    If the 'stick' is on the floor it will be linkage. It was adapted from the column change which was on LHD models,which was more efficient,somehow british drivers had an aversion to these preferring a 'stick' on the floor.
    The Bowden cable models had the stick on the dash.
    If the former it may be slack if the latter the cables may be stretching.
     
  12. veevee

    veevee Funster

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    Quite agree, but as ours were working vans we changed gearbox oil every year.
    Both of our vans had more than 100,000 miles on their clocks but were driven with consideration.
    Our current van have just changed the front tyres after 56,000 miles, so not very hard on the mechanicals.

    So far the gear selection at 97,000 miles is holding up but not quite as smooth as say 50,000 miles ago, most of our miles are on motorway.
     
  13. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    OK, he tells me he had the gearoil changed before leaving home and I have just checked the dipstick and its fine. Its a LHD with the column change with cables. I have tried it and its working as he said,no problems at all selecting any gears. He tells me he only has the problem of selecting first and reverse when he has been working the gearbox hard all day. My thoughts were going towards a weak pressure plate but am not so sure now.
     
  14. Reallyretired

    Reallyretired Funster

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    Could be a contaminated clutch plate that is getting sticky when warm.
     
  15. spannermanwigan

    spannermanwigan Read Only Funster

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    1) Possibly partly seized flywheel center bearing, tightening up more
    when hot, causing drag on input shaft. overcome by weight of vehicle
    and engine drive when started in gear.

    2) High spots on flywheel and or pressure plate faces, distortion increasing
    with increase in engine and clutch temperature.

    3) Distorted Diaphragm or worn fingers on pressure plate.

    This is of course taking that the hydraulic release mechanism has been checked
    and is in good order.

    Has to be a flywheel/clutch related problem as only thing that changes when
    engine is stopped over when clutch is pressed, is that there is no possibility
    of drag on the input shaft, hence gears can be selected.

    Hope this helps
    regards
    Steve :thumb:
     
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  16. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Thanks to all for your thoughts on this. I am going for this diagnosis and wonder if you advise him to get it sorted before leaving for home next week or let it develop.
     
  17. spannermanwigan

    spannermanwigan Read Only Funster

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    If the mechanics and engineering skills are as good as your
    posts give the impression they are in Marrocco, and value for money
    also. I wouldn't hesitate I would have it sorted.
    However Im confident with a competent driver at the wheel the
    journey home could be carefully completed though a failure in Spain
    or France I fear would be very expensive indeed.

    regards
    Steve:thumb:
     
  18. darklord

    darklord Read Only Funster

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  19. spannermanwigan

    spannermanwigan Read Only Funster

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    Don't think he has a sloppy gear change, maybe he has ?

    regards
    Steve
     
  20. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    No there is no sloppy gear change, its a LHD with the column change not the RHD with the floor mounted gear change. I know the problems with these as I had one that smashed my knuckles on the dash every time I changed gear.
    I was thinking along the lines of a weak pressure plate as the problem only becomes evident when he is working the gearbox hard ie, over mountain ranges. I asked if there was any sign of clutch slip and he assured me not. we are possibly 400 miles from any mechanics that I know so thought it a good idea to ask here first.
     
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