Driving a 20 ton American RV on a Car Licence

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Jim, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. Jim

    Jim Ringleader

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    In July I had a Jane Dunn comment on this article. Scroll down under the article to read her comments. What do you think?
     
  2. thehutchies

    thehutchies Funster

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  3. eddievanbitz

    eddievanbitz Trader - Funster

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    It is a very good point. Why don't you need a HGV to drive a coach?

    My take on it is that if you need a HGV to drive a RV you should be able to take your test in your RV.

    My mate went to take the test, and on the big day, sat in the VOSA office going through the paper work only to be told that he already had the entitlement as he had taken his HGV in the army :Doh:

    Who'd be that daft 'eh? :Rofl1:

    Eddie
     
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  4. eddievanbitz

    eddievanbitz Trader - Funster

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    Is she a member on Fun? Hope so as she sounds great fun :Laughing:

    It makes for great reading and the fact that she is backing the decision makers into a corner is wonderful!

    Eddie
     
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  5. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers Read Only Funster

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    It is certainly interesting! DVLA as well known to be a law unto themselves.

    What I would be interested in, is what the change is regarding the photocard license as this techinically 'expires' every ten years - which contradicts itself as it still has the 70 year date on it. Would they try to use this as some kind of defence?

    I had a siutuation with a customer who I was trying to help out - her log book was sent off when she bought her motorhome - took 8 MONTHS to arrive due to a 'back-log' despite many complaint letters to chivvy them on.

    It came through - and they fined her £80 for not having taxed or sorn it.....she couldn't as she had no log book, and it wasn't in her name - the reminder would have gone to the previous owner. She appealled, but they had none of it - the log-book changed ownership on the day she bought it, and they denied taking so long to process it! She was a magistrate, so it proves that they don't care who the mess around!
     
  6. cmcardle75

    cmcardle75 Read Only Funster

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    I am now of the opinion that there is no debate. Heavy motor caravans come under Category C/C1.

    The definition of Category C for licencing purposes is:

    "Motor vehicles having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnes, other than vehicles falling within category D, F, G or H, including any such vehicle drawing a trailer having a maximum authorised mass not exceeding 750 kilograms."

    An RV exceeds 3.5 tonnes, does not have more than 9 travelling seats, is not an agricultural tractor, road roller or track laying vehicle steered by its tracks (although it would be awesome if it was!) There is no mention of "goods vehicle" in the description, just "motor vehicle".

    Therefore, for licensing purposes it is category C (or the subset C1, if under 7500kg).

    The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/2864/schedule/2/made
     
  7. cmcardle75

    cmcardle75 Read Only Funster

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    Interestingly, the descriptions for D and H do not exclude the other, so it isn't clear whether an ex-military armoured personnel carrier would need a category D1 or H licence. So a possible loophole for someone wanting to drive a "tank" without taking a test, perhaps?
     
  8. eddievanbitz

    eddievanbitz Trader - Funster

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    My RV has 11 seats, with seat belts so I can carry 10 passengers in a seat designed to be travelled in. We bought the RV new last year so it complies with the additional "rules" agreed between the RV dealers association and the DVLA

    According to my licence I can drive a mini bus with less than 15 but more than nine passengers on my normal licence up to 12,000 Kilos so long as it is not for hire or reward.

    Yet I still cant take a HGV test in it.

    Yet I will still have to get a class four "car" MOT in two years

    Its obvious why there have been no Court cases.

    I think that the lady's argument isn't what licensing authorities are currently stating, it the fact that it is not based on legislation and in fact is not concurrent with existing European law.

    I suspect with the ease that she quotes the various acts and laws, and her tone of enquiry that she has a legal background, and knows how to challenge people and bodies correctly.

    Eddie
     
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  9. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    You can Eddie in fact we are doing one next month, the only requirement is that it comes up to the minimum requirement for a test vehicle for Cat C ie: must have a min MAM of 12ton, min 8mtrs length, min 2.4mtrs wide, capable of 50mph, min eight forward gear ratio's or automatic, tachogragh, ABS, seatbelts & extra mirrors for the examiner.......then you can use your RV for test, of course you will only get a Automatic licence if taken in an Auto.

    On the point of turning up only to find you already have the licence :Rofl1: would I be right in believing he also had a restricted C+E ie: wagon and drag :Rofl1: :Rofl1: so he could tow a trailer behind his motorhome legally as well :Doh:

    All the best Rick
     
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  10. Peter & Elaine

    Peter & Elaine Funster

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    Just to chuck in a spanner
    Why doesn't a psv driver taking his test in a 12 ton bus not get a lgv entitlement he can do a test using a 7.5 ton truck and get one

    Whats the differance ?
     
  11. cmcardle75

    cmcardle75 Read Only Funster

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    I'd hope not. It appears to be a Category D1 vehicle. You might be able to take a D1 (minibus) test in it, but you'd have to check it against the test vehicle specs. These are more specific, so you typically require a more typical rather than extreme vehicle within the category.
    Indeed. As for MOT test purposes it is a motor caravan. MOT rules and licence rules are completely independent and are not aligned with each other.
    However, the UK law is there, and I've quoted it. There is a complete lack of ambiguity as far as I can see. People are welcome to post links to contradictory legislation.
     
  12. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    For the same reason some one taking an LGV licence in a 18ton truck can't drive a bus..........if some one takes a test in a 7.5 ton truck then he gets a C1 licence max 7.5ton he can't drive a bus on it though.

    A 12 ton bus will give a full cat D licence a 12 ton truck will give a full Cat C.

    All the best Rick
     
  13. Peter & Elaine

    Peter & Elaine Funster

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    Thank god I did my HGV class 1 in 1975 and still got my origanal black book :Rofl1:
     
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  14. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    hi , i have my fathers old red licence here . it covered class a heavy locomotive ,light locomotive,motor tractor ,heavy m,car,and motor car but excluding any vehicle in group b,f g,h,j,k,l (se note 1)
    note 1 says an additional licence must be obtained before either a heavy goods vehicle or a public service vehicle may be driven.no person under 21 may drive a heavy goods vehicle ,except persons of 17and over who may drive certain small articulated vehicles .
    this is a sept 72 licence .
    so if a motor home carries goods and i believe it does your goods not for hire or reward .then an early car licence didnt cover large heavy vehicles such as a rv . his licence also has the renewal in 75 as licences had to be renewed every 3 yrs back then .
    during the early 90.s i spent lots of time going to transport meetings when the licence change was happening in 91. i realized then that a m,home does carry goods . .there isnt any reference to commercial goods its just refereed as goods or burden of any kind .
    so i take it we never had the licence back in 72 possibly not earlier as well.
     
  15. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    i have both . driving a bus is totally different to a truck . you need to be smoother etc as passengers could be standing or moving around . plus they handle differently .
    plus it may seem strange .but very often the brakes on buses arent anywhere near as good as a truck . even ones that appear to be built on truck chassis . the brakes are different .
    you can make a truck a bus . but very often cant change a bus to a truck without major brake work .
    as for trucks there as been a certain weight vehicle you should take your test in . its even stricter now .
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2013
  16. motor roamin

    motor roamin Funster

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    Beat you :Rofl1: 73 I did mine......still on log books as you were Oh how simple those days were :thumb:

    All the best rick
     
  17. Baldeagle7470

    Baldeagle7470 Funster

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    I think the 10 year expiry you mention is the actual photo,I had this situation recently and think I had several years left on most groups on my licence but HGV was close to expiry.I was not worried about this as retired anyway.
    From memory I had to pay £20 for the pleasure of a new photcard licence with a new much older looking photo on it! :Rofl1:
     
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  18. Jim

    Jim Ringleader

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    It expires because of the photo. But the license does expire.
     
  19. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    But would you really want anyone getting out of there Smart car and getting into a 20 ton 40 ft long RV and driving down the road with no experience of driving anything bigger or heavier than a Fiat Panda. It beggars belief.
     
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  20. John & Joan

    John & Joan Funster

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    Things are changing at the end of this year. EU directive to be implemented by 31 December. You will be able to use a motorhome to get a restricted CI licence endorsed NFHR (not for hire or reward) I have a D1 licence so marked because my eyes do not meet the higher standard required for a commercial D1 driver. You will not need to know taco or UK/Continental goods regulations. You will not be able to use a restricted licence to obtain work.

    Another change is that if you take an HGV or PCV on an auto but you have a manual licence for a car, then you will be able to drive a manual HGV or bus.
     
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