Clutch problems (1 Viewer)

Apr 12, 2013
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Shrewsbury
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The company I work for runs twenty two Fiat Ducato 3litre mini buses with comfortmatic gearboxes,
Max weight when loaded 4500 kilos. all built on maxi chassis.
lots of problems with then but the biggest has been clutch related. most have had at least one replacement clutch some have had two. many of them have had clutch slave cylinder problems.
one bus has had four slave cylinders. At present we have five buses off the road with clutch problems.
Fiat have been very good with warranty haven't cost us anything so far but come the end of July that will all change.
most of the buses have done between 30 to 60000 thousand miles and do approximately 20 stops picking up and dropping off per day.
Our previous Iveco buses didn't require clutches till well over 100000 miles.
 

pappajohn

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Aug 26, 2007
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Come the end of July there may be 22 minibuses up,for sale then.

Can't run a fleet that size if the vehicles can't take the pace.
 

Techno

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Jul 28, 2010
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Mine seems to have recovered after a period of being extra careful
This holiday it hasn't slipped once (y)

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Aug 6, 2013
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Kendal, Cumbria
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Le-Voyageur RX958 Pl
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Clutches are a potential problem with any robotised clutch or manual 'box IMO because any smoothing of gear changes is done by slipping the clutch. Any attempt at rapid takeoff, for example, is defeated by the control ECU allowing excessive clutch slip.
 
Apr 10, 2010
548
538
Bedfordshire
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10,998
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Carthago
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Since Sept 2003
Mine seems to have recovered after a period of being extra careful
This holiday it hasn't slipped once (y)
I am told that there is some sort of learning process in the software.

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ambulancekidd

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Sep 23, 2014
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Since 1964 Gosh that makes me feel old.
Clutches are a potential problem with any robotised clutch or manual 'box IMO because any smoothing of gear changes is done by slipping the clutch. Any attempt at rapid takeoff, for example, is defeated by the control ECU allowing excessive clutch slip.

The fleet of Mercedes ambulances that the Scottish Ambulance Service had with automated clutches didn't give a blink of trouble. I personally had a 2.7 wagon with this type of clutch which was eventually retired with over 400K on the clock & never had a clutch replaced! This was an "on-call' wagon which would sit outside with coating of ice & snow, started & then driven flat out within seconds. The Peugeot ambulance that they have now cannot go for a full week without a breakdown, the brakes catch fire, the clutches go & various suspension faults. The service are looking at scrapping them early due to poor reliability.
 

DP+JAY

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Mar 17, 2010
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since 2007, 25 years tuggin before that.
Not just a problem with the auto version I think.
My manual has had a tendency to slip when accelerating hard or on motorway hills with the cruise engaged for the last 10,000 miles, but I think it's the stupid dual mass flywheel rather than the clutch that slips. Every vehicle with a DMF that I've changed the clutch on has been the same, slips under high torque conditions but cannot get it to slip under "normal" clutch slip conditions, e.g trying to set off with brakes applied, driving onto ramps etc.etc. and all those clutches have looked serviceable when dismantled. I have replaced them with solid flywheel kits & they have done greater mileages than with the original clutches without problem.

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DP+JAY

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Mar 17, 2010
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Laika 5009
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since 2007, 25 years tuggin before that.
I think I am probably pushing my luck with this clutch / flywheel now as it is definitely getting worse, so trying to find more info about the 3 litre clutch / flywheel set up before I have to bite the bullet & replace something.
Has any body fitted or had fitted a new clutch without replacing the DMF?

Has any body fitted or had fitted a new DMF without a new clutch?

Has anybody fitted or had fitted a Solid flywheel kit with the 3 litre engine?
 
Jun 30, 2010
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1992 VW Auto sleeper Mono
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Hah! you obviously havn't found out yet that the clutch pedal on a Ducatto is made of plastic.

I did in the middle of Dartmoor, no phone signal for bloody miles and miles and miles and miles and miles!
 

DP+JAY

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Mar 17, 2010
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Laika 5009
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since 2007, 25 years tuggin before that.
Well, I'll take that as a no shall I?
Time to bite the bullet & get stuck in so made a start this afternoon.
 

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KUSKUS
Apr 12, 2013
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Shrewsbury
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good luck , let us know how you get on ?

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Techno

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Jul 28, 2010
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Leeds the one up North
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Rapido 7090F 3 litre 160
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May 2010
Well, I'll take that as a no shall I?
Time to bite the bullet & get stuck in so made a start this afternoon.
Lots of pictures very much appreciated (y)

Normal procedure is to quote for replacement clutch at near £1200. If on inspection the DMF looks to need replacing it is another £500 hit plus labour. It's a holiday fund program for greedy bar stewards
LUK full clutch and DMF is under £500 total on ebay
 

maxi77

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Mar 20, 2013
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Kingdom of Fife
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coacbuilt
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newbie
Lots of pictures very much appreciated (y)

Normal procedure is to quote for replacement clutch at near £1200. If on inspection the DMF looks to need replacing it is another £500 hit plus labour. It's a holiday fund program for greedy bar stewards
LUK full clutch and DMF is under £500 total on ebay

Wow so the £1100 I paid for a new DMF and clutch on a transit based van was quite cheap. The flywheel had seized covering the bolts and the holes had to be ground out to release the DMF
 

DP+JAY

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Mar 17, 2010
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since 2007, 25 years tuggin before that.
I'll be disappointed if the job costs me more than £350.
 

DP+JAY

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Mar 17, 2010
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Laika 5009
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since 2007, 25 years tuggin before that.
image.jpeg
As suspected nothing wrong with the clutch, in fact it looks brand new, not even a scrap of dust in the bell housing.

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SandraL

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Jan 24, 2012
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Hymer b694sl
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I used to tow a caravan ( but I-ve seen the light ) Clutch started to slip under load with van on, on dismantling friction plate was fine, the overheating had taken tension out of pressure plate. But all 3 parts changed as pig to get out of 4*4 car, oh and it was in a french garage at the time.
 

DP+JAY

LIFE MEMBER
Mar 17, 2010
2,526
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Dalbeattie
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10,674
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Laika 5009
Exp
since 2007, 25 years tuggin before that.
image.jpeg
The flywheel on the other hand is a joke. I toile a video of the play in it before I removed it but I can't seem to post it here, anyway new flywheel & clutch fitted.
Engine & box back in now, could have finished it today but decided to have a few beers in the sun instead.
So far it has taken about 10 hours, not bad for an arthritic 60 something working on axle stands on the gravel drive. Couple of hours tomorrow to put the bodywork back on should do it.
 

DP+JAY

LIFE MEMBER
Mar 17, 2010
2,526
14,773
Dalbeattie
Funster No
10,674
MH
Laika 5009
Exp
since 2007, 25 years tuggin before that.
I used to tow a caravan ( but I-ve seen the light ) Clutch started to slip under load with van on, on dismantling friction plate was fine, the overheating had taken tension out of pressure plate. But all 3 parts changed as pig to get out of 4*4 car, oh and it was in a french garage at the time.
No sign of heat damage to the pressure plate either but the play in the dual mass flywheel is amazing. I'm surprised it still drove at all.

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DP+JAY

LIFE MEMBER
Mar 17, 2010
2,526
14,773
Dalbeattie
Funster No
10,674
MH
Laika 5009
Exp
since 2007, 25 years tuggin before that.
Nice job, did you manage to keep the cost below £350 after all.

Clutch / Flywheel kit was £250 +vat from local motor factors, I decided (whilst it was out) to replace the concentric slave/release bearing so add £55.68 + vat.
I'm also going to replace the gear oil (£20) and other than a few hose clips etc. (that I had in Stock) that's it.

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