A Frame (1 Viewer)

[PAULS]

Any one used an A Frame to tow a car behind a Motorhome in the last year or so. Can’t seem to find anything on any of the forums after 2015. All the installers that you talk to say that it is now legal in Europe and produce loads of facts and figures. Not going to Spain or Portugal, Very confused and would love some input from other Motorhome users.
Cheers Paul

 

[Mikeco]

This will pass the time away tonight, not much on the telly.

 

[EX51SSS]

You'll have loads replying soon but in the meantime

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[rosalan]

I was going to say we have a vase of flowers on our telly but seeing that you are a new member (a good decision) may I offer what little info I have picked up over what seems like ages. In Europe they do not like 'A' frame towing. You may get away with it as many have done. Best advice is to ask the people who are selling them if they want your money or not.

 

[big map]

Any one used an A Frame to tow a car behind a Motorhome in the last year or so. Can’t seem to find anything on any of the forums after 2015. All the installers that you talk to say that it is now legal in Europe and produce loads of facts and figures. Not going to Spain or Portugal, Very confused and would love some input from other Motorhome users.
Cheers Paul

We have, don't go to Germany you will get nicked.

 

[Mel]

Welcome to Fun
Dont use it in Belgium
You might get nicked
On the motorway you will get nicked.
It is against the law to tow a vehicle past the first junction .

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[The Nomad]

Hang on, I'll get my popcorn..



You can use the search facility to pull up inumerable previous threads on this subject. In brief. ....legality in UK is a grey area but likely to become definitely illegal on the future; in just about all the rest of Europe it's definitely illegal....but you may or may not get away with it depending upon Police Officer knowledge and level of fines required to make his monthly target.

And......................they're off!

 

[EX51SSS]

Hang on, I'll get my popcorn..



You can use the search facility to pull up inumerable previous threads on this subject. In brief. ....legality in UK is a grey area but likely to become definitely illegal on the future; in just about all the rest of Europe it's definitely illegal....but you may or may not get away with it depending upon Police Officer knowledge and level of fines required to make his monthly target.

And......................they're off!

Yes been and got mine and I'm sure there's lots who want to share.

 

[icantremember]

&

We have been towing with an a-frame in the UK for many years but don't take it abroad because of the likly possibility of being stopped.

Our current toad, a peugeot 108 with electronic braking, was supplied and fitted by Towbars2Towcars ... I previously used to tow with a Car-a-Tow overrun braked a-frame.

You will find many on here who decry the use of a-frames ... most of who have never tried it!

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[Mikeco]

I don't believe that this post is going to survive the night, pity.

 

[Charlie]

What's an A frame ?

 

[Chris]

I think the Spanish welcome them

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[Mikeco]

I think the Spanish welcome them

Yes with open arms, sidearms that is, usually a Glock 15 or similar with motor home piercing bullets.

 

[sdc77]

@PAULS .. it's going to a judgement call for you.. In the UK they are treated as a trailer. In some countries (as pointed out above) they are illegal.
There's no suggestion that they are unsafe ... Although there were some issues with some cars in the past (older ka springs to mind) where the replaced front strut wasn't up to the forces being applied beyond its design.
The topic of A Frames comes up regularly on here hence the amount of popcorn being distributed.
Bear in mind you only get 5 free posts here until you register ... but for £15 a year you can find out anything you want about motorhomes. .. beer drinking ... destinations ... brexit and food. Etc etc


Edit: we use a trailer..

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

We use an A frame in the uk but if abroad would rent a car if needed as the ferry fare for MH plus car would be very expensive and if fined would not be worth the aggravation.
Plenty on here will tell you that they are illegal in the U.K. or will be soon but TBH I cannot see parliament having time to discuss the subject as they have bigger fish to fry with Brexit. They are treated as a trailer but usually (and mine) fail on the technicalities as the rear reflectors on a trailer need to be triangular but car reflectors seldom are.
Sorry for the Brexit comment, we will now need much more popcorn

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[pappajohn]

it isnt just the fine, particularly in Spain you wont be permitted to continue until the toad is unhitched and driven separately, after you paid the on the spot fine which will probably be a sum pulled from fresh air.....difficult if you are the only driver.

 

[Zoppydog]

We have an A frame and use it in UK and last year took it to France with no problems. Regarding recent threads, if you go to the bottom of the page you will see a box titled Similar Threads which has some A frame threads from 2016.
Chris

 

[icantremember]

the rear reflectors on a trailer need to be triangular

This is easily overcome ... I have a pair of triangular reflectors on aluminium extension arms attached to the removeable number plate.

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[Charlie]

This is easily overcome ... I have a pair of triangular reflectors on aluminium extension arms attached to the removeable number plate.

So do I . They were supplied with the kit and take seconds if that to fit..

 

[Manic]

We have used an A frame in England for 5 years towing a Peugeot 107 with no problem and are in France with it now, only because we're in one place for 2 1/2 months. If touring France we wouldn't bring car as Aires that we use are normal in or very near towns or beaches and wouldn't go to Spain with it.

 

[eddie]

I like many people tow a car when it suits in the UK on a frame. We have in the past taken it to Spain and to France.

Spain is a no go area unless your prepared to fork out loads of money in fines and regularly un hook and drive separately

France, seemed to ignore them, as in the UK but in the Summer I was in France with two French friends both involved in the leisure industry, one selling "camping cars" and one owning a couple of campsites and they have told me that it is now illegal and not to bring my "little car" to France as I will be fined. Given that I wouldn't bother taking it to France again

I will be taking the car to the NEC next month on the A Frame and find the A Frame an extremely easy way of towing a car, but if I wanted to take a car to Europe I would buy/borrow/rent a small fold up trailer to avoid the inevitable grief and expense.

Anything that starts out as OK so long as you don't get caught for me is too much potential hassle

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[PAULS]

Thanks everyone looks like I will have to find a very light weight trailor.
Paul

 

[Larrynwin]

This is easily overcome ... I have a pair of triangular reflectors on aluminium extension arms attached to the removeable number plate.

Yes, same here

 

[Minxy]

Thanks everyone looks like I will have to find a very light weight trailor.
Paul

Hi Paul, welcome to the fun (and slightly mad) house!

What car are you wanting to tow?

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[gus-lopez]

 

[PAULS]

Hi Mel. Hyundi i10

 

[Charlie]

I like many people tow a car when it suits in the UK on a frame. We have in the past taken it to Spain and to France.

Spain is a no go area unless your prepared to fork out loads of money in fines and regularly un hook and drive separately

France, seemed to ignore them, as in the UK but in the Summer I was in France with two French friends both involved in the leisure industry, one selling "camping cars" and one owning a couple of campsites and they have told me that it is now illegal and not to bring my "little car" to France as I will be fined. Given that I wouldn't bother taking it to France again

I will be taking the car to the NEC next month on the A Frame and find the A Frame an extremely easy way of towing a car, but if I wanted to take a car to Europe I would buy/borrow/rent a small fold up trailer to avoid the inevitable grief and expense.

Anything that starts out as OK so long as you don't get caught for me is too much potential hassle

Not doubting you Eddie but surely there must be some definite clarification in writing somewhere to prove or disprove that A frames are no longer allowed in France ?

This is actually very important to those of us who have disabled wives or partners because without the car we that is my wife and I cannot go to France with our outfit.

It really is that definite for us.

Quite simply put IF this is the case then it's time for us to sell up and move on...

With respect Eddie I hope this is just another A frame rumour. I feel comfortable that coming from you it's not a poke.

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[eddie]

Not doubting you Eddie but surely there must be some definite clarification in writing somewhere to prove or disprove that A frames are no longer allowed in France ?

This is actually very important to those of us who have disabled wives or partners because without the car we that is my wife and I cannot go to France with our outfit.

It really is that definite for us.

Quite simply put IF this is the case then it's time for us to sell up and move on...

With respect Eddie I hope this is just another A frame rumour. I feel comfortable that coming from you it's not a poke.

No genuinely a conversation with two people that are aware of the ambiguity and we're simply advising me, as a friend, not to risk it, as they both had first hand experience of people being fined

I have known one of the two guys since 2002, met him at the Düsseldorf show, bought a motorhome from him at the Paris show in 2003

We have been Guests at his home, and indeed he has stayed with us. We have met up with them on holiday several times whilst away in our campers

I know that this doesn't prove anything to you, but for me, a friends advice telling me not to continue doing something as I will get into trouble, is enough to stop doing it

Personally. Have written in the past that common sense states that it should be illegal as a car s plainly not a trailer.

Park it on a busy road hooked up, with no tax or insurance and argue with the courts that it is a "Trailer" so doesn't need VED or insurance and see the definition be immeadiatly made.

.

 

[PeteH]

The use or not of the "A" frame on the European mainland has been well documented over many years. Those of us who have indeed done both trailing and framing, are well aware that since about 2000 the Spanish and Portuguese Constabularies have indeed been clamping down, and I am advised by those who I am still in contact with that it has got more prevalent since the "bust" of 2007-8.

I would no longer consider an "A" frame in Europe, largely because they are congenitally stupid in their legal system, which is based on the ravings of the "little man" (Napoleon). The Vienna convention or whatever is not the legal basis of of the EU. The fundamental document is the Rome Treaty. Part of which acknowledges that for the convenience of all. something which is permitted in a member country should be tolerated in ALL the EU states when used by a VISITOR. (note not a resident), and was originally aimed at not making Tourist travel so inconvenient that tourism would be affected. The UK for years accepted over-width German Caravans even though domestically they where illegal. So TECHNICALLY the Sales men are correct, However. The Spanish and Portuguese (in particular but not exclusively) are adept at ignoring that which they do not like, hence their regular fishing up to the UK beaches! with under-size nets.

Technically, an "A" frame IS a better tool for the job, and only fails in that they are difficult (but not impossible) to reverse more than a few feet. Has an insignificant accident record, far less than Trailer Wreck`s. And is proven by the large numbers that are successfully, and safely, used in the USA, where their use outnumbers trailer use by large margin.

This "discussion" will run and run, but unfortunately "A" frame use on the European mainland will eventually die completely. And that saddens me, another bit of freedom gone, whittled away by overzealous bureaucrats.

BTW. US Style "tow dollys" are completely reversible!. I know, I brought a Rental car from Florida to Texas on a "U-Haul" one, Behind the R-V when we Bought It!, It is also IMHO an even better device than an "A" frame but has been judged as "legal only for the recovery of disabled vehicles" by the Courts Circa 1975ish.

IF, I decide in the future to go back to Spain, as we did for many years prior to choosing the USA. I would likely buy a Smart and Trailer it, JUST to avoid the hassle of being "pulled" by Spanish "plod" (3 times). Someone makes (made) a trailer with a folding Draw bar, and that would take up the least space on site. ( one guy I know, put plywood base on the trailer and used it for a Gazebo, to Barbecue in / on!)




Pete

 

[Charlie]

Well I give up..... Our Motorhome will be in the classifieds soon because without the luxury of a car when we are away it's of no use to us. We have tried without a car and it just does not work.

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