A bit of help with regard to fuel type needed

Discussion in 'American RV's' started by foggyparrot, May 12, 2008.

  1. foggyparrot

    foggyparrot Deleted User

    With Pooh going and my feelings about our Monaco not being what they should, I got to thinking about possibly changing the coach again.

    I know it's not relevant, but the Monaco is a lovely coach, it drives well, it does most of what we wanted, but it's probably just a question of greener grass and all that.

    With the cost of diesel sky rocketing I did a few quick calculations as to the overall cost of fuel over a 12 month period and wondered if the extra MPG that you tend to get from a diesel is now offset by the lower price of petrol.

    Are you with me so far?

    We travel about 2500 mile a year and the last time I checked fuel consumption on the Winnie, a 530 mile round trip returned us 17.6mpg towing the trailer and car.

    Although it's not exactly accurate, the Monaco returned us about 12.5mpg last time out.

    I'm sort of figuring that the average petrol coach should return about 10 mpg so although it's no real contest as far as the Winnie goes, the difference in mpg between the Monaco and a big petrol A class is quite small. So I got to work on the spreadsheet and tried to take into account all of the variables to see exactly what the annual BOTTOM LINE differences were between petrol and diesel fuel costs.

    Just to make it interesting I threw in some estimated costs on LPG as well.

    So far (and based upon my own very limited experience) it seems that diesel is still substantially less expensive than petrol despite the price per litre difference.

    As an example these are the figures I came up with:

    A small (30 footish) 6.5 Turbo diesel (the Winnie) could cost as little as 30.4 pence per mile in fuel costs - so 2500 miles could be achieved for as little as £760.00.

    An 8.3 (or thereabouts) pusher could achieve 42.8 ppm costing £1070 per 2500 miles.

    A petrol vehicle (7.3) returning 10mpg (? - don't really know - pure speculation) would cost about 47 ppm costing £1185 for the same mileage.

    I believe that you can lose something approaching 1 mile per gallon less on LPG (10%) but the costs would still only be 29 ppm with a 2500 mile cost of £725.

    The problem that I have is that I obviously can't speculate about actual fuel consumptions but can only work with the figures I have - including the price of fuel local to me.

    Obviously a small coach with a gas conversion is going to achieve substantially more that the above, but I have to consider a larger coach (with a payload similar to the Monaco) so have excluded Pooh sized vehicles from my wish list.

    At the end of the day it's purely speculative and I don't think that the engine type or size would be paramount in us making a decision about which coach to actually buy, particularly when you consider that the overall difference in fuel costs for the entire year would only equate to a paltry £115 between a big engined diesel and similar petrol. However, a ready converted LPG could save us about £460 a year at best and £355 at worst. That does make you sit up and take notice!!

    I still think it would be difficult to justify that cost of converting if you were only doing the mileage we do, but a ready converted coach might be worth looking at!

    Any way, just to try and balance out my research, I wonder if any body could give me actual fuel consumptions and (as importantly) the fuel prices from different areas.

    I stress that this is only an exercise and is unlikely to influence our decision to change or not, but for my interest and to occupy a bit of time, responses would be gratefully received.

    I think it's important to collect as much data as possible because everybody's style of driving is different as well as the types of journeys they do. For instance, I NEVER use my cruise control because I believe it makes for an incredibly un-economical drive (that'll spark a debate!!).

    Should anybody want to see my results once I have compiled my data just let me know.

    Mike :thumb:
     
  2. Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

    Johns_Cross_Motorhomes Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales

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    Whats with not using cruise control??????

    I get better fuel consumption than with a heavy foot.

    I use speed limiter in 30/40 and 50mph zones as well, saves speeding tickets!:thumb:

    Now start........................:Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1:
     
  3. tofo

    tofo Funster

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    if you are spening upwardes of £10.000- £20.000 on a vehicle
    is saving £400-£700 a year gonna stop you
    when the right one stands in front of you
     
  4. olley

    olley Funster

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    Hi Mike about 9.5mpg on petrol and 7mpg on LPG, price of petrol around here is about £1.07 LPG £0.56.

    Can't see the point in not using the cruise unless your going up and down mountains, its one of the reasons for buying an RV, along with an autobox, now they do cost MPG.

    If you really want to save cash, buy a eurovan, I think Frank on Facts gets well over 30mpg. :BigGrin:

    Olley
     
  5. foggyparrot

    foggyparrot Deleted User

    At the end of the day it's purely speculative and I don't think that the engine type or size would be paramount in us making a decision about which coach to actually buy, particularly when you consider that the overall difference in fuel costs for the entire year would only equate to a paltry £115 between a big engined diesel and similar petrol. However, a ready converted LPG could save us about £460 a year at best and £355 at worst. That does make you sit up and take notice!!

    ..........is what I did say!

    My interest is purely academic.

    Very often people post and ask for advice about which fuel type to go for and whether or not an LPG conversion is cost effective.

    My own opinion is that these are all irrelevant unless you are planning to do a squillion miles a year. Living space, layout, payload, colour, equipment and anything else that pushes your buttons are the definitive requirements.

    Yes, the fact that there are opportunities to save money whilst enjoying your lifestyle or hobby can sometimes be a deciding factor, for SOME people, is attractive. So a pre-converted coach presents a cost effective option for those that do consider mileage a priority. However, it is fairly clear (IMHO) that the cost of doing a conversion in order to achieve better mileage consumption is not really financially viable as this cost is unlikely to be recouped (certainly for a good few years).

    For us, however, the ammount of miles we do does not justify fuel type being at or even very near the top of our list.

    It just interests me to know what the variations are that lead people to be specific in choosing diesel above petrol or vice versa. All I'm really asking for is peoples' experiences of consumption in order to satisfy my own warped curiosity.
     
  6. Digger Driver

    Digger Driver Read Only Funster

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    I feel awfull when i hear about fuel!
    I have a petrol van and an unlimited supply of red deisel at work!
    Rest assured my next bus will be deisel!:Eeek:
     
  7. olley

    olley Funster

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    We chose petrol because most short length RV's are petrol driven, and the ones that aren't "FRED's" are noisy, the decision to convert to lpg was partly economic and partly emotion, I knew everytime I filled with petrol I would be thinking I could be putting LPG in at half the price.:cry:

    I reckon the conversion has just about been paid for now with the savings we have made running on LPG.

    Olley
     
  8. foggyparrot

    foggyparrot Deleted User

    Cheers Olley,

    I guess you must have eaten some miles since you got the Brave then!

    Would you still reccomend a conversion for someone who is still only doing less than 2000 miles a year?

    Mike
     
  9. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    For what its worth Mike
    My opinion on the subject is,
    The newer breed of petrol engines are returning much closer MPG to the diesel versions than your figures quote, up to 14-16 is now boasted
    given the purchase price will be lower for the petrol engined model, i think it can almost be considered as being on an equal footing with a diesel, the other advantage of petrol is you then have the option to LPG it if you think it worth the outlay, Diesel LPG conversion is on it's way though, but still very expensive
    I think the current payback time is about 5-6 years based on mileage a little higher than yours 3500 -5000 per annum
    My next RV will almost certainly be petrol unless there is a big purchase price incentive to go otherwise, IE a supper dooper not to be missed bargain
    Another way to look at it is when the guy next to you in the Euro van says "Cor what does that thing do to the gallon" say "same as yours parked hear mate"and then point out
    On a power to weight and mpg ratio an RV is almost 1.5 times more efficient than a European:Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1:
    Geo
    Geo
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2008
  10. olley

    olley Funster

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    Hi Mike on 2000 miles a year no, I recken payback is around 20,000-25,000 miles, we are now on 36,000 and had it done around 12,000, we do around 8,000 miles per year.

    I think for anybody doing less than 4,000 miles a year the payback is just to long, you will probably sell it before that happens.

    As for the MPG that Geo quotes I don't think any 6.8 or 8.1 petrol is going to give you much over 12mpg and if its an "A" class? Ours is a 30' at 8.75tons laden, and on petrol as I posted earlier it does about 9.5mpg.

    I can't see how a diesel can rival a petrol for fuel consumption, not only has diesel a higher energy density, but diesels are a few percentage points more efficient.

    Olley
     
  11. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Just some copied and pasted snippets from a V10 forum I'd get yours looked at Olley:Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1:


    havent had the trailer behind it yet but I was getting 15 mpg


    get 15 on trips and 13 around town. Even towing my jeep(6000lbs
    trailer&jeep) we get 12 or so.

    Friend has an '03 V-10 and was getting 14 MPG pretty much all the time.

    Mine is thirsty but it hasn't changed since day 1, 12mpg in mixed driving, 14mpg on the highway

    he got about 13 mpg with it then he put in a K&N airfilter and now he is getting about 16

    Geo
     
  12. hereford bull

    hereford bull Read Only Funster

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    my 35 ft vacationer used to do about 9 on petrol and never more than 8 on lpg i changed to a deisel 6 litre 37 feet and as accurate as i can get it returns between 9 and eleven depending where im going i do about 9000 a year it takes a fair while to get your money back after paying for a conversion but once youve done it it dont hurt as much when your running it . if your not doing many miles i dont think its worth it.now that ive had petrol lpg and now the diesel pusher in my own opinion i dont think i would spend the extra money and it is a lot of money to make the step up again
     
  13. Road Runner

    Road Runner Read Only Funster

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    My V8 Ford 7.5 460 does best 8.5mpg and worst 6 mpg and seem happier on gas with the sequential system.

    I am always towing and running around 8.25 tons combined but I believe towing a car is an extra drag that the same extra weight carried on the chassis wouldn't.

    Going LPG will pay me back fairly fast IMHO especially as I only pay 38p a litre plus vat (Long may it last:pray:)
     
  14. foggyparrot

    foggyparrot Deleted User

    Thanks for that everybody, but here's some food for thought.

    I love what you're saying Geo, especially when it appears that the posts you have copied come from US sites.. because.... the US gallon is only about 7/8ths of an imperial gallon which actually makes them even more economical!!

    No disrespect to our European owning members, but never in a million years would I ever consider one over an RV. When you consider just how, as Geo quite rightly says, fuel efficient they are (based on my own experience), the bling for bucks argument could never ever ring truer.

    I have to say that I loved by Winnie and am probably a bit biased, but I would have to seriously consider going down the Winnie route again. Having spent a great deal of time at Dudleys before we got the Monaco, I was surprised to learn that there will no longer be a diesel option available on any of the new Winnies. How true that statement is I don't know. But it was that that planted the seed in my otherwise empty head to start giving petrol driven machines a serious hard look.

    The fact that you (Geo) are so taken with yours and having had the benefit of your advice before, leads me to suspect that the next coach I do get will be petrol.

    Dudleys were quoting 8 to 10 mpg on the Chevy Vortec which is what I was basing my figures on. That, however, for a 10 ton base machine is still, I think, a respectable return.

    Notwithstanding, I am still anxious to hear about other peoples MPG figures purely and simply so that I can do a simple and easy comparison guide. I stress that this is purely for my own entertainment but at least some diffinitive averages can be given when we do get the odd newbie asking the question 'Petrol, LPG or diesel' (maybe!!).

    Thank you to everyone for their answers so far (and comments) but please keep 'em coming.

    Mike
     
  15. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Yes Mike the figures were not just pulled out of the air, also similar figures are now appearing in RR's cruising post 13 -15 mpg my comment re Olleys was not meant as a jibe, and looking at RR's post it appears as his shift into top gear reqs work mine drops in at about 44 mph and will pull like a train without dropping down again,others have said they need to be doing 50+ to maintain torque, maybe this is were the difference in MPG is as well as driving style
    Ford state that for every 400kg towed 1MPG will be lost now I know Olleys trailer and toad are welded to the rear of his RV, well I've never seen it off:Rofl1: added to that is Sue's shopping and there's your 5 MPG shortfall:Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1::Rofl1:
    Geo
     
  16. GEOFFs125

    GEOFFs125 Read Only Funster

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    :thumb:Well Mike, hats off to you for creating a great topic of discussion, so I will add my two penath worth:Eek!:

    I converted my C Class RV, 18 months ago, only wish I had done it earlier. The C Class weights 5500 kg when fully loaded and tows a four wheeled box trailer. The trailer has 2 x motocross bikes and water tanks fitted to it, not sure of the weight.

    Prior to conversion I was averaging 12mpg, now I am averaging 21mpg. Mileage for the first year was 8247 miles.

    To recoup the cost of the lpg you need to do high annual mileage or intend to keep the RV for several years.

    Geoff
     
  17. foggyparrot

    foggyparrot Deleted User

    The Monaco shifts into top at about 40mph, the Winnie about the same.

    Why such variations on other coaches? Geo?? My initial thought was the difference in torque between diesel and petrol, but that doesn't seem to ring true reading the previous posts.

    By the way Geo, am I still on your hit list?
     
  18. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Yes, but your number 1,765 and iv,e moved Dazzer up just above you, so you could die of old age before i get round to you:Rofl1::Rofl1:
    Geo
     
  19. Road Runner

    Road Runner Read Only Funster

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    Do you guys have overdrive?

    My has a 4 speed auto with and overdrive fitted.
     
  20. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    I do John and it's permantly engaged by default, you have to turn it off if you want to
    Geo
     
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