Yet another ridiculous speed limit.

[Paul and Val]

And so according to the BBC website, Wales is to have a blanket 20mph limit in towns. See here - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-62020427

Bravo for the dream people. These are the idiots who do not realise that there are just a few drawbacks to such restrictions.

1. Less emissions. Err, no. Complete nonsense. You cannot drive a modern car at 20 mph without being in (probably) second gear. Anybody with the most basic understanding of the internal combustion engine will realise that a car in second gear will have many more evolutions and sparks and bangs and pops than a car in fourth. Hence we will see more pollution rather than less.

2. Ok but cars will drive through town at lower speeds. Err, really sorry but no. When I was driving for a living and covering huge distances every year (at very high speeds most of the time and over 100k a year with never an accident by the way), there was, for a time an absolutely ridiculous 30mph limit on motorways and dual carriageways through roadworks. For many years now it has been 40mph. Why was it increased? Because the average speed through road repairs WAS FASTER when the slower speed limit was in force. The reason? Because research has proven many times that when a speed limit is set stupidly low, motorists not only ignore it but drive at HIGHER speeds than they would have done before.

3. Ok but I am a know all who knows nothing really. Err, I may well be a know all (as, the flat cap, 45mph motorhome drivers who keep to that speed whatever the tailback and wherever they are, be it dual carriageways or outside schools at 3.45pm would say) but when as mayor of our village, against my vote a sensible 40mph limit was reduced to 30mph, despite the fact that the arrow straight main route only passed four grand houses and there were few if any junctions. We laughingly, in hindsight, took turns with a radar gun borrowed from the Police. Speed went UP from an average of 43mph to 48mph. And that was over several test periods. I have to say here that despite being a fast driver it was fun to see fellow motorists brake hard and the look of terror on their faces when they saw 'the gun'. I felt very big and important (a bit like traffic policemen who seemingly never try to stop dangerous drivers but only people driving sensibly but above the speed limit).

4. Well ok but people will be more aware and therefore there will be fewer accidents. On this I can only question the rather suspect logic. I have no actual example to give other than past personal experience. First, a question to you dear reader. On the docks at Dover and other places, do you stick to the 20mph limit? I fear that if you say yes then there may be a few Melton Mowberries in the air (pork pies). My personal view is that when driving at 20mph I am likely to pay less attention than when at a more sensible 30mph. I would be interested in your viewpoint.

Anyway here is to the new cloud cuckoo land of imaginary 'ideal worlds' where the Police say, there are no more RTA's (road traffic accidents), there are only offences to be prosecuted to the enth degree.

Before the deluge of complaints I would say that while I do a far lower mileage now than in my previous life, in over two million miles of motoring, I have never been in an accident other the being hit from behind when stationary, not once but seven times. Maybe they were bored and distracted with artificially low speed limits set by the flat cap wearing cyclist brigade?

Discuss fellow road warriors (and please move over if you are a slow driver to allow normal traffic to make progress). Thank you.
Paul

 

[KiwiKampers]

New Zealand is currently going through an active, Government-sponsored campaign to reach zero deaths on the road by reducing speed limits. Millions of dollars are being spent on atrocious TV adverts that feature children and seem to be directed at the lowest common denominator. The open speed limit is 100kph (62mph) but there are very, very few roads where you can do 100kph. We have so few motorways or dual carriageways, mainly due to the topography. Under the new regime most of what you would call A-roads and we call State Highways have speed limits of 60-80 kph (37-50mph). It is a cause of huge frustration to be stuck behind a large truck, motorhome, car towing a boat or caravan, etc. These vehicles are capable of doing up to 90kph but inevitably slow down on inclines and steep mountain roads. When an overtaking lane or opportunity becomes available the following vehicles can't increase speed sufficiently to get past the slow-moving traffic, and of course, we have the usual drivers who don't like to be overtaken and so increase their speed deliberately. Frustrated drivers make bad decisions and take risks. That's when the accidents happen.
My town has recently introduced a 30kph (just over 18mph) speed limit (reduced from 50kph) in the urban area. It's not uncommon to be overtaken by a bike.

 

[jumar]

Many towns in Spain have a 20 kph limit....thats 12 mph...

 

[GJH]

We've had 20mph in most residential streets in Middlesbrough for many years. As with many regulations, there are the few who think it doesn't apply to them but, generally speaking, it has worked well.

 

[jongood]

Many towns in Spain have a 20 kph limit....thats 12 mph...

We've had 20mph in most residential streets in Middlesbrough for many years. As with many regulations, there are the few who think it doesn't apply to them but, generally speaking, it has worked well.

The thing is both of these examples are in areas where there is a high density of pedestrians or commonly in Spain where the markers and kerbstones are (is muted the word)?

Its going to be a problem where they are arrow straight roads through places that are little more than hamlets but have streetlights.

But then again, like the mooted tourist tax all Drakeford wants is too make money to cover his own bumbling attempts to make the devolution project work.

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[GJH]

Its going to be a problem where they are arrow straight roads through places that are little more than hamlets but have streetlights.

The only reason that would happen is if legends in their own egos decide that they are above the law.

 

[Googlebot]

I completely agree with blanket reductions in towns.

It amazes me how people turn this into a political battle, it isn’t, the research that is peer reviewed and independent is clear that less speed is better.

I am fed up with worrying about my kids being mown down by people who insist on doing the limit even when unsafe. Nobody has ever told me they wished the limits had gone back up after they went down and we have loads of them in Birmingham.

Finally, I have seen the results of people being hit at varying speeds over the years and the correlation between death and serious injury and speed is clear. If it inconveniences you but saves just 1 child from being killed, it’s worth it for me.

 

[The Coops]

I like the traffic light system, going too fast, traffic lights change to red and camera fitted for those who don't stop, right speed green light, carry on, seen them a lot in Spain and there is one on the A75 towards Cairnryan no arguments no *go slowers* or lane blockers, get caught its down to you not frustrated by other road users. As with most things needs to be look at sensibly not a blanket ban, I could be wrong but the speed guns were calibrated to 30mph so no use at 20mph as not accurate.

 

[Speve]

We have a voluntary 20mph on a small stretch of road through our village with an electronic speed indicator and that seems to be working it was suggested due to the high road kill figures of animals

 

[jongood]

The only reason that would happen is if legends in their own egos decide that they are above the law.

I'm not arguing against it where its appropriate, my contention is that it isn't necessarily appropriate everywhere that is currently a 30.

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[The Wino]

It always strikes me as strange that everyone says there are nowadays lots of terrible drivers but I don't think I've ever met anyone who said they were. I suspect a lot have a grossly over inflated ego about their own driving skills I too haven't had any accidents whilst moving in my case in 45 years or had anyone drive into the back of me ( it seems very unlucky to be driven into the back of 7 times does that indicate not looking ahead and anticipation leading to last minute braking and increasing the risk of a rear end shunt?)
A lot of "fast" drivers I strongly suspect have watched a bit too much formula 1 and top gear. Set off 5 minutes earlier and drive slower it's not a race and if you look at the ETA on a sat nav typically driving like an a**e only saves a few minutes on a typical journey.

 

[ceejayt]

I live on a narrowish country road, just room for two cars to pass and great care when in the motorhome. Our house is also on a Z bend and yet idiots drive along the road at the legal speed limit of 60mph. I would dearly love to see a 40mph limit on roads such as mine.

We have a 20mph limit through a village close by where there is also a school. The limit is quite rightly religiously observed at ALL times of the day not just school time. I would be happy to see a 20mph speed limit in town despite the OPs objections if only to see less accidents and much less injury to persons.

France has 30km/h limits everywhere in villages, I don't see a problem at obeying these laws

 

[GJH]

I'm not arguing against it where its appropriate, my contention is that it isn't necessarily appropriate everywhere that is currently a 30.

Whether it is appropriate or not is the decision of the appropriate lawmakers. We all have the right to lobby those lawmakers (some also have the right to replace them at an election) if we think the decision is wrong. Once the decision is made, though, nobody is above the law.

 

[PP Bear]

I’m all for it. They reduced the limit to 20 heading into Tonbridge past the School and it worked really well, less those Mr MaGoo drivers that couldn’t understand what 20 actually meant.

Think the challenge will be those that think 30 means 40 and 20 will mean 30. Certain cyclists will also be a challenge I‘m sure.

 

[Garfields]

20 limits in Scottish Borders last couple of years.
Bit of a pain in places but overall no big deal.
They have put some roads on outskirts of various towns back to 30
Overall travel time changed very little

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[PaulyP]

When travelling to my static near lancaster I do M60/M61 and M6 on cruise approx 65mph, on leaving the motorway at junct 33 I pass through various speed limits 50/30/50/40/30 and on one section after turning left it’s 20, all done on cruise so no problem sticking to the limits, apart from the 20 which is too slow for cruise but the speed bumps on this section don’t encourage anything faster, then it’s back to 30 and finally a 60 zone where you would have to be exceptionally good to do that speed around the twisty winding roads, but the farm vehicles and cyclists are usually enough to slow people down. If clear then I would be doing a steady 40/45 on cruise which means I don’t have to slow down and brake at the bends, much smoother ride. The journey takes me approximately one hour, however if I really push it speed wise constantly going over the limits I find I can get there up to 5/8 minutes sooner (and more stressed out) at the end of the day speed limits should be set at a sensible level but there will always be those who it doesn’t apply to.

 

[Sapper520]

You’d be lucky to reach 20mph when travelling through Bristol, and a few other towns and cities I travel through.

But 20mph in built up areas doesn’t bother me. The science behind these decisions (other than the safety aspects) I have to trust in more knowledgeable people.

 

[joe and sue]

The main problem as I see it, is that too many people see speed limits as targets, and never drive according to the road / traffic conditions,

 

[PaulyP]

The main problem as I see it, is that too many people see speed limits as targets, and never drive according to the road / traffic conditions,

That is so true, on a motorway you are often lucky to make 70 in some areas, those same areas during the night can be deserted but common sense should prevail at those times.

 

[jongood]

Whether it is appropriate or not is the decision of the appropriate lawmakers. We all have the right to lobby those lawmakers (some also have the right to replace them at an election) if we think the decision is wrong. Once the decision is made, though, nobody is above the law.

So if the lawmakers have decided that a 30mph limit is appropriate for the situation, is it OK to be overidden by a politician?

The Highways Agency is responsible for determining speed limits on the trunk road network, and local traffic authorities are responsible for determining speed limits on the local road network.

In most cases they would have had the opportunity to set a lower limit but didnt.

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[ManTheVan]

20mph limits in inner cities seem to work. They keep residents safer if there’s a collision and reduce emissions. At least it’s possible to avoid city centres if you’re on a longer journey.

I wasn’t aware of the proposal to extend the scheme to all towns. There is anecdotal evidence to suggest, though, that in the areas where they have introduced 50mph limits for miles and miles of motorway (M4 at Newport and Port Talbot), there is often miles and miles of tailback, (esp at Newport) resulting in miles and miles of stationary traffic all emitting more pollution than if they had been allowed to proceed at the national speed limit on those perfectly good motorways.

Air quality at Port Talbot has been hideous for decades, in any case, due to the chemical works, not because of the traffic on the M4.

 

[PP Bear]

I also guess that something needs to be done regarding calming traffic down.

I used to visit the Honda plant in Swindon on a regular basis and they turned out new cars at a rate of 1 every 2 mins, so times that by all the other car plants and it’s a large number. Then multiply the fact that cars last longer and you can see why the roads are busy and congested and it’s only set to get worse. i also think we have the easiest driving test rules and some of those given a license struggle to read, let along fully understand speed or what the road signs actually mean.

 

[gus-lopez]

On the docks at Dover and other places, do you stick to the 20mph limit?

Amazing? Never occurred to me.

Many towns in Spain have a 20 kph limit....thats 12 mph...

I've only actually seen one person driving at that speed around our way in the 30 limit. Usually they do it watching the vegetables grow.

like the traffic light system, going too fast, traffic lights change to red and camera fitted for those who don't stop, right speed green light, carry on, seen them a lot in Spain

Never seen one here with cameras and worst of all is if you stop , a traffico car will likely run in the back of you ,as they don't stop.

Certain cyclists will also be a challenge I‘m sure.

Yes same problem here in Spain in any 20,30,40 limit.

all done on cruise so no problem

Amazing. When we came over last month I said to my wife that the 2 things you don't need in the UK is sunglasses and cruise control.

 

[slowdriver]

Works well in my village and in Oxford. I don't see the problem.

 

[gus-lopez]

and reduce emissions.

As the OP said it doesn't. 20mph in 2nd will always generate far more pollution.

that in the areas where they have introduced 50mph limits for miles and miles of motorway (M4 at Newport and Port Talbot), there is often miles and miles of tailback,

Because the problem is most people cannot drive and maintain a constant speed.

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[Barti Ddu]

I'm sorry, but to say that you are a "fast but sensible driver" who hasn't ever had an accident (except for the 7 rear end shunts) is really quite funny.

Maybe being hit from behind as you panic brake when you belatedly spot the speed camera?!

You've got to love a "road warrior".

 

[ManTheVan]

Because the problem is most people cannot drive and maintain a constant speed.

You’re right, but logic also says that if vehicles have to slow from 70 to 50, then the vehicles behind them also have to slow, even though they are still in the 70 zone, so the vehicles behind THEM also have to slow. Hence, tailback! The Magor area is horrendous and there’s no alternative (unless you divert into Newport) if you’re trying to get to South Wales.

The variable speed limit on the M5 around Bristol works very well, because they can alter the speed limits to keep traffic moving.

 

[jongood]

I live on a narrowish country road, just room for two cars to pass and great care when in the motorhome. Our house is also on a Z bend and yet idiots drive along the road at the legal speed limit of 60mph. I would dearly love to see a 40mph limit on roads such as mine.

We have a 20mph limit through a village close by where there is also a school. The limit is quite rightly religiously observed at ALL times of the day not just school time. I would be happy to see a 20mph speed limit in town despite the OPs objections if only to see less accidents and much less injury to persons.

France has 30km/h limits everywhere in villages, I don't see a problem at obeying these laws

The blanket speed limit for built up areas in France is 50kph so 31mph. Like elsewhere there are increasing numbers of lower limits but only where they are deemed appropriate.

My issue with a blanket 20mph is that its going to apply to one horse towns in the middle of nowhere and there's a lot of them in mid wales especially. Wales used to be a nice place to visit but its so overregulated and inward looking now I don't bother and its only 10 miles up the road.

 

[jongood]

As the OP said it doesn't. 20mph in 2nd will always generate far more pollution.

Because the problem is most people cannot drive and maintain a constant speed.

especially at 20mph because the cruise control won't work.

 

[Soycd]

And so according to the BBC website, Wales is to have a blanket 20mph limit in towns. See here - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-62020427

Bravo for the dream people. These are the idiots who do not realise that there are just a few drawbacks to such restrictions.

1. Less emissions. Err, no. Complete nonsense. You cannot drive a modern car at 20 mph without being in (probably) second gear. Anybody with the most basic understanding of the internal combustion engine will realise that a car in second gear will have many more evolutions and sparks and bangs and pops than a car in fourth. Hence we will see more pollution rather than less.

2. Ok but cars will drive through town at lower speeds. Err, really sorry but no. When I was driving for a living and covering huge distances every year (at very high speeds most of the time and over 100k a year with never an accident by the way), there was, for a time an absolutely ridiculous 30mph limit on motorways and dual carriageways through roadworks. For many years now it has been 40mph. Why was it increased? Because the average speed through road repairs WAS FASTER when the slower speed limit was in force. The reason? Because research has proven many times that when a speed limit is set stupidly low, motorists not only ignore it but drive at HIGHER speeds than they would have done before.

3. Ok but I am a know all who knows nothing really. Err, I may well be a know all (as, the flat cap, 45mph motorhome drivers who keep to that speed whatever the tailback and wherever they are, be it dual carriageways or outside schools at 3.45pm would say) but when as mayor of our village, against my vote a sensible 40mph limit was reduced to 30mph, despite the fact that the arrow straight main route only passed four grand houses and there were few if any junctions. We laughingly, in hindsight, took turns with a radar gun borrowed from the Police. Speed went UP from an average of 43mph to 48mph. And that was over several test periods. I have to say here that despite being a fast driver it was fun to see fellow motorists brake hard and the look of terror on their faces when they saw 'the gun'. I felt very big and important (a bit like traffic policemen who seemingly never try to stop dangerous drivers but only people driving sensibly but above the speed limit).

4. Well ok but people will be more aware and therefore there will be fewer accidents. On this I can only question the rather suspect logic. I have no actual example to give other than past personal experience. First, a question to you dear reader. On the docks at Dover and other places, do you stick to the 20mph limit? I fear that if you say yes then there may be a few Melton Mowberries in the air (pork pies). My personal view is that when driving at 20mph I am likely to pay less attention than when at a more sensible 30mph. I would be interested in your viewpoint.

Anyway here is to the new cloud cuckoo land of imaginary 'ideal worlds' where the Police say, there are no more RTA's (road traffic accidents), there are only offences to be prosecuted to the enth degree.

Before the deluge of complaints I would say that while I do a far lower mileage now than in my previous life, in over two million miles of motoring, I have never been in an accident other the being hit from behind when stationary, not once but seven times. Maybe they were bored and distracted with artificially low speed limits set by the flat cap wearing cyclist brigade?

Discuss fellow road warriors (and please move over if you are a slow driver to allow normal traffic to make progress). Thank you.
Paul

Less people die when hit by cars that are travelling at 20 mph than at 30 mph. Isn't that enough reason to reduce the speed limit?

https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/11-01-T30.pdf

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