Use of LPG strongly discouraged in Rapido manual. Thoughts?

[Lenny HB]

By different user reports the filters “collect almost nothing in years” to “clog up in 2 weeks”. It seems to depend heavily upon the source of LPG. In some places or countries it is much worse than in others. Last time I checked my filters after about a year of use and the pads were like new. Either the filters don’t work or the gas is clean, but I think that the filters are a must have item for any gas, LPG or not.

I've found just one bottle of French or Spanish LPG and I can have 5mm of oil in the bottom of the filter using UK LPG don't get any.

 

[enark]

I've found just one bottle of French or Spanish LPG and I can have 5mm of oil in the bottom of the filter using UK LPG don't get any.

Thats what i thought, maybe Propane has less oils than Butane? UK LPG been mostly Propane?

 

[lebowski]

I asked about Rapido not advising using LPG in their manual over on the French Rapido FB group. Plenty of people run it here and plenty have had it fitted by their dealers. I couldn't find anyone who has had any problems since fitting a refillable system. As someone commented, it's more likely that Rapido just jumped on the 'dangers of LPG' bandwagon years ago, just to get themselves out of any possible warranty claims.
I am Mr Worry but if I can find a suitable location for the filler point, I will be fitting a system to my 8096, so much easier than faffing around swapping bottles when going to Spain.

 

[enark]

I asked about Rapido not advising using LPG in their manual over on the French Rapido FB group. Plenty of people run it here and plenty have had it fitted by their dealers. I couldn't find anyone who has had any problems since fitting a refillable system. As someone commented, it's more likely that Rapido just jumped on the 'dangers of LPG' bandwagon years ago, just to get themselves out of any possible warranty claims.
I am Mr Worry but if I can find a suitable location for the filler point, I will be fitting a system to my 8096, so much easier than faffing around swapping bottles when going to Spain.

Mine is in the gas bottle enclosure, its been fine so far.

Ideally i would have placed it externally, but it easily already installed.

Pros are it keeps it clean and its easy to install or remove without leaving a hole in the side.

Cons are maybe one day i may get refused filling up?

 

[nicholsong]

Mine is in the gas bottle enclosure, its been fine so far.

Ideally i would have placed it externally, but it easily already installed.

Pros are it keeps it clean and its easy to install or remove without leaving a hole in the side.

Cons are maybe one day i may get refused filling up?

Gaslow sell a 'dummy' filler fitting to fill that hole if one removes the filling system completely.

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[Rowls1958]

The Autogas dispensed here in Britain and Northern Europe tends to be mostly propane all year round. Other countries notably in Southern Europe, dispense a higher mix of butane during the summer months with more of a propane mix during winter months.
In almost 20 x years of touring abroad and filling with Autogas, I've never had a problem with it during normal use, though we tend to winter away in sunnier climes.

HTH,

Jock.

What is Autogas ? Can you use this in any refillable cylinders eg Gaslow, Gasit Alugas etc ? Thanks

 

[meanders]

Yes. Its the gas sold at fuel stations for vehicles that run on LPG, not that there are many available nowadays. And yes any of the refillable systems. Just drive up, hook up and fill.

 

[JockandRita]

What is Autogas ? Can you use this in any refillable cylinders eg Gaslow, Gasit Alugas etc ? Thanks

Wot e said below.

Yes. Its the gas sold at fuel stations for vehicles that run on LPG, not that there are many available nowadays. And yes any of the refillable systems. Just drive up, hook up and fill.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[JockandRita]

Gaslow sell a 'dummy' filler fitting to fill that hole if one removes the filling system completely.

I just fitted a vent cover front and rear of the door, after fitting my preferred filler point below it.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Bessy765]

Been using underslung tanks for over 25 years have a 25 and 30 litre on current van now five years old. Change the inline filter every year not found it dirty so far.

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[mgibbons]

I emailed Gaslow regarding their thoughts on the two questions. Their response is below:

"Refillable systems are fitted to any Leisure Vehicle be it an underslung refillable tank or onboard refillable bottles.

All of our Swift dealers will fit refillable systems to them if the customer requires it for EU travels.

With Bulkhead regulators now fitted to all Leisure Vehicles, either Propane or Butane or a mix of both are perfectly fine to use. Our refillable bottles even come equipped with filters inside the bottles and regulator filters are widely used. This is for all bottles types whether it is standard Calor/Flogas exchange bottles or Refillable bottle/tank types.

In the UK our bottles are filled identically the same as standard propane Calor or Flogas bottles. It is the exact same propane mix, meaning it operates perfectly fine in temperatures of -42 degrees.

As you travel throughout Europe with the milder temperatures, then can mix butane and propane together and it still operate perfectly fine. "

 

[mgibbons]

Thanks for the various thoughts and comments. I believe that given what I have heard I shall proceed with the following:

• Fit a 11kg Gaslow as the main cylinder
• Keep the 6.5kg Flogas as the second backup cylinder - I may after some experience replace this with a 6.5kg Flogas
• Retain my 907 cylinder which I can use for the BBQ and as a last resort emergency cylinder in the knowledge that you can buy them all over Europe

I am informed that the Gaslow cylinders include filters - see previous posting - so assume that no additional filters are required. Would the consensus be that this is correct / adequate?

Cheers
Mark

 

[Randomstop]

Thanks for the various thoughts and comments. I believe that given what I have heard I shall proceed with the following:

• Fit a 11kg Gaslow as the main cylinder
• Keep the 6.5kg Flogas as the second backup cylinder - I may after some experience replace this with a 6.5kg Flogas
• Retain my 907 cylinder which I can use for the BBQ and as a last resort emergency cylinder in the knowledge that you can buy them all over Europe

I am informed that the Gaslow cylinders include filters - see previous posting - so assume that no additional filters are required. Would the consensus be that this is correct / adequate?

Cheers
Mark

I wonder where the oil/impurities caught by the “inside” filter go to? Are they staying inside the cylinder?

 

[gordoledfoot]

Hi
I am looking to replace my existing Flogas cylinders with Gaslow refillable ones.

This is because recently when travelling on the continent I ran out of gas and could not get a refill due to the lack of availability of propane / Flogas refills in Europe.

While in the final stages of planning my order I noticed that Rapido (I have a Rapido 896f) do not recommend that I do this – see the attached extract from the owner’s manual.

I wonder if anyone had any thoughts on those recommendations?

Best regards
Mark



View attachment 1028979

I have a GasBank setup and have experienced triuble finding stations that either offer LPG /GLP or are prepared to let you or thier driveway staff fill up from their driveway nozzles. it appears in Spain at least that domestic gas is taxed differently to vehicle gas hence aome of the confusion. Alsothe longer term trend is that fossil fuels are gradually being phased out so goodbye gas, hello solar electric.

 

[newtonz]

I have had Gaslow on my Rapido since 2011 and did have a regulator block up a few years ago. I seem to remember a thread pointing to suspicion of the lining of the rubber pipes deteriorating. I changed my pipes to the superior Gaslow ones and have had no problems since.

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[StillGoing]

I must admit I keep thinking about fitting since changing to gaslow, i assume as i have two cylinders I need one per cylinder?

Yes, one per cylinder fitted on the regulator input ports.

 

[mgibbons]

I wonder where the oil/impurities caught by the “inside” filter go to? Are they staying inside the cylinder?

Correct. Here is the response from gaslow

"You won’t need any filters externally to your regulator as our bottles will provide that for the longevity of the cylinder life.

You will benefit from a filter for the fill side of our system https://www.gaslowdirect.com/product/gaslow-in-line-lpg-filler-filter/ this will stop any debris and particles from the LPG bulk tanks when filling. "

 

[PlacidoD]

What I take from this thread is that it is best to fill up with LPG in the UK wherever possible and worth investing in a 2nd refillable cylinder to make that possible.

 

[Brains]

Correct. Here is the response from gaslow

"You won’t need any filters externally to your regulator as our bottles will provide that for the longevity of the cylinder life.

You will benefit from a filter for the fill side of our system https://www.gaslowdirect.com/product/gaslow-in-line-lpg-filler-filter/ this will stop any debris and particles from the LPG bulk tanks when filling. "

I seem to remember Basildog NOT recommending these filters for some reason.

 

[Brains]

Thats what i thought, maybe Propane has less oils than Butane? UK LPG been mostly Propane?

That is my thinking as well

In Summary:

The higher the Propane mix, the better.
Propane would appear to have less oily residue (and works at lower temperatures).

Butane seems to have a higher oily residue.
(And is for summer use only, as it does not really work much below +10c).

LPG with a large percentage of Butane is what is supplied in France/Spain in the Summer.
LPG that is mostly Propane is what is supplied in the UK/Portugal/Most of northern Europe all year around.

In summary, try to avoid buying Autogas LPG in France/Spain in the summer.

Basildog is the above broadly correct ?

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[Do Ron Ron]

Hi
I am looking to replace my existing Flogas cylinders with Gaslow refillable ones.

This is because recently when travelling on the continent I ran out of gas and could not get a refill due to the lack of availability of propane / Flogas refills in Europe.

While in the final stages of planning my order I noticed that Rapido (I have a Rapido 896f) do not recommend that I do this – see the attached extract from the owner’s manual.

I wonder if anyone had any thoughts on those recommendations?

Best regards
Mark



View attachment 1028979

Strange, I got the gaslow twin cylinders fitted when I bought my Rapido 696F in 2022, and they were fitted by the Rapido distributor/agent . no mention of any issues then.

 

[Basildog]

Lenny HB
I reckon the oily residue is a lubrication method for the LPG fuelling/injection system for its intended use....powering engines.
That why it far less in an LPG BOTTLE.

That’s just another urban myth.
Just heavy ends as found in all LPG whether in exchange cylinders like Calor etc or bought from a pump ,

 

[Basildog]

I seem to remember Basildog NOT recommending these filters for some reason.

We could sell and promote the use of the filler adapter type filters but as far as we are concerned it will increase the discharge volume when removing the filler gun, believe me it makes a significant difference in discharge when removing the gun , I haven’t actually measured the exact volume but it will almost certainly be over the permitted level ,it it’s quite a scare for most with the normal level of discharge when disconnecting

 

[Basildog]

That is my thinking as well

In Summary:

The higher the Propane mix, the better.
Propane would appear to have less oily residue (and works at lower temperatures).

Butane seems to have a higher oily residue.
(And is for summer use only, as it does not really work much below +10c).

LPG with a large percentage of Butane is what is supplied in France/Spain in the Summer.
LPG that is mostly Propane is what is supplied in the UK/Portugal/Most of northern Europe all year around.

In summary, try to avoid buying Autogas LPG in France/Spain in the summer.

Basildog is the above broadly correct ?

Here’s some information on the percentages of Propane / Butane :
Propane/butane mixture in countries around Europe
The table below contains a list of countries and most common propane/butane mixtures. This data should be seen only as to give you a perspective. Mixtures can vary from station to station and from company to company.
Countries LPG Grades Reported Propane/Butane mixture
Austria A from 100%/0% to 80%/20%
Belgium A 60%/40% all year
Czech Republic A-C 60%/40% in winter,
40%/60% in summer
Denmark A 70%/30% from 1/09 to 31/05
Finland A 95%/5% from 1/09 to 31/05
France A-C grade A from 1/11 to 31/03,
grade C in summer
Germany A-E grade B from 01/12 to 31/03,
grade E in summer
Greece D 20%/80% all year
Hungary C 40%/60% all year
Ireland A 100%/0% all year
Italy A-C,
D-E from 90%/10% to 20%/80% from 1/11 to 31/03,
grade D or E in summer
Norway / 100%/0% all year
Poland A-D grade A from 1/11 to 31/03,
grade D in summer
Portugal A 92%/8%
Slovenia C 35%/65%
Sweden / 100%/0% all year
Spain C 35%/65% from 1/11 to 31/03
Turkey B 50%/50% from 1/11 to 31/03,
30%/70% in summer
United Kingdom A 100%/0% all year
Source aegpl.com, the European LPG Association
Autogas grades
The LPG grades are defined by the temperature at which they reach the minimum pressure of 150 kPa.
LPG grades Temperature Possible Propane/Butane mixtures
grade A -10°C from 100%/0% to 60%/40%
grade B -5°C from 60%/40% to 40%/60%
grade C 0°C from 40%/60% to 30%/70%
grade D +10°C from 30%/70% to 10%/90%
grade E +20°C from 10%/90% to 0%/100%

 

[Ingwe]

Filled with 119 litres yesterday at €0.53 on the Spanish border.

At Ayamonte?

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[Brains]

Here’s some information on the percentages of Propane / Butane :
Propane/butane mixture in countries around Europe
The table below contains a list of countries and most common propane/butane mixtures. This data should be seen only as to give you a perspective. Mixtures can vary from station to station and from company to company.
Countries LPG Grades Reported Propane/Butane mixture
Austria A from 100%/0% to 80%/20%
Belgium A 60%/40% all year
Czech Republic A-C 60%/40% in winter,
40%/60% in summer
Denmark A 70%/30% from 1/09 to 31/05
Finland A 95%/5% from 1/09 to 31/05
France A-C grade A from 1/11 to 31/03,
grade C in summer
Germany A-E grade B from 01/12 to 31/03,
grade E in summer
Greece D 20%/80% all year
Hungary C 40%/60% all year
Ireland A 100%/0% all year
Italy A-C,
D-E from 90%/10% to 20%/80% from 1/11 to 31/03,
grade D or E in summer
Norway / 100%/0% all year
Poland A-D grade A from 1/11 to 31/03,
grade D in summer
Portugal A 92%/8%
Slovenia C 35%/65%
Sweden / 100%/0% all year
Spain C 35%/65% from 1/11 to 31/03
Turkey B 50%/50% from 1/11 to 31/03,
30%/70% in summer
United Kingdom A 100%/0% all year
Source aegpl.com, the European LPG Association
Autogas grades
The LPG grades are defined by the temperature at which they reach the minimum pressure of 150 kPa.
LPG grades Temperature Possible Propane/Butane mixtures
grade A -10°C from 100%/0% to 60%/40%
grade B -5°C from 60%/40% to 40%/60%
grade C 0°C from 40%/60% to 30%/70%
grade D +10°C from 30%/70% to 10%/90%
grade E +20°C from 10%/90% to 0%/100%

Interesting:

So the only countries that do 100% grade 'A' Propane all year around are the UK, Eire, Norway and Sweden!

And Germany & Italy sell Grade 'E' in the summer!

 

[Basildog]

Some interesting theories and beliefs about LPG on here
As already stated the manufacturers love to blame anything they don’t fully understand, which is highlighted here by the fact they use the terminology LPG ?
It’s all LPG regardless of the way it was purchased / obtained, be that in an exchange type cylinder or dispensed from an LPG pump.
Our own thoughts on filters are that they provide reassurance to some owners , simply put the sintered type of filter found in filling adaptor filters and in some cylinder valves will help remove any large particles, rust , paint , grit etc , they will NOT have any effect on reducing the heavy ends (oily substances)
As for inline filters they may or may not help, we see just as many oiled up regulators from Calor type exchange cylinders just as someone mentioned earlier.
Through many years of experience we firmly believe that the vapour contains minuscule levels of heavy ends (oily substances) some supplies more than other but no easily identified specific source.
Some regulators and pipe work can literally have oil pouring out on removal.
Do I have any filters on my own LPG systems

 

[Basildog]

Interesting:

So the only countries that do 100% grade 'A' Propane all year around are the UK, Eire, Norway and Sweden!

And Germany & Italy sell Grade 'E' in the summer!

I guess it would also depend on different factors like suppliers choice and stock levels etc, those figures are probably more guidance on maximum percentage ranges, not set in stone.
Simply put the more Butane content the more likely you are to have potential issues in temperatures below 10°C

 

[stewartwebr]

At Ayamonte?

I think it was not sure to be honest I just stuck the coordinates into the Sat Nav.

 

[Janeanne1965]

Hi
I am looking to replace my existing Flogas cylinders with Gaslow refillable ones.

This is because recently when travelling on the continent I ran out of gas and could not get a refill due to the lack of availability of propane / Flogas refills in Europe.

While in the final stages of planning my order I noticed that Rapido (I have a Rapido 896f) do not recommend that I do this – see the attached extract from the owner’s manual.

I wonder if anyone had any thoughts on those recommendations?

Best regards
Mark



View attachment 1028979

This sounds like rubbish to me. We bought a brand new Rapido 8096DF motorhome last year. I paid extra to have the Gaslow refillable LPG bottles fitted. We also had a Rapido 8096DF for 8 years prior to this and again it had the Gaslow system.

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