refillable gas bottles used residual values

[mfw]

Got to say the values these fetch even very old ones and prices asked for them are silly money - considering you can buy new and delivered for £150 is it not true the old saying a fool and his money are easily parted

 

[Minxy]

Depends on how old and what bits you get with them, hence why I suggest those selling put the 'use by' date on their adverts so people can make an educated decision.

 

[mfw]

Depends on how old and what bits you get with them, hence why I suggest those selling put the 'use by' date on their adverts so people can make an educated decision.

I'm using purely the cost of a bottle as a lot dont advertise with fittings - but stainless reinforced hoses can be bought 2nd hand and posted without a problem saving fuel to collect

 

[Pausim]

My Alugas cylinder came with a 10 year certificate and by the time it is 8 years old it probably has little more than scrap value, except that cutting one open for recycling might be bit too exciting.

 

[Tykatem]

My Alugas cylinder came with a 10 year certificate and by the time it is 8 years old it probably has little more than scrap value, except that cutting one open for recycling might be bit too exciting.

Just think of the possibilities!

Pete

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[mfw]

My Alugas cylinder came with a 10 year certificate and by the time it is 8 years old it probably has little more than scrap value, except that cutting one open for recycling might be bit too exciting.

You are underestimating its value someone will pay stupid money for it probably 50% of new price or more ebay certainly

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Can’t they be tested and have recertification at companies such as this?

 

[mfw]

Can’t they be tested and have recertification at companies such as this?

They probably can do but i bet transport cost and testing new or overhauled valve wont be cheap - diving cylinder have visuals then hydraulic test 2.5 and 5 yrs now i think - hydraulic is always more expensive - i've sold dive cylinders on ebay auction needing a test for more than it cost for a new cylinder

 

[Pausim]

You are underestimating its value someone will pay stupid money for it probably 50% of new price or more ebay certainly

You are very probably right but I would feel guilty if I sold one without a valid certificate, other than for scrap. Indeed I might be guilty of something if I did. Imagine if one caught fire in a petrol station and it was subsequently discovered that the current owner had bought it in good faith from someone who knew it was out of date, the insurance claim might not stop with the current owner.

 

[Minxy]

I've just emailed Gaslow again (I did it originally in 2017) to ask about the testing/checking of cylinders that have reached their 'test by' date to see if any decision has yet been made as to how it will be done and the cost, I'll let you all know the outcome assuming I get a response.

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[Hettie's Crew]

I've just emailed Gaslow again (I did it originally in 2017) to ask about the testing/checking of cylinders that have reached their 'test by' date to see if any decision has yet been made as to how it will be done and the cost, I'll let you all know the outcome assuming I get a response.

I suspect it’s not in their interest, commercially, to advocate reuse. They’d rather we all bought new again. A cylinder is a cylinder though and Gaslow will buy them from someone the same as Gasit and others. Regardless of who originally supplied them they should be able to be certified again after testing. When I worked in the NHS some of the gas cylinders supplied where ancient, used over and over again.

 

[EX51SSS]

All gas cylinders have a test date. There are quite a few places that will do the test.
Basically, at the test date, the value is removed, the cylinder pressure tested, re sprayed, new valves fitted and looks brand new but why shouldn't it be?
There are cylinders at the major gas suppliers and there are many that are decades old.
Some years ago, the cylinders were re coloured in accordance with EU regulations and it took 10 years for all the cylinders to be re coloured as they were only required to upgrade the colour at test

 

[mfw]

All gas cylinders have a test date. There are quite a few places that will do the test.
Basically, at the test date, the value is removed, the cylinder pressure tested, re sprayed, new valves fitted and looks brand new but why shouldn't it be?
There are cylinders at the major gas suppliers and there are many that are decades old.
Some years ago, the cylinders were re coloured in accordance with EU regulations and it took 10 years for all the cylinders to be re coloured as they were only required to upgrade the colour at test

On what you say logical option is exchange and local dealers selling gaslow giving new/reconditioned bottle back and like calor a lorry going around collecting them but factor in transport is it feasible - or negotiate with large gas supplier who have to have their bottles tested - it is a nightmare really but if i've had 10yrs use out of a bottle it has paid for itself so i could accept if they cant organize testing and bottle is only scrap value

 

[EX51SSS]

On what you say logical option is exchange and local dealers selling gaslow giving new/reconditioned bottle back and like calor a lorry going around collecting them but factor in transport is it feasible - or negotiate with large gas supplier who have to have their bottles tested - it is a nightmare really but if i've had 10yrs use out of a bottle it has paid for itself so i could accept if they cant organize testing and bottle is only scrap value

Well actually I don't think there are any suppliers with any stocks of Gaslow cylinders yet as I'm not sure any are due for re test or if they are, not many.
Over the next few years, I daresay that more will become available for retest and that's where the cylinder retest companies will come into their own.

 

[Neil Bedwin]

There is a difference between butane cylinders and gas cylinders that contain compressed air, helium, oxygen etc. Butane/Propane cylinders are seam welded, thin walled, low pressure cylinders that are cheap to make. Gas cylinders are deep drawn, thick walled and quite expensive to make. Thus it is worth hydrostatically testing a gas cylinder but not a butane cylinder.
Transportable Pressure Receptacles (to give them their .Gov name) are required to be tested every 10 years. The diving industry insists on a 2.5 year visual inspection and a 5 year hydrostatic test purely because they are used underwater. The visual inspection looks for dents and gouges in the metal and rust on the inside. The hydrostatic test involves filling the cylinder with water and pumping the pressure to 1.5 times the working pressure. This is can be as high as 460bar or higher. The expansion of the cylinder is measured and then the pressure reduced to atmospheric. The size of the cylinder is measured again and any 'permanent set' noted. If the expansion and permanent set are within spec for the cylinder they are stamped for a further period.

Probably more info than you need to know but every day is a learning day......

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[mfw]

There is a difference between butane cylinders and gas cylinders that contain compressed air, helium, oxygen etc. Butane/Propane cylinders are seam welded, thin walled, low pressure cylinders that are cheap to make. Gas cylinders are deep drawn, thick walled and quite expensive to make. Thus it is worth hydrostatically testing a gas cylinder but not a butane cylinder.
Transportable Pressure Receptacles (to give them their .Gov name) are required to be tested every 10 years. The diving industry insists on a 2.5 year visual inspection and a 5 year hydrostatic test purely because they are used underwater. The visual inspection looks for dents and gouges in the metal and rust on the inside. The hydrostatic test involves filling the cylinder with water and pumping the pressure to 1.5 times the working pressure. This is can be as high as 460bar or higher. The expansion of the cylinder is measured and then the pressure reduced to atmospheric. The size of the cylinder is measured again and any 'permanent set' noted. If the expansion and permanent set are within spec for the cylinder they are stamped for a further period.

Probably more info than you need to know but every day is a learning day......

I used to go diving so understand that - dive cylinder can fail on pillar valve thread as you will know maybe from getting knocked at some point - it still costs for the test - but there is a lot of them test stations around - there is no guarantee that gaslow will start testing the bottles - it seems to me the company just talks about it.
Paying the silly residual prices on old cylinders just seems a big gamble - probably gonna be £25 or more to test and if it fails £25+ out of pocket and cylinder is scrap value - i'm certain people will run them out of test date but until someone has a problem and insurance wont pay out you dont know - new bottle cost works out at £15 a year over the 10 yrs so certainly not expensive

 

[Minxy]

Well actually I don't think there are any suppliers with any stocks of Gaslow cylinders yet as I'm not sure any are due for re test or if they are, not many.
Over the next few years, I daresay that more will become available for retest and that's where the cylinder retest companies will come into their own.

I believe the first lot of Gaslow cylinders were sold in 2004 so as these had a 15 year 'life' 2019 is the year they will need testing but its difficult to say how many as I don't know what the uptake was initially. Even if it isn't economically viable for owners to have them tested and re-certified that doesn't mean that the suppliers can't do so 'en masse', so if people buy new ones instead they could get a reduction for 'trading-in' an old one, even if the old ones aren't then re-used they will still have some scrap value.

 

[Minxy]

Oh, the other thing to think about is the hoses ... the steel braided ones have a 20 year life but the thick rubber ones are only 10, so whilst the original 2004 steel ones still have another 5 years left I'm not sure if any of the thick rubber ones will be needing replacing yet as I can't remember when they were launched.

 

[mfw]

Oh, the other thing to think about is the hoses ... the steel braided ones have a 20 year life but the thick rubber ones are only 10, so whilst the original 2004 steel ones still have another 5 years left I'm not sure if any of the thick rubber ones will be needing replacing yet as I can't remember when they were launched.

Thought the rubber ones were 5 years

 

[Minxy]

Thought the rubber ones were 5 years

That's the standard 'basic' type I believe, the thick ones such as those supplied by Gas-it are 10 years, that's what I was told when I needed one for our system.

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[gus-lopez]

Transportable Pressure Receptacles (to give them their .Gov name) are required to be tested every 10 years.

Would that include under slung ones?
Mines built in to one side of the van behind the skirting & is now 30 years old . But spanish

new bottle cost works out at £15 a year over the 10 yrs so certainly not expensive

I'm in agreement

 

[mfw]

Would that include under slung ones?
Mines built in to one side of the van behind the skirting & is now 30 years old . But spanish

I'm in agreement

Open to the elements 30 yrs old you probably are taking a bit of a gamble on tank condition more importantly how would insurance view it if you had to claim

 

[mfw]

That's the standard 'basic' type I believe, the thick ones such as those supplied by Gas-it are 10 years, that's what I was told when I needed one for our system.

Probably reason some of the package deals are so good then ( cheap 5 yr hoses is what i mean ) not the better quality ones

 

[Riverbankannie]

This is an interesting thread.
So I have no paperwork about my underslung Gasit system which was on the van when bought new.
Apart from reading this thread, I would probably carry on using the system until something failed or perhaps a helpful MOT tester mentioned it when up on ramps if something was visually obvious, but it’s not part of MOT so cannot rely on that.
How many people on MHF would know anything about lifetimes of these systems let alone the wider motorhoming population especially as vehicles get older and change hands?

I cannot imagine it would be date checked on a habitation service either as it’s a difficult crawl under there.

 

[Minxy]

I cannot imagine it would be date checked on a habitation service either as it’s a difficult crawl under there.

As they are supposed to check the condition and working of the gas system (not necessarily a gas-tight test though), they should still carry out a visual inspection regardless of where it is located - they'll put it up on ramps etc to do it if necessary so no crawling should be required.

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[mfw]

metal containers can rust from inside out so i doubt visually looking from outside is much use especially if it can get condensation inside cylinder - like the outside of the cylinders get

 

[Lenny HB]

Thought the rubber ones were 5 years

Low pressure ones 5 years
High pressure ones 10 years

 

[Lenny HB]

metal containers can rust from inside out so i doubt visually looking from outside is much use especially if it can get condensation inside cylinder - like the outside of the cylinders get

Aluminium ones have a coating on the inside.
When Calor first launched aluminium cyclinders they were recalled as they were corroding from inside an effect of contact with the liquid gas.

 

[Lenny HB]

As for people getting them tested at the set time apart from us enlightened few on here no one will have a clue. A bit like payload.

I can't see a dealer taking refillable bottles out on a hab service to check the date. They are used to most vans having exchange bottles.

 

[mfw]

Low pressure ones 5 years
High pressure ones 10 years

Not quite sure what you mean here fill side probably high pressure or bottle to regulator which would probably be low pressures or you pay your money and make a choice - mine are stainless reinforced anyway

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