Overfilled LPG bottles

[ironduck]

My neighbour yesterday was concerned that he could smell gas and he could hear it and see bubbles through applied detergent coming from the top of his bottles. He had very recently filled up at a garage.

I thought it was impossible to overfill bottles at a garage because the system had an 80% shut-off system.

It was a very hot day.

 

[rosalan]

More likely that the top connector has a small leak, something not unknown on these bottles I believe.

 

[tonyidle]

Where exactly was the leak?

 

[Robert Clark]

I was advised by an engineer from Gaslow that it is possible to overfill a refillable system.
He suggested two scenarios:
Debris in the filler tube which stops the shut off valve from closing.

Too high pressure at the pump.


https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/had-a-chat-with-a-gaslow-engineer.154474/

 

[Minxy]

What bottles has he got ... I can't recall ever seeing green ones and why have the fittings apparently got blue tape on them???? Also the one on the left has white tape too and the one at the front appears to have some 'gunge' on top!

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[scotjimland]

why have the fittings apparently got blue tape on them????

PTFE tape for LPG .. http://www.cobasuk.com/voodoo-blue-sealing-tape

 

[Two on Tour]

http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/prakto-motorhome-refillable-210-ltr-steel-gas-bottle-904-p.asp

 

[scotjimland]

why does he think it is liquid LPG and not gas ... a picture of where the leak is would help...

 

[Lenny HB]

Like Mel I was wondering why there is tape on the joints, you are not supposed to use anything on them so you could have a leak at one of the fittings.

Edit: that photo shows the blue tape but it may not be tape maybe a jointing compound.

 

[Reallyretired]

If there is a leak this has nothing to do with the cylinder being overfilled, why does he think it is overfilled anyway.

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[scotjimland]

Like Mel I was wondering why there is tape on the joints, you are not supposed to use anything on them so you could have a leak at one of the fittings.

you don't use tape on compression fittings, and none being used on them in this photo..

the blue tape is not on 'joints' it is on the threaded part of the fittings which are tapered and use PTFE tape as a lubricant and seal..

as you say, it may not be tape but a thread compound.. does the same job

 

[Basildog]

I have seen 2 different failures this weekend, one lady had jets of liquid lpg shooting out from the prv on a fixed tank which may have been overfilled .
The other was a picture posted of the weld on a Gasit cylinder leaking lpg .
You only have to look to see the quality of the refillable cylinders compared to Calor cylinders , people started saying that all the refillable cylinders should be recalled for safety checks!
I would seriously doubt any of the refillable suppliers would survive financially if they had to do that and also who would instigate it as no one really knows which regulations if any actually apply to refillable systems.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

What bottles has he got ... I can't recall ever seeing green ones and why have the fittings apparently got blue tape on them???? Also the one on the left has white tape too and the one at the front appears to have some 'gunge' on top!

They are the same as my old ones and the blue tape is ptfe tape specifically for gas. I had a similar leak with a new gaslow bottle a few years ago, which they fixed. They are prakto brand made I think in Belgium. Mine were very good.

 

[scotjimland]

the blue tape is ptfe tape specifically for gas.

yes indeed,

I answered @Minxy Girl 's question in post #6 with link to the different types of PTFE tapes

PTFE tape for LPG .. http://www.cobasuk.com/voodoo-blue-sealing-tape

 

[DuxDeluxe]

yes indeed,

I answered @Minxy Girl 's question in post #6 with link to the different types of PTFE tapes

Thanks Jim.... saw that after my post. missed it first time.... specsavers required.

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[scotjimland]

Thanks Jim.... saw that after my post. missed it first time.... specsavers required.

I guess she is lost for words

 

[Minxy]

you don't use tape on compression fittings, and none being used on them in this photo..

the blue tape is not on 'joints' it is on the threaded part of the fittings which are tapered and use PTFE tape as a lubricant and seal..

as you say, it may not be tape but a thread compound.. does the same job

They are the same as my old ones and the blue tape is ptfe tape specifically for gas. I had a similar leak with a new gaslow bottle a few years ago, which they fixed. They are prakto brand made I think in Belgium. Mine were very good.

I've heard of the Prakto bottles but never seen any photos of them before, or the blue 'tape' stuff - and it appears Lenny wasn't aware either so I'm in good company.

This is where a forum is great, we get to learn from other people's experiences.

I guess she is lost for words

Are the above words acceptable as not being 'lost'?

 

[Lenny HB]

Just reading all this makes me wonder how long my Alugas bottles will last. They appear to be well made and they are manufactured in Germany. The big but is that I remember when Calor first produced alloy bottles they had big problems as the gas attacked the alloy they had to recall them. New alloy bottles had a coating on the inside.
Obviously Alugas have been producing exchange bottles for a long time before they started making the refillable I assume they are coated as I have never heard of any problems with them. The question is how long is the coating going to last. My bottles are 4 years old transferred from the last van.

 

[Two on Tour]

I've heard of the Prakto bottles but never seen any photos of them before, or the blue 'tape' stuff - and it appears Lenny wasn't aware either so I'm in good company.

Arr, but you are aware of them as they are also the manufacturer of the Gas-it bottles and tanks. : Edit, It's a pity that I read stuff but then on occasions don't mentally process it before replying.

 

[Minxy]

Arr, but you are aware of them as they are also the manufacturer of the Gas-it bottles and tanks.

... and I would have known that how?

Edit, It's a pity that I read stuff but then on occasions don't mentally process it before replying.

I've looked at Gas-it bottles when wanting a no. 2 cylinder but got a second hand Gaslow one instead, so haven't actually had a Gas-it (although I have seen them in the flesh) and doubt if many Gas-it owners would know they were made by the same company that produce the Prakto ones.

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[GWAYGWAY]

I think they all come oout of a company in Poland and sold throughout Europe as a bit of badge engineering. differing paint colours etc.

 

[scotjimland]

AFAIAA they are made in Wales.

 

[Two on Tour]

I boo booed ......, the Gas-it bottles and tanks are made by Stako for Gas-it in Poland. Stako are owned by the US company Worthington Industries .

 

[olley]

you don't use tape on compression fittings, and none being used on them in this photo..

the blue tape is not on 'joints' it is on the threaded part of the fittings which are tapered and use PTFE tape as a lubricant and seal..

as you say, it may not be tape but a thread compound.. does the same job

Can't speak lpg but you certainly do use tape or paste on compression fittings jim.
When you've just piped up a load of rads, filled the system with water and one drips, then your going to wish you had.

 

[scotjimland]

Can't speak lpg but you certainly do use tape or paste on compression fittings jim.
When you've just piped up a load of rads, filled the system with water and one drips, then your going to wish you had.

not going to argue Ian .. I know some use it.. but I can only say as I was trained.

Compression fittings do not use or need tape, it is sealed at the olive, not at the threads. Leaks are frequently caused by over tightening, generally a nut will need one whole turn after hand tightening.

When employed by Shell UK Oil and Amoco offshore we used Swagelok high pressure stainless steel compression fittings, with working pressures in excess of 3,000 psi , They have TWO olives that 'swage' into each other as you tighten the nut, sealing onto the pipe.. The body and the nut have an aligning marks for correct tightening.. each size of fitting has a specific number of turns to give a proper seal.. After tightening there is a gauge to check the gap between the nut and body. Anyone found using PTFE tape on a compression fitting would have been fired !

In fact PTFE tape was eventually banned offshore as it had once been used incorrectly, and caused a spill into the sea.. a small piece went into the air line, and was the case of a pneumatic level transmitter to fail to close off the filling valve which caused the vessel to overflow into the N Sea .. after that only liquid sealer was allowed on threaded taper fittings, but NEVER on compression fittings.

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[ironduck]

Thanks everyone for your learned responses which I’ll pass on. The leak was gas rather than liquid and it was coming from the red plastic cap plug nearest the camera.

During a recent refill, he described repressing the LPG pump button after the flow stopped and a further few litres were dispensed.

 

[gus-lopez]

he leak was gas rather than liquid and it was coming from the red plastic cap plug nearest the camera.

Which is covering the pressure relief valve.

 

[olley]

not going to argue Ian .. I know some use it.. but I can only say as I was trained.

Compression fittings do not use or need tape, it is sealed at the olive, not at the threads. Leaks are frequently caused by over tightening, generally a nut will need one whole turn after hand tightening.

When employed by Shell UK Oil and Amoco offshore we used Swagelok high pressure stainless steel compression fittings, with working pressures in excess of 3,000 psi , They have TWO olives that 'swage' into each other as you tighten the nut, sealing onto the pipe.. The body and the nut have an aligning marks for correct tightening.. each size of fitting has a specific number of turns to give a proper seal.. After tightening there is a gauge to check the gap between the nut and body. Anyone found using PTFE tape on a compression fitting would have been fired !

In fact PTFE tape was eventually banned offshore as it had once been used incorrectly, and caused a spill into the sea.. a small piece went into the air line, and was the case of a pneumatic level transmitter to fail to close off the filling valve which caused the vessel to overflow into the N Sea .. after that only liquid sealer was allowed on threaded taper fittings, but NEVER on compression fittings.

Always used tape or paste jim, and when I started working for Burgins doing commercial work a few years back with son-in-Law (He was a foreman, nothing wrong with a bit of nepotism ) he made a point of telling me. And to illustrate the point we did a college at Stevenage, and one of the rads leaked at the connection, he got the pipe off and I held my finger over the end while he wound thread tape on the olive, before ramming it back. He was not a happy bunny, no thread tape and we got wet.

Olives are as you say intended to seal and 99 times out of a hundred they may do, but the hassle you get when they don't? I generally use paste rather than tape, and only ever on the olive. And I use Loctite thread tape not the usual strip, at the end of the day it's what works for you.
But if you need to seal a really crappy iron fitting, nothing beats the old hemp and paste.

As for oil rigs and high pressure never had anything to do with either, so I bow to your superior knowledge.

 

[Basildog]

Can't speak lpg but you certainly do use tape or paste on compression fittings jim.
When you've just piped up a load of rads, filled the system with water and one drips, then your going to wish you had.

Go on a plumbing forum and say that !!!!!!!
To paste or not is more controversial than grey water

 

[Basildog]

Thanks everyone for your learned responses which I’ll pass on. The leak was gas rather than liquid and it was coming from the red plastic cap plug nearest the camera.

During a recent refill, he described repressing the LPG pump button after the flow stopped and a further few litres were dispensed.

Warm weather and possibly a little too much pressure in the system so the prv did exactly what it is supposed to do , there isn't a problem.
Prv is set at something like 27 Bar and it is recommended by the manufacturers that they are replaced every 10 years !

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