No electrical power!! -- Where should I start looking??

[moulin 87]

Hi

Collected our Dethleffs motorhome from winter storage yesterday at 6pm, there was no problem with starting the MH after it had been left 4 months.

The agreement with our storage provider is that every 2 weeks the MH is connected to the mains for 24 hours but when I arrived home I found there was no 12v power and when I connected the mains the 240V light didn't illuminate.

I've checked the LCD to see if it had tripped but it was OK and similarly what fuses I could find.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

 

[lorger]

Do you have a cut off switch, we had one in our first van that cut all power to van. It was just inside the Hab door.

Is your hab battery got any life in it.

Any inline fuses blown

Not an expert so just basic things to check

 

[autorouter]

Do the mains sockets in the MH work? If not there may be a problem with the mains supply, hookup cable or the connections in the mains inlet.

Do you have a multimeter to test the leisure battery voltage? Maybe the charger didn't work and the battery is flat? If no multimeter, a simple test light is better than nothing.

 

[moulin 87]

Do the mains sockets in the MH work? If not there may be a problem with the mains supply, hookup cable or the connections in the mains inlet.

Do you have a multimeter to test the leisure battery voltage? Maybe the charger didn't work and the battery is flat? If no multimeter, a simple test light is better than nothing.

The main sockets in the MH work. I have a multimeter but being ignorant I can't find the terminals on the leisure battery which is hidden under the passenger seat! Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[moulin 87]

Do you have a cut off switch, we had one in our first van that cut all power to van. It was just inside the Hab door.

Is your hab battery got any life in it.

Any inline fuses blown

Not an expert so just basic things to check

I've tried the switch, nothing, checked all fuses and the breakers I can find.

Just trying to check the voltage in the leisure battery.

Thanks

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[autorouter]

To get an idea of the leisure battery voltage, you can measure something directly connected to it. For example, a 12 volt power socket. OK, it may not be the most accurate reading, but it's good enough to tell if the battery is well charged or flat. Another good place is at the fuses. Both sides of the fuse should be at battery voltage. If you pull out the fuse, one side will be at battery voltage, the other will be indeterminate.

 

[rb62]

Is the battery switch on the back of the EBL unit on? depending on which model you have.

 

[two]

Get your charger checked.
I'm guessing that the charger has failed and taken the battery with it.
Switch the charger off, disconnect it from the battery, and recharge the battery with a different charger. If it (12V items) works after that, it's probably the charger.
You may need a new charger and battery if the battery cannot be recovered.

 

[moulin 87]

To get an idea of the leisure battery voltage, you can measure something directly connected to it. For example, a 12 volt power socket. OK, it may not be the most accurate reading, but it's good enough to tell if the battery is well charged or flat. Another good place is at the fuses. Both sides of the fuse should be at battery voltage. If you pull out the fuse, one side will be at battery voltage, the other will be indeterminate.

Is the battery switch on the back of the EBL unit on? depending on which model you have.

View attachment 293747

Hi autorouter

At the moment I can't switch the control panel on by pressing the 12v switch so there is nothing going to the 12 v sockets. The 240 v sockets are working. Which fuse do you suggest, I've tried the 40 amp fuse beneath the seat with the leisure battery and I get a very varied reading!!

Richard

The Electroblock is a EBL 102 and the little switch is 'ein' which I assume is on.

Thanks


John

 

[moulin 87]

To get an idea of the leisure battery voltage, you can measure something directly connected to it. For example, a 12 volt power socket. OK, it may not be the most accurate reading, but it's good enough to tell if the battery is well charged or flat. Another good place is at the fuses. Both sides of the fuse should be at battery voltage. If you pull out the fuse, one side will be at battery voltage, the other will be indeterminate.

I've just tried again and using the 10 amp fuse next to the leisure battery there is a reading of around 13.9, which for my uneducated mind looks about right!!

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[rb62]

Have you found a fuse between the battery and EBL ? usually one somewhere! also have you pressed and held the 12v switch down for at least 5 secs?

 

[moulin 87]

Have you found a fuse between the battery and EBL ? usually one somewhere! also have you pressed and held the 12v switch down for at least 5 secs?

I've found 40, 10 and a 2 amp fuse leading from the leisure battery, all are OK. I've checked all the fuses in the EBL, all are ok. I've not checked behind the EBL. I've just held down thw 12v switch for 30 seconds, still dead.

 

[rb62]

So if the battery is at 13.9v and the 40amp fuse is OK power is getting to the EBL but not getting out,even to the control panel
Have you tried pulling the connectors off the back of the EBL and putting them back,see if anything clicks,I'd unplug the EHU while 'fiddling'
if you havn't done so already

 

[autorouter]

The wire with the 2 amp fuse is the one used by the EBL to measure the Leisure battery voltage. That's the best one to check its voltage.

13.9v is too high for it to be just the battery on its own, so the charger must be doing something. It looks consistent with trickle charge mode into a fully charged battery, so I guess that side of it is working fine.

I've heard from other funsters that the battery connection switch (the one labelled Batterie Trennschalter) can be unreliable. It's worth trying it on and off a few times. It doesn't actually switch the battery connection, it activates a couple of heavy-duty relays. The relays are 'bistable', that is, they stay in the on or off position, and the switch provides a pulse to flip them on or off. So listen for a 'clunk' as you try the switch.

the little switch is 'ein' which I assume is on.

Correct. Ein = on, Aus = off (In and Out in German)

 

[moulin 87]

So if the battery is at 13.9v and the 40amp fuse is OK power is getting to the EBL but not getting out,even to the control panel
Have you tried pulling the connectors off the back of the EBL and putting them back,see if anything clicks,I'd unplug the EHU while 'fiddling'
if you havn't done so already

The wire with the 2 amp fuse is the one used by the EBL to measure the Leisure battery voltage. That's the best one to check its voltage.

13.9v is too high for it to be just the battery on its own, so the charger must be doing something. It looks consistent with trickle charge mode into a fully charged battery, so I guess that side of it is working fine.

I've heard from other funsters that the battery connection switch (the one labelled Batterie Trennschalter) can be unreliable. It's worth trying it on and off a few times. It doesn't actually switch the battery connection, it activates a couple of heavy-duty relays. The relays are 'bistable', that is, they stay in the on or off position, and the switch provides a pulse to flip them on or off. So listen for a 'clunk' as you try the switch.

Correct. Ein = on, Aus = off (In and Out in German)

Ok I'll check these in the morning.

Thanks again

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[rb62]

From what I've been reading there are two relays in the EBL,one is operated by the switch on the EBL and the other is operated by the switch on the panel.The most common cause of loss of 12v seems to be the switch on the EBL which gets a bit of corrosion on it and looses its connection,remedy seems to be switch it on and off a few times! some people have given it a spray of contact cleaner.
Can you get to the back of the control panel to see if you have 12v to the back of the switch?
If you put 'loss of 12v' into search there are a few threads on this!

 

[moulin 87]

The wire with the 2 amp fuse is the one used by the EBL to measure the Leisure battery voltage. That's the best one to check its voltage.

13.9v is too high for it to be just the battery on its own, so the charger must be doing something. It looks consistent with trickle charge mode into a fully charged battery, so I guess that side of it is working fine.

I've checked the readings again this morning using the 2 amp fuse. With the 240v disconnected 12.7V, with the 240V connected 13.1V. So perhaps not so positive... The solar panel is connected and we're in full sun even this early in the morning!!

I've also tried the battery switch this morning as per rb62 as well, but I only hear the click of the switch, definitely no clunk.

From what I've been reading there are two relays in the EBL,one is operated by the switch on the EBL and the other is operated by the switch on the panel.The most common cause of loss of 12v seems to be the switch on the EBL which gets a bit of corrosion on it and looses its connection,remedy seems to be switch it on and off a few times! some people have given it a spray of contact cleaner.
Can you get to the back of the control panel to see if you have 12v to the back of the switch?
If you put 'loss of 12v' into search there are a few threads on this!

As above re the switch.

 

[autorouter]

The electric step is on a different relay from the rest of the 12V devices. Maybe that is working at least.

The manual for the EBL102 can be downloaded from the Schaudt website. Unfortunately the site is in German only, so can be a bit of a problem for some. On top of that, the EBL102 manual is currently only available in German.

However it is very similar to the EBL101 which is available in English. So if you download both, you can see the English version while comparing the German version. The only difference I can see is the battery type switch, which is Lead-Acid/Lead Gel in the EBL101, but is AGM/Lead Gel on the EBL102.

Because of the difficulty of finding these manuals, I've uploaded them to the Resources section.

 

[moulin 87]

The electric step is on a different relay from the rest of the 12V devices. Maybe that is working at least.

The manual for the EBL102 can be downloaded from the Schaudt website. Unfortunately the site is in German only, so can be a bit of a problem for some. On top of that, the EBL102 manual is currently only available in German.

However it is very similar to the EBL101 which is available in English. So if you download both, you can see the English version while comparing the German version. The only difference I can see is the battery type switch, which is Lead-Acid/Lead Gel in the EBL101, but is AGM/Lead Gel on the EBL102.

Because of the difficulty of finding these manuals, I've uploaded them to the Resources section.

The step isn't working, it was the first thing that alerted me to a fault.

I have the 102 Manual in German so the English 101 manual now helps me make some sense of it, many thanks.

So reading the Technical faults table, it is either a Electrobloc fault or defective fuse. I've checked the fuses again, they look good. When I remove the 40V fuse there is a small buzzer noise.

Thanks again​

John

 

[JeanLuc]

Before testing the battery voltage, I would disconnect the mains hookup and the solar panel so that you do not get false readings. Disconnect the solar panel from the ‘upstream’ side of the regulator, do not disconnect the regulator from the EBL or battery (depending on which it is connected to). Then check your battery voltage again and let us know what you find.

Just seen your last post. Do not pull the 40 amp fuse without first disconnecting the solar panel. It could be the regulator that is buzzing in protest.

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[autorouter]

Can you check that the batteries are connected to the EBL? At the back of it there's a 3-way screw terminal block with thick wires going into it. Red = starter battery pos, black = leisure battery pos, brown = leisure battery neg. Do you get a solid reading from the leisure battery wires? While you are there you might as well test the starter battery wire too, but it's not relevant to this problem.

 

[moulin 87]

Can you check that the batteries are connected to the EBL? At the back of it there's a 3-way screw terminal block with thick wires going into it. Red = starter battery pos, black = leisure battery pos, brown = leisure battery neg. Do you get a solid reading from the leisure battery wires? While you are there you might as well test the starter battery wire too, but it's not relevant to this problem.

Red 12.7v, black 13.5v readings taken with 240V disconnected.

 

[JeanLuc]

Red 12.7v, black 13.5v readings taken with 240V disconnected.

But have you disconnected the +ve feed from the solar panel too? See my post above. If not, you will be reading the output from the solar regulator (unless it is dark).

 

[rich g]

Cover the solar panel with some cardboard and then see if the 12v system works.

If the solar regulator has packed up the 12v won't work so it doesn't burn the battery.

If thats the case you just need to replace the reg.

 

[autorouter]

On the front of the EBL there are several fuses. One is labelled 'Zusatz Ladegerat' (Auxiliary Charger). I presume you don't use an auxiliary charger, so there will be no fuse inserted. One terminal of the fuse goes to the battery via the internal shunt. Can you check the voltage on this. I don't know if it's the upper or lower terminal, but the other one will have an indefinite voltage on it.

Are the plugs into the EBL under any kind of strain? Maybe pull them out and re-insert them, especially the thin ones that go to the control panel.

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[moulin 87]

On the front of the EBL there are several fuses. One is labelled 'Zusatz Ladegerat' (Auxiliary Charger). I presume you don't use an auxiliary charger, so there will be no fuse inserted. One terminal of the fuse goes to the battery via the internal shunt. Can you check the voltage on this. I don't know if it's the upper or lower terminal, but the other one will have an indefinite voltage on it.

Are the plugs into the EBL under any kind of strain? Maybe pull them out and re-insert them, especially the thin ones that go to the control panel.

14V.. There was a 20amp fuse in it. Checked the plugs still no joy!! I'll see if I can find a Dethleffs dealer to have a look at it, the nearest is 80kms, the other is 120km away but in a different direction.. It should still be under warranty so hopefully it will sorted before we plan to start our travels.

Thanks again

 

[moulin 87]

The wire with the 2 amp fuse is the one used by the EBL to measure the Leisure battery voltage. That's the best one to check its voltage.

13.9v is too high for it to be just the battery on its own, so the charger must be doing something. It looks consistent with trickle charge mode into a fully charged battery, so I guess that side of it is working fine.

I've heard from other funsters that the battery connection switch (the one labelled Batterie Trennschalter) can be unreliable. It's worth trying it on and off a few times. It doesn't actually switch the battery connection, it activates a couple of heavy-duty relays. The relays are 'bistable', that is, they stay in the on or off position, and the switch provides a pulse to flip them on or off. So listen for a 'clunk' as you try the switch.

Correct. Ein = on, Aus = off (In and Out in German)

From what I've been reading there are two relays in the EBL,one is operated by the switch on the EBL and the other is operated by the switch on the panel.The most common cause of loss of 12v seems to be the switch on the EBL which gets a bit of corrosion on it and looses its connection,remedy seems to be switch it on and off a few times! some people have given it a spray of contact cleaner.
Can you get to the back of the control panel to see if you have 12v to the back of the switch?
If you put 'loss of 12v' into search there are a few threads on this!

Rang the newest Dethleff dealer in France yesterday at 10am and arranged for a RDV for 2pm..

Problem traced back to the switch on the EBL as noted above. All working again.

Thanks again for your help.

John