New Swift Motorhome?

[Borderer]

Hi all,
We are new to motorhomes and are planning to buy this year having already hired and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
We are trying to find out as much as we can before we buy in the summer (no funds before then) and have already visited many dealers in the north west and midlands. We even managed a day at the NEC. We have seen a number of models we like, including Swift/Bessacar on their stand at the NEC. The problem is that Swift only use Fiat engines. We have been following people's concerns about reversing problems. Peugeot appear to be getting a better press than Fiat over these problems. Do I abandon any ideas of buying Swift because of this. I know that Swift monitor this link...any thoughts?

 

[Ash]

we have a Bolero fb we have never had a problem with reversing judering , we have 2 friends with swift motorhomes and they have had no problems with the judering either

Ash..

 

[billy]

Hi Borderer

We had the same problems when looking for ours, we read all the reports on Fiat engines.
In the end we decided not to buy Fiat did not want the hassle some people are having and the treatment they are receiving from Fiat.
In the end we bought a used Autotrail miami which is a Renault 3ltr engine.
We have had it for 3 weeks and are really happy with it it is in exellent condition inside and out.
Good luck in your search :thumb::thumb:

 

[hilldweller]

We are trying to find out as much as we can before we buy in the summer (no funds before then

How about doing a deal with a dealer - buy a reasonable used one with a guaranteed buy back when the new gearbox etc is fitted to new production.

 

[SwiftGroup]

Hi Borderer,

You are right we only build our Swift and Bessacarr motorhomes on Fiat cabs. At Autocruise we do build on Peugeot. I do believe the X250 cab is best all round vehicle for conversion to a Motorhome. Fiat developed the X250 specifically with the Motorhome market in mind and worked with all the leading manufacturers.

I agree they have been slow to resolve some of their issues, but you can't ignore it is a good base vehicle,

Andy

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[haganap]

I personally would have no issue buying on a fiat chassis. I think it's a great chassis and very stylish.

I personally would be more concerned about getting my layout right than I would a chasis. Choosing a fiat chasis will open up far more options than if you restrict yourselves.
Yes there has been a small problem with a specific unit but all in all it seems well on its way to being sorted.

good luck with whatever you choose and TBH dond believe everything you read.

 

[Terry]

Hi Borderer

We had the same problems when looking for ours, we read all the reports on Fiat engines.
In the end we decided not to buy Fiat did not want the hassle some people are having and the treatment they are receiving from Fiat.
In the end we bought a used Autotrail miami which is a Renault 3ltr engine.
We have had it for 3 weeks and are really happy with it it is in exellent condition inside and out.
Good luck in your search :thumb::thumb:

Hi Billy would you be surprised to learn that Renault use Fiat engines :thumb: as also used in Iveco ---Soffin type.:thumb:
terry

 

[hilldweller]

Yes there has been a small problem with a specific unit but all in all it seems well on its way to being sorted.

A small problem ?

At least 4 years production of a chassis with a transmission problem that results in burned out clutches or shattered gearboxes.

A post on facts says that the current fix immediately destroyed one "fixed" vehicle.

It has generated 176 pages of posts on facts from poor sods trying to get Fiat to admit there is a problem but all they have come up with seems to be a placebo to save the massive cost of a proper fix.

I wouldn't touch such a Fiat second hand, because they will not extend the warranty and say the clutch is a service item even when new, I can't be alone, so what it the eventual residual value of these vehicles.

It's a small problem on the scale of our banks needed a few quid to tide them by.

 

[haganap]

A small problem ?

At least 4 years production of a chassis with a transmission problem that results in burned out clutches or shattered gearboxes.

A post on facts says that the current fix immediately destroyed one "fixed" vehicle.

It has generated 176 pages of posts on facts from poor sods trying to get Fiat to admit there is a problem but all they have come up with seems to be a placebo to save the massive cost of a proper fix.

I wouldn't touch such a Fiat second hand, because they will not extend the warranty and say the clutch is a service item even when new, I can't be alone, so what it the eventual residual value of these vehicles.

It's a small problem on the scale of our banks needed a few quid to tide them by.

Sorry I don't wanna go in to a deep discussion on it. But I would ask you gloss over what you read and find the response by fiat engineers as well as those from peugout. I will allow you to do this yourself as not to get shot on here by any one with this problem.
Having located the fiat response, find yourself someone with a rear judder have a go and prove it for yourself. Like I said I dont want to go deep on this. because there is another side which on motorhome forums you are not allowed to follow for risk of being ridiculed.
see you at southport

 

[buccaneer]

Hi Borderer,

You are right we only build our Swift and Bessacarr motorhomes on Fiat cabs. At Autocruise we do build on Peugeot. I do believe the X250 cab is best all round vehicle for conversion to a Motorhome. Fiat developed the X250 specifically with the Motorhome market in mind and worked with all the leading manufacturers.

I agree they have been slow to resolve some of their issues, but you can't ignore it is a good base vehicle,

Andy

I totally agree with above, great cab very good MPG mines a Peugeot but first the water ingress problems that dealers and manufactuers had never heard of and now reversing problems and at the moment no solution.A lot of peoples warrantys will now be running out and this gearbox looks an expensive fix,if it can be fixed.
Again the dealers and convertors and both Fiat and Peugeot for a long time said this problem did not exist.
I would never trust this group of people in the again and never buy a Fiat or Peugeot.

All you get is a big headache.

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[hilldweller]

Sorry I don't wanna go in to a deep discussion on it.

Neither do I but I did think you made it look far less of a problem than some people have found have so I redressed the balance a little.

We bought the previous chassis, I've been under it with the MOT guy and even he remarked on how solid it is. We are delighted with it. What a terrible shame that a small design error grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory.

I do see a lot of "scoring points" on these forums that's not my style, just a blunt northerner who says what he thinks is right even if he isn't on occasion.

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

We are renewing our Hire Fleet now........... with what




























SWIFT FIAT X250 cabs

























says somat!:thumb:

Peter

 

[billy]

Hi Billy would you be surprised to learn that Renault use Fiat engines :thumb: as also used in Iveco ---Soffin type.:thumb:
terry

hi Terry

Renault already has partnerships with Suzuki (7269.T) and General Motors (GM.N) which both buy Renault diesel engines. And the company is in discussions with several automakers to find another partner to share development costs and gain economies of scale, Jacques Prost, head engine development for Renault, said on Tuesday. Nothing has yet been signed.

if RENAULT develop their own diesel engines and sell them to other manufacturers
then why would they use Fiat engines????

 

[haganap]

hi Terry

Renault already has partnerships with Suzuki (7269.T) and General Motors (GM.N) which both buy Renault diesel engines. And the company is in discussions with several automakers to find another partner to share development costs and gain economies of scale, Jacques Prost, head engine development for Renault, said on Tuesday. Nothing has yet been signed.

if RENAULT develop their own diesel engines and sell them to other manufacturers
then why would they use Fiat engines????

Well billy from my understanding they are not using Fiat engines neither are fiat using renault engines.
They are using the euro2 engine, an engine designed by all and used basically in the renault, fiat peugot citroen and and I believe ford (slightly different) what you refer to is future development. this is what my kids will be driving.

 

[Exustrek]

Hi Borderer

The Fiat X250 is a monumental leap forward from the old chassis in every aspect except for the reversing issue, at the end of the day only you can decide if you think it worthwhile risking around 40K of your hard earned for a leisure vehicle surrounded by so much bad press within the motorhome community.

The facts are these : Fiat / Peugot are fitting a modified gearbox & clutch assembly to all future X250 production models, they wouldn’t be doing this if they believed that there was no problem with the current set up. None of these modified models will be in the showroom in time for this year’s camping season & probably not even this side of Christmas.

If you check out Haganap’s blogg you’ll read that the problems with the new chassis were enough to put him off buying an X250 & thought it a better idea to stick to the old chassis (B.T.W. Paul, I’ve enjoyed following your blogg, thanks for sharing the adventures of yourself & your lovely family, great stuff)

We reported the problem with our own van late 2007 / early 2008 & over a year later we now have a vehicle that has a defective transmission & is out of warranty with no promise of any kind of fix in writing (ours is the 3.0l 160multijet), we are now at the mercy of Fiat providing some sort of solution by way of a goodwill gesture. Opinions & recommendations count for nothing if you end up in this situation.

IMO you’d be ill-advised to take recommendations from dealers or manufacturers who have a vested interest in getting you to part with your money, surely that’s common sense. The truth is that nobody can guarantee that your new Fiat when delivered will not judder.
The choice of course is yours & I hope you have a great time in whichever vehicle you decide on………………. Happy hunting.

Apologies to everyone for the intrusion, I haven’t been on here for a very long time, I just popped in to grab the schaudt file I posted here (can’t find my copy, only to find the download section out of action) & couldn’t resist reading a few messages, Anyway, I promised my better half I’d stop bitching about this judder problem so I’ll shut up & bow out gracefully.

Again, apologies for the intrusion……………… Bryan

B.T.W. this is ours, she’s brilliant going forwards, we love her, despite the judder thing.

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[haganap]

Hi Borderer
If you check out Haganap’s blogg you’ll read that the problems with the new chassis were enough to put him off buying an X250 & thought it a better idea to stick to the old chassis (B.T.W. Paul, I’ve enjoyed following your blogg, thanks for sharing the adventures of yourself & your lovely family, great stuff)
.

Thanksfor your kind words Bryan, but in order not to sound like I have contradicted myself. what my blogg says is,

I personally thought long and hard about getting a new van. But would rather have something at the end of it's development than that which is brand new and is bound to raise problems, they always do.

Add that of course to the extra 10k + I would of had to pay to be a fiat test pilot? yes I woudl rather wait. In 3-5 years when the vans have got spaceship white van milage and are proven then we will see.

ps bryan yours looks a lovely van, and I wouldnt bother going backwards in it.!!

 

[Terry]

hi Terry

if RENAULT develop their own diesel engines and sell them to other manufacturers
then why would they use Fiat engines????

Hi Billy,you answered your own question, they are developing one :thumb:
I may be wrong,but the renault 3 ltr is based on the old 2.5 / 2.8 ltr which were Fiat.(SOFFIN)These engines are widely used in both 2.5 and 2.8 guise in both the Master and Iveco and are considered to be very good work horse engines capable of high milage.
The politics of who own Iveco (a company in its own right with about 50 factory's W/Wide I am not sure about these days but they were Fiat owned (may be Ford now ) as they advertise and sell in this country as Ford Iveco and in Europe Fiat Iveco so you can rest assured both will have a finger in the pie.
Last time I heard Renalt were developing a van in conjunction with LDV but then I think they bailed out and came up with the Maxus which again not sure was developed by Dawoo again a GM finger /pie situation
terry

 

[WillH]

Sorry, no headache here. I agree it's probably the best base vehicle for conversion. I have over 8k miles on a year old model and the 'reversing' problem is not as big as everyone makes out. Yes, the vehicle can shudder when reversed, yes this can be avoided by changing the driving style.

I would be surprised if anyone ever built a perefect motorhome. The Swift group build a layout that suits me, at a recent show we looked at a couple of dozen others and liked none of them.

I'll stick with mine even though some would deem it a disaster, I class it it as a niggle in an otherwise superb motorhome. I would not hesitate to recommend my van to anyone.

Rgds
Bill

 

[williat1]

consider ford

Hi,
Buying a new motorhome is a big decision with a great deal of expense. I've had three Fiats allbeit the old 2.8 JTD models and all have performed excellently. When making a choice of manufacturer for my new motorhome I discounted the new Fiat after talking to quite a few owners of the new models with quite a few complaining of the dreaded judder and water ingress to engine bay.

My new motohome.....a Dethleffs based on the twin wheeled Ford Transit chassis which provides in my opinion a much better cab layout, excellent specification and rmuch better ride than my previous Alko chassied Fiats. I tried the new Fiat model and was not over impressed.

Another factor worth considering is the rear wheel drive. There's nothing worse than trying to get off a muddy site with front wheel drive. I am very taken with the twin wheel rear drive which is superb. I would not consider another front wheel drive vehicle but prospective new purchasers should try before you buy and consider the Ford which is becoming a very popular alternative.


Williat1

 

[Munchie]

Sorry, no headache here. I agree it's probably the best base vehicle for conversion. I have over 8k miles on a year old model and the 'reversing' problem is not as big as everyone makes out. Yes, the vehicle can shudder when reversed, yes this can be avoided by changing the driving style.

I would be surprised if anyone ever built a perefect motorhome. The Swift group build a layout that suits me, at a recent show we looked at a couple of dozen others and liked none of them.

I'll stick with mine even though some would deem it a disaster, I class it it as a niggle in an otherwise superb motorhome. I would not hesitate to recommend my van to anyone.

Rgds
Bill

I agree 100%. I recently bought an Itineo A class on the 2.3 x250 and it is superb. One of the best machines to drive I have ever experienced (I was an electrician driver in the army and have driven for Tarmac and also buses so no lack of experience) I knew of the judder problem and mine does judder slightly on uphill reverse. I asked myself How often do I reverse uphill and for how far? I don't regret at all buying an x250.

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[Reg Ball]

Reg Ball

Hi,
Buying a new motorhome is a big decision with a great deal of expense. I've had three Fiats allbeit the old 2.8 JTD models and all have performed excellently. When making a choice of manufacturer for my new motorhome I discounted the new Fiat after talking to quite a few owners of the new models with quite a few complaining of the dreaded judder and water ingress to engine bay.

My new motohome.....a Dethleffs based on the twin wheeled Ford Transit chassis which provides in my opinion a much better cab layout, excellent specification and rmuch better ride than my previous Alko chassied Fiats. I tried the new Fiat model and was not over impressed.

Another factor worth considering is the rear wheel drive. There's nothing worse than trying to get off a muddy site with front wheel drive. I am very taken with the twin wheel rear drive which is superb. I would not consider another front wheel drive vehicle but prospective new purchasers should try before you buy and consider the Ford which is becoming a very popular alternative.


Williat1

Amongst others, I tried the Ford before buying. I suggest anyone considering this vehicle should sit in the driving seat. I sat in the driving seat and my level vision was above the windscreen. I had to duck my head to drive. I am a normal 5ft 11''. I purchased the Fiat Swift Mondial after trying others and have had 2 Fiat models in the past. I also don't consider the reverse judder as bad as some people say. However, as I only purchased a few months ago, I contacted Fiat (italy) and they couldn't have been more helpful. They say the problem is being addressed and eveyone who contacts them will be called in for attention (I have been told I will be contacted in May).
Regards
Reg

 

[williat1]

Hi

Did you try lowering the drivers seat ...it is adjustable for height. Not a common facility on all motorhomes. I'm 5ft 9and a bit......a shortie I know.. but I get no problem whatsoever with vision restriction.



Regards
Williat1

 

[RichardnGill]

We are you about to P/X a 2 year old MK7 Transit. The front wheel drive ones have a problem in First gear especcialy on a hills. They are easily stalled and can get a smelly clutch in traffic. They also have poor brakes.

I do also agree with the driving postion in the Transit with swivel seats fited. Ours had remis blinds which made the driving position even worse. If you are over 5Ft 8" I would have a long sit in the cab. The Fiat X250 with swivels fited has more head room.

We are getting a 3.0 Fiat and I am not overly worried about it as I think all vehicles have problems.

The Rear wheel drive Transit is a grate vehicle as long as you dont drive fast as it is very low geared which means high revs and a lot of fuel used.

Our New van is a Swift group Bessacarr, which we bought as the layout was for us. If you limit vehicle choice you dont get as big a range of layouts.

Richard...

 

[purdo4]

Hi, we have a Bessacarr E725 not a new one,but its in excellent condition.As for it being
on a fiat chassis,that has given us no problems.We have a 2.8 engine and it has given us excellent service (touch wood) This is our 3rd Motorhome and each one has been on a fiat chassis.We never had any worries with the other two either.

I dont think you can go wrong in buying a Bessacarr,excellent quality,especially the upholstery.Looks as good today as when it was new.

Hope you give a lot of thought to The Bessacar models.Just wish we could afford a brand new one.Maybe one day

Happy Motorhoming

Mo :thumb:

 

[Reg Ball]

Hi

Did you try lowering the drivers seat ...it is adjustable for height. Not a common facility on all motorhomes. I'm 5ft 9and a bit......a shortie I know.. but I get no problem whatsoever with vision restriction.



Regards
Williat1

yes the seat was a the lowest level - the salesman admitted that some people had found a problem with windscreen visibility. I liked the Ford Transit generally, but I really cannot drive around with my head ducked below the top of the windscreen.
Reg

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[Borderer]

Hi,
Thanks to all who have posted over the past few days, including the Swift group. We have a hard choice to make, and are enjoying looking and talking to so many people about our purchase. We still have reservations about buying Fiat so will monitor progress over the coming months.

 

[Mikemoss]

Hello Borderer. I don't know whether this is going to help you in your decision-making, but our Bessacarr is now 10 years old, has covered nearly 80,000 miles in the hands of three different owners, and is still an absolute joy to own.

The longer we've kept it the more we have found clever little design features, the workmaship is excellent, the materials all good quality, and everything still works just fine.

The Fiat part is also in great condition - not a scrap of rust (unlike my nine-year-old Mercedes car) - and very little trouble other than the usual service items.

You can take it from all this that we absolutely love it!

Obviously you are the only one who can make the final choice, but whatever it is I hope it works out really well for you.