Losing power to radio/fridge/step with engine running

[j8snl]

Hi folks. Looking for some help and advice.

This issue started in the last few days on my 2021 Fiat Ducato / Burstner Harmony Lyseo.

When driving the radio just switched off with a complete loss of stored stations / Bluetooth devices etc. It came back to life at our destination with the 12v powered on. Honestly never thought too much about it.

Today on another journey the exact same thing happened. This time I stopped in a lay-by with the engine still running and checked what else could be affected.

Radio (incl reversing cam) - dead
Fridge - dead
Electric step - dead
Truma controller - dead

Switched on the 12v with engine running and all came back to life again, the fridge was in auto mode and immediately picked up the running engine.

Switched off the 12v and everything seemed to stay working, well for at least a few miles when exact same thing happened again so I just left it as we were only an few miles until we reached the site.

We are now hooked up and the 12v system is running and everything is running but wondering if anyone had any idea where to start diagnosing this issue.

My original thoughts were a fuse but surely if a fuse is gone it’s gone it would either work or not.

Any help advice appreciated

Jason

 

[plug]

Hi folks. Looking for some help and advice.

This issue started in the last few days on my 2021 Fiat Ducato / Burstner Harmony Lyseo.

When driving the radio just switched off with a complete loss of stored stations / Bluetooth devices etc. It came back to life at our destination with the 12v powered on. Honestly never thought too much about it.

Today on another journey the exact same thing happened. This time I stopped in a lay-by with the engine still running and checked what else could be affected.

Radio (incl reversing cam) - dead
Fridge - dead
Electric step - dead
Truma controller - dead

Switched on the 12v with engine running and all came back to life again, the fridge was in auto mode and immediately picked up the running engine.

Switched off the 12v and everything seemed to stay working, well for at least a few miles when exact same thing happened again so I just left it as we were only an few miles until we reached the site.

We are now hooked up and the 12v system is running and everything is running but wondering if anyone had any idea where to start diagnosing this issue.

My original thoughts were a fuse but surely if a fuse is gone it’s gone it would either work or not.

Any help advice appreciated

Jason

What fridge are you running, as there is a problem with the Sargent system feeding power to the thetford fridge.

 

[peterc10]

What fridge are you running, as there is a problem with the Sargent system feeding power to the thetford fridge.

Its a Burstner so no worries about Sargent gear.

Hi folks. Looking for some help and advice.

This issue started in the last few days on my 2021 Fiat Ducato / Burstner Harmony Lyseo.

When driving the radio just switched off with a complete loss of stored stations / Bluetooth devices etc. It came back to life at our destination with the 12v powered on. Honestly never thought too much about it.

Today on another journey the exact same thing happened. This time I stopped in a lay-by with the engine still running and checked what else could be affected.

Radio (incl reversing cam) - dead
Fridge - dead
Electric step - dead
Truma controller - dead

Switched on the 12v with engine running and all came back to life again, the fridge was in auto mode and immediately picked up the running engine.

Switched off the 12v and everything seemed to stay working, well for at least a few miles when exact same thing happened again so I just left it as we were only an few miles until we reached the site.

We are now hooked up and the 12v system is running and everything is running but wondering if anyone had any idea where to start diagnosing this issue.

My original thoughts were a fuse but surely if a fuse is gone it’s gone it would either work or not.

Any help advice appreciated

Jason

Are you switching off the 12v when driving? If so there is no need to to do that in European motorhomes. I suspect that your radio was fitted by the dealer with 12v coming from the habitation batteries, which allows you to listen to the radio when you are parked up.

 

[autorouter]

May be related to the 12V distribution/fusebox. What make/model is it? And just to clarify - is it that the radio normally works fine but has recently started with this switching off problem while driving? Was the fridge completely dead, or was it just the 12V option not working?

 

[j8snl]

Hi. Thanks for the fast answers.

Never drive with the 12v on, just tried that in the lay-by to see if it brought things back on.

Not Sargent system, it’s Schaudt Electroblock EBL119

Fridge is a Thetford N4142E

Radio is factory fit yes and is powered on / off without ignition. Its a Pioneer AVIC-EV01-DT2-C To be honest it’s terrible and we only use it for the reversing camera

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[plug]

Hi. Thanks for the fast answers.

Never drive with the 12v on, just tried that in the lay-by to see if it brought things back on.

Not Sargent system, it’s Schaudt Electroblock EBL119

Fridge is a Thetford N4142E

Radio is factory fit yes and is powered on / off without ignition. Its a Pioneer AVIC-EV01-DT2-C To be honest it’s terrible and we only use it for the reversing camera

causes of the fault have a look at www.apuljackelectronics.co.uk , catalogue section , showing Schaudt EBL units and their possible problems .

 

[peterc10]

Never drive with the 12v on, just tried that in the lay-by to see if it brought things back on.

Why not? The only motorhomes that automatically switch off the 12v are UK ones, because it is a requirement of the NCC (National Caravan Council). Makes sense for caravans, but none at all for motorhomes. The rest of Europe is more sensible on the matter.

 

[autorouter]

One possibility is that the D+ signal, which indicated that the engine is running, might not be getting through to the EBL. Presumably the D+ is still actually being produced by the alternator - does the alternator light on the dashboard go off as normal when the engine is started? Can you test for the D+ with a meter? Are you OK using a multimeter to check voltages?

The D+ signal is used for various things, like turning the fridge on while driving, turning leisure battery charging on while driving, and maybe other things like turning off the awning light while driving, retracting the step or sounding an alarm if the step is left extended. And maybe switching over the radio from the cab electrics to the hab electrics.

 

[meanders]

Our step will retract with the engine running but you cannot put it out again without turning the engine off. Continental van.

 

[j8snl]

May be related to the 12V distribution/fusebox. What make/model is it? And just to clarify - is it that the radio normally works fine but has recently started with this switching off problem while driving? Was the fridge completely dead, or was it just the 12V option not working?

Hi Autorouter.

Just confirming for you Schaudt Electroblock 119

The radio had always worked fine whilst driving and we had this issue last week where it just powered off. We didn’t realise the other items like fridge / step were affected then just realised that today.

And the fridge has always worked on auto correctly, the issue today was it was off totally not working from any source until I put on the 12v, switched it back on again then the auto diverted it to DC battery. I also discovered I don’t have batteries in my backup which would have prevented that and switched it. So I’ll add those batteries but obviously trying to see why all these devices are switching off mid drive

On your second response (thanks again) alternator light coming on a off per normal

I have a multimeter with me yes but unfortunately I’m a total novice with that and I have no idea how to test for D+ but know it’s on Block 2 as I scanned the manual but honestly didn’t understand it.

meanders - this is what my previous van done. This van will display an LED if our whilst engine on but will go out and in with engine on.

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[j8snl]

Why not? The only motorhomes that automatically switch off the 12v are UK ones, because it is a requirement of the NCC (National Caravan Council). Makes sense for caravans, but none at all for motorhomes. The rest of Europe is more sensible on the matter.

Don’t really know . Previous MoHo was a UK one so guess I’ve just always done what I’ve always done.

But still would like to understand the issue and why something that’s worked for the 26 months we’ve owned the Burstner is now not working

 

[autorouter]

I have a multimeter with me yes but unfortunately I’m a total novice with that and I have no idea how to test for D+ but know it’s on Block 2 as I scanned the manual but honestly didn’t understand it.

OK, set the meter to 20V DC if it's manual range switching (If it's auto ranging set it to DC Volts and just let it do its thing). The 'DC' symbol is two lines, one solid, one dashed, ie not the 'AC' symbol which is a single curly wave. Plug the black wire into the 'COM' socket, and the red wire into the socket with a 'V' in the label.

You could test your setup on the battery terminals to be sure they are right - red probe on the positive, black probe on the negative. You should get a reading of between 10V and 15V. If you get the probes the wrong way round, all that happens is that a minus sign appears on the display in front of the reading. If that works, you are ready to check for the D+ signal.

As you say, the D+ comes into the EBL on Pin3 of Block 2 (the 5-way connector). There is a small '1' on the front panel showing which pin is Pin1. You might be able to push the probe into the back of the connector to make contact. Try the red probe (positive) in Pin3 of Block2. The black probe can go to any negative - all the negatives are connected together, Pin2 of Block2 is the actual D+ negative. A more convenient negative might be Pin1 of Block6 - the 3-way connector marked 'Solar', which is probably not used and easy to get the probe into.

The D+ signal should be high when the engine is running (12V to 15V). It should be low when the engine is stopped (about zero volts, less than 2V).

 

[Northernraider]

I also wonder if this is a d+ issue


I'd also not switch off the 12v hab when driving. Mine Is left on 24/7 always have done

 

[j8snl]

OK, set the meter to 20V DC if it's manual range switching (If it's auto ranging set it to DC Volts and just let it do its thing). The 'DC' symbol is two lines, one solid, one dashed, ie not the 'AC' symbol which is a single curly wave. Plug the black wire into the 'COM' socket, and the red wire into the socket with a 'V' in the label.

You could test your setup on the battery terminals to be sure they are right - red probe on the positive, black probe on the negative. You should get a reading of between 10V and 15V. If you get the probes the wrong way round, all that happens is that a minus sign appears on the display in front of the reading. If that works, you are ready to check for the D+ signal.

As you say, the D+ comes into the EBL on Pin3 of Block 2 (the 5-way connector). There is a small '1' on the front panel showing which pin is Pin1. You might be able to push the probe into the back of the connector to make contact. Try the red probe (positive) in Pin3 of Block2. The black probe can go to any negative - all the negatives are connected together, Pin2 of Block2 is the actual D+ negative. A more convenient negative might be Pin1 of Block6 - the 3-way connector marked 'Solar', which is probably not used and easy to get the probe into.

The D+ signal should be high when the engine is running (12V to 15V). It should be low when the engine is stopped (about zero volts, less than 2V).

Thanks so much for this.

Let me try that tomorrow as we will probably lose light soon.

I really appreciate your time for these responses.

 

[j8snl]

OK, set the meter to 20V DC if it's manual range switching (If it's auto ranging set it to DC Volts and just let it do its thing). The 'DC' symbol is two lines, one solid, one dashed, ie not the 'AC' symbol which is a single curly wave. Plug the black wire into the 'COM' socket, and the red wire into the socket with a 'V' in the label.

You could test your setup on the battery terminals to be sure they are right - red probe on the positive, black probe on the negative. You should get a reading of between 10V and 15V. If you get the probes the wrong way round, all that happens is that a minus sign appears on the display in front of the reading. If that works, you are ready to check for the D+ signal.

As you say, the D+ comes into the EBL on Pin3 of Block 2 (the 5-way connector). There is a small '1' on the front panel showing which pin is Pin1. You might be able to push the probe into the back of the connector to make contact. Try the red probe (positive) in Pin3 of Block2. The black probe can go to any negative - all the negatives are connected together, Pin2 of Block2 is the actual D+ negative. A more convenient negative might be Pin1 of Block6 - the 3-way connector marked 'Solar', which is probably not used and easy to get the probe into.

The D+ signal should be high when the engine is running (12V to 15V). It should be low when the engine is stopped (about zero volts, less than 2V).

Thanks again Autorouter. So it appears the battery in my multimeter is dead. I’ll get a replacement at a local shop or when I get home.

Stupid question i assume I’m unplugging the plug in block 2 before putting the red probe in it?

We are away until Tuesday. Worst case I’ll leave the 12v on running home to keep things alive then do these checks.

Thanks again for the amazing help

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[autorouter]

Stupid question i assume I’m unplugging the plug in block 2 before putting the red probe in it?

With a bit of luck you should be able to get the probe into the back of the plug without unplugging it. If the probe is thin enough to reach the metal bit inside. If not, another possibility is to just use a bit of wire or a staple to get inside the plug, then touch the probe on the bit of wire. If that doesn't work, you could unplug it, and test the plug. It's an input into the EBL, so you test the plug on the wire, not the EBL socket.

 

[j8snl]

Thank you. Reading this it wasn’t a stupid question

Let you know what happens next.

 

[j8snl]

With a bit of luck you should be able to get the probe into the back of the plug without unplugging it. If the probe is thin enough to reach the metal bit inside. If not, another possibility is to just use a bit of wire or a staple to get inside the plug, then touch the probe on the bit of wire. If that doesn't work, you could unplug it, and test the plug. It's an input into the EBL, so you test the plug on the wire, not the EBL socket.

Thanks again Autotrader.

Waited until home until looking at this.

Set up the probe as told. Engine off the reading using + Block 2 / Pin 3 and - Block 6 / Pin 1 is 0.002. When the engine is one the reading is 12.21. Readings increase 0.010 when I turn radio on.

The readings are the same with the 12v Hab System on or off.

My drive home was 90 mins and I didn’t have the loss of radio / fridge / step / etc power and I did turn off the 12v system as I guess my brain is conditioned to do that.

My assumption is on the next drive when the same thing happens and I check that reading with the engine running I will not get a high number in the 12’s ?

What would be my next steps? Any ideas welcomed.

Thank you for all the help so far.

Jason

 

[j8snl]

Hi again autorouter

Little update on the last post. Last 6 trips since the issue had all been fine then today 20 min drive into our journey the exact same issue again noticed when the pioneer head unit just went blank.

So on arrival at the site, no reversing camera / radio, fridge, step, truma controller etc - tested as above and multimeter readings were exactly the same with ignition on and off as when it was working.

Plugged the mains in, didn’t turn on the 12v - same results on multimeter - nothing came back.

The switched on the 12v, still same readings on the multimeter but now the radio rebooted itself automatically and all the other devices came on.

Not sure if that means the issues lies somewhere else and we can rule out the D+ issue as the readings are the same with ignition on and off in all scenarios.

So, just an update as I said I’d check next time it happened. For now I may resort to running with the 12v on next few trips to make sure it doesn’t happen in that scenario.

Any additional ideas welcome

Again many thanks for the help already

Jason

 

[DT]

We had the same issue on two occasion's, we always have our 12v switched on. Had a wiggle if some of the cables in the electro block but not sure that was any use. Two months now since it happened. Sorry can’t be any more help.

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[j8snl]

Looks like you have the same van as well.

Thanks for letting me I’m not alone

 

[Burge]

Looks like I am experiencing something similar , when Engine running & Fridge on Auto setting there is a clicking sound behind the Fridge & it tries to switch to gas (Gas switched off) it then goes to Batt & that with the Temperature signs all Flash . If I switch to Batt only just get Batt & Temp flashing, all this with Engine running/ no Fault light on ????

 

[StillGoing]

Looks like I am experiencing something similar , when Engine running & Fridge on Auto setting there is a clicking sound behind the Fridge & it tries to switch to gas (Gas switched off) it then goes to Batt & that with the Temperature signs all Flash . If I switch to Batt only just get Batt & Temp flashing, all this with Engine running/ no Fault light on ????

With the engine running are you getting a D+ signal of 12V at the fridge?

 

[Burge]

With the engine running are you getting a D+ signal of 12V at the fridge?

Will check & report back, thanks Chris.

 

[Burge]

With the engine running are you getting a D+ signal of 12V at the fridge?

Which cable is that on & is it accessible from the outside Lower Fridge Vent behind Fridge gubbins ??

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[GeoffnDee]

Burge ,There may be a 20amp fridge 12v element power supply fuse near the starter battery positive terminal that needs checking (it should be next to a larger fuse)
If it is a Dometic 8 series fridge the flashing temp. and battery logos (normally along with a sound every 20 seconds) could indicate a faulty 12v heater element.

 

[Burge]

As it's still got Warranty on it I've Booked it in for them to sort out , thanks All

 

[j8snl]

As it's still got Warranty on it I've Booked it in for them to sort out , thanks All

Hi Burge how did you get on with this, did they shed any light on it?

I've not had the issue again this year so far, but still don't understand what was happening.

Jason

 

[Burge]

Yes sorted, they fitted a New Control Board & Thermocouple, I did have 14.2 v at the Fridge when Engine was running so the Guy said straight away what it was. They gave me the old Board & there are Burn Marks on the Printed Circuit Board (Thermocouple was changed as they were getting Fridge out anyway).
Edit: Forgot to say no probs with my Radio or anything else ( Burstner Harmony Lyseo 690g)

 

[Burge]

Having seen a few Posts on different sites about the Fridge issue ,I was wondering if there was a problem with the Thetford Fridge Control Board on them all from Manufacture & rather than changing them they just waited till they failed then replaced under Warranty