Government Consultation on Driving Licence Changes

[Kayak Kid]

Apologies if this has been raised previously.​

Those of us who passed our driving test pre 1997 will have ‘grandfather’ rights on our driving licence allowing us to drive vehicles above 3500kg up to 7500kg - granting a C1 Status. As a result of leaving the EU, the UK Government is considering reverting back to this previous arrangement in some form. It is currently operating a consultation process, and for a number of reasons this may be something that Motorhome Fun members as individuals or ‘collectively’ might consider responding - in addition to the various ‘industry bodies’.​

It is not my intention here to make any detailed case for change, but I can see many benefits to our pastime if there was some form of return to this previous arrangement - such as limited payloads and future weights of electric powered motorhomes. I will be making a response direct supporting the principle of reverting back to the previous arrangement - despite retaining C1/D1categories due to my age. I do however appreciate that members of the forum may have a range of views. The consultation process runs until 28 October 2022.​

The government website states as its introduction:

​

“Driving licensing review - call for evidence on opportunities for changes to the driver licensing regime​

Foreword

“During the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic and the subsequent HGV driver shortage crisis, the UK government rapidly put 33 actions into place to address the circumstances that had arisen.

Eight of these actions came from expanding the HGVdriver testing capacity and improving the licensing process. The licensing improvements were achievable partly due to the fact that we had left the European Union and had the freedom to change our legislation to improve our testing and licensing regime. We now wish to explore whether there are any further opportunities that could be available to us.

The call for evidence includes seeking evidence on the economic benefits of widening the recruitment pool for medium-sized goods vehicles and minibus drivers, which may attract more people to the industry and support economic growth by further strengthening our supply chain.

It is clear that, prior to 1997, new drivers of any age had the freedom to drive a wider variety of vehicles, including cars with trailers. I, the Department for Transport and government are seeking opinions on reverting to these ‘grandfather rights’.

Without being prescriptive, there are opportunities to explore whether drivers of other vehicles need to have certain periods of experience of road use in a car, or be of a certain age. Any changes would need to ensure continued safe use of our roads and be economically proportionate. Government does not have all the answers and, to be very clear, we have not made up our minds to do any of this.

That is why my team and I need to hear the views of those who help make our driver licensing regime efficient and safe and we will be guided by their feedback.

We have suggested 4 areas for exploration in this call for evidence, but we are open to further ideas. This is your opportunity to ensure that the opportunities that may be presenting themselves to us now that we have left the European Union can be considered by government.

Karl McCartney MP

Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport

How to respond​

The call for evidence period will begin on 5 August 2022 and will run <Broken link removed>. Please ensure that your response reaches us before the closing date.

You can contact licensing.consultation@dft.gov.uk if you need alternative formats (for example, braille or audio CD).

You can respond online.
Or you can download a response form and either:

• email it to licensing.consultation@dft.gov.uk
• send it by post to

Department for Transport
Driver Licensing CfE
3rd Floor, Great Minster House
<Broken link removed>
<Broken link removed>
<Broken link removed>

When responding, please state whether you are responding as an individual or representing the views of an organisation. If responding on behalf of a larger organisation, please make it clear who the organisation represents and, where applicable, how the views of members were assembled. If you have any suggestions of others who may wish to be involved in this process, please contact us.”


The full details - which make interesting reading, can be accessed on www,gov.uk under “Driving licensing call for evidence”

I hope this post is helpful.

Jim

 

[DDJC]

I replied. Please see (redacted) attached which you can amend and send off if you wish.

 

[cyberyacht]

The thing about licensing is that, in the early days of motoring, no test required. As the roads have become busier and vehicles faster, the need for a higher degree of competence is self-evident. It is something that should be thought about long and hard. (Ex C1 holder)

 

[buntyb]

Darn it, if they change it then I lose my excuse for the kids not getting to borrow the van

 

[RustyRuss]

Fascinating survey, though some of the questions were EXCEEDINGLY poorly worded, definitely not written in plain English, which I think will have a detrimental effect on the interpretation of the results.

Cheers!

Russ

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[Kayak Kid]

The thing about licensing is that, in the early days of motoring, no test required. As the roads have become busier and vehicles faster, the need for a higher degree of competence is self-evident. It is something that should be thought about long and hard. (Ex C1 holder)

Hi,

Whilst respecting your comments and views it might be helpful also if you responded and reflected them to the consultation process.

 

[nicholsong]

Darn it, if they change it then I lose my excuse for the kids not getting to borrow the van

Stand firm lad. I am right behind you.

 

[DDJC]

Darn it, if they change it then I lose my excuse for the kids not getting to borrow the van

The answer, to my entire extended family, is NO. Love 'em, but no. How bad would they feel if they pranged it, or cracked the roof off a height restriction?

I see it as protecting them

(It's moot anyway. Siblings are all pre 1997. Elder brother is a tugger. Urgh)

 

[buntyb]

Stand firm lad. I am right behind you.

first time I’ve been called a lad

 

[Minxy]

first time I’ve been called a lad

He's just had his eyes sorted out too ... he needs to ask for a refund!

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[SpeedyDux]

OT but I thought I would share a bit of useless information:

Apparently the Queen is the only person without a driving licence who is allowed to drive anything she likes on any roads.

Soon I will have to deal with renewing my C1 entitlement, in case one day I want to buy a MH with a MTPLM exceeding 3500 Kg. That seems a bureaucratic faff to me.

 

[DDJC]

OT but I thought I would share a bit of useless information:

Apparently the Queen is the only person without a driving licence who is allowed to drive anything she likes on any roads.

Soon I will have to deal with renewing my C1 entitlement, in case one day I want to buy a MH with a MTPLM exceeding 3500 Kg. That seems a bureaucratic faff to me.

During the war, she did drive heavy stuff on the road. GSOGQ.

Why, are you approaching a certain age?

 

[nicholsong]

first time I’ve been called a lad

Sorry, i was only looking at the text and not the Avatar.

Apologies.

 

[nicholsong]

OT but I thought I would share a bit of useless information:

Apparently the Queen is the only person without a driving licence who is allowed to drive anything she likes on any roads.

Soon I will have to deal with renewing my C1 entitlement, in case one day I want to buy a MH with a MTPLM exceeding 3500 Kg. That seems a bureaucratic faff to me.

If you do not renew it now it can be got back later should you want >3.5t.

 

[Zoobec]

Done online

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[Feltwell]

Here's the link, I'd encourage everyone to fill this in even if it does not affect you, as it does affect the future of motorhoming for the next generation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consu...ng-regime/driving-licensing-call-for-evidence

 

[DDJC]

Here's the link, I'd encourage everyone to fill this in even if it does not affect you, as it does affect the future of motorhoming for the next generation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consu...ng-regime/driving-licensing-call-for-evidence

Bumping this thread up to see if anyone has heard anything.

The consultation is all finished, and apparently the Dept of Transport is inclined to go ahead. I am just concerned that in the current political hiatus, this issue (of interest to many on here) will drop off the joblist. Has anyone heard anything? If not, I will be writing to my MP to ask her to look into it. As she wants to get my vote, I should get a reply, but I will also be writing to the other party candidate that will give her a run for her money in the GE, to find out his policy on it.

Please do not let this thread go political. It is about the government following up on a mostly positive consultation with an actual policy change, that will greatly affect current and prospective motorhome owners, motorhome manufacturers, dealers and site owners.

 

[97243]

Having passed my test in 1973, I have the C1 category and, as it happens, this month, I am having to renew my licence at aged 70. This I am doing in France where we are resident. I have just needed a quick once over by a local quack to retain the C1 and the rest is a (long-winded) formality.

Anyway, my point is that I have driven hundreds of vehicles in those 50 years, but our present 6.6m MH would be the largest. This is a 3.5t vehicle and I regard myself a pretty decent driver, but the thought of getting behind the wheel of something approaching 7.5t would scare me to death.

We enjoy the wide open spaces and quiet roads of France all year round, but there is so much more traffic around now, particularly in the UK, than there was 50 years ago.

On that basis, I would have to question any authorisation up to 7.5t without completion of suitable training and test, particularly for older drivers.

 

[DDJC]

Having passed my test in 1973, I have the C1 category and, as it happens, this month, I am having to renew my licence at aged 70. This I am doing in France where we are resident. I have just needed a quick once over by a local quack to retain the C1 and the rest is a (long-winded) formality.

Anyway, my point is that I have driven hundreds of vehicles in those 50 years, but our present 6.6m MH would be the largest. This is a 3.5t vehicle and I regard myself a pretty decent driver, but the thought of getting behind the wheel of something approaching 7.5t would scare me to death.

We enjoy the wide open spaces and quiet roads of France all year round, but there is so much more traffic around now, particularly in the UK, than there was 50 years ago.

On that basis, I would have to question any authorisation up to 7.5t without completion of suitable training and test, particularly for older drivers.

Having had a licence that allowed up to any non-articulated lorry of any weight, I understand. However, I would weigh that against the folk on here, whereby for most it would means that they move from a 3500kg to a 5200kg vehicle, if they wished. Also, the existence of a driving licence code of "Not for hire or reward" could (and should) still be subject to further assessment. I had a licence that permitted me to drive any size coach or bus, but not for hire or reward.

I imagine that for most, an increase in vehicle weight on a B Licence to include up to 7.5 ton, would have no affect on their usage. For me and Mrs DDJC, it would enable us to up-plate to 3850kg, as currently, only I could drive over 3500kg. I certainly have no wish or intention to drive anything bigger than that!

I did suggest in my response to the consultation that a new add-on category or code be created whereby heavier leisure vehicles could be driven up to a new fixed weight. Both of us have been either tugging or motorhoming for more than a decade now, so a modest increase in weight, in a vehicle of the same length, would make no difference.

 

[97243]

Having had a licence that allowed up to any non-articulated lorry of any weight, I understand. However, I would weigh that against the folk on here, whereby for most it would means that they move from a 3500kg to a 5200kg vehicle, if they wished. Also, the existence of a driving licence code of "Not for hire or reward" could (and should) still be subject to further assessment. I had a licence that permitted me to drive any size coach or bus, but not for hire or reward.

I imagine that for most, an increase in vehicle weight on a B Licence to include up to 7.5 ton, would have no affect on their usage. For me and Mrs DDJC, it would enable us to up-plate to 3850kg, as currently, only I could drive over 3500kg. I certainly have no wish or intention to drive anything bigger than that!

I did suggest in my response to the consultation that a new add-on category or code be created whereby heavier leisure vehicles could be driven up to a new fixed weight. Both of us have been either tugging or motorhoming for more than a decade now, so a modest increase in weight, in a vehicle of the same length, would make no difference.

That was my rationale for keeping my C1, i.e. that we would replate our present MH if we need more payload. I certainly don't want to drive anything significantly larger, but road conditions when I passed my test were very different to what they are today and the blanket entitlement given 50 years ago seems a darned sight riskier these days.

Perhaps there should be an intermediate class to cover up to 5.5t ?

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[altomos]

Well well another Tory ploy to get us back to “SquareOne”. And Labour “Back as they used to be!” !!??

 

[DDJC]

Perhaps there should be an intermediate class to cover up to 5.5t ?

Yep! Works for me!

 

[DT]

The thing about licensing is that, in the early days of motoring, no test required. As the roads have become busier and vehicles faster, the need for a higher degree of competence is self-evident. It is something that should be thought about long and hard. (Ex C1 holder)

But remember in the last five years how many new safety features have been added to vehicles.

 

[97243]

But remember in the last five years how many new safety features have been added to vehicles.

Those are no substitutes for skill and experience of the driver, not overlooking common sense.

 

[The Wino]

I think the problem is a lot of people on here are very used to driving a 3500 motorhome going to one slightly larger slightly heavier would most likely cause no problems. However for a newly qualified driver who has only ever driven a Toyota Aygo it could be a different matter and for anyone who passed a test 30 years ago and hasn't driven since. It could well be that you would expect anyone in the second two groups to be sensible and self regulate but experience tells us that common sense like that isn't that common.
Maybe the facility to increase the weight limit should be for drivers who apply stating they have held a licence and continuously driven for the past 5 years or there could be a compulsory days education course or some other way of improving experience/ training. In the case of an increase in weight limit for EVs it could be linked to a requirement for the vehicle to have compulsory drivers electronic assistance ( collision avoidance lane departure warning etc)

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[Derbyshire wanderer]

As time moves on, restrictions are a part of making things generally safer for everyone. Changing a bathroom light fitting is no longer acceptable unless qualified. Taking a learner driver out has minimum requirements etc. Lots of new rules and changes to hopefully reduce accident.
I took my HGV artic test back in 1991 and although I was allowed to drive up to 7.5t prior to this when I passed my car test, I hadn’t done so. It was only after driving the artic’s for several months that one evening I ended up driving a 7.5t Luton and almost took off a cyclist’s head with a mirror (he had no lights in the pouring rain at night and they stick out twice as far as an artic) that I realised how much extra risk there was compared to a car.
Personally I think going to open 7.5t on standard car license is crazy but also think the 3500kg limit needs some uplift as modern vehicles are heavier just because of the safety devices fitted. Door impact bars, impact bumpers, ABS pumps, airbags and all the extra computers and wiring all add weight along with the safety benefits.
A 20% increase would be realistic and give 4200kg and cover most of the motorhomes that are basically useless at 3500kg but in reality I would think that manufacturers would just use it for larger model ranges.

 

[Kayak Kid]

Nice to see this thread coming alive again. Although many valid and reasonable suggestions have been made now, the consultation is over. Hopefully the opportunity was taken at the time to comment, as the bus has probably left the station now.

Will be interesting to see the outcome - given that it is a General Election year, and if the government feels an announcement might curry favour.

 

[Kayak Kid]

For those interested here is the outcome of the review published in October last year.
A very small number of individual responders recieved.

Consultation outcome: driving licence flexibility for alternatively-fuelled vehicles

www.gov.uk

 

[PaulW2]

So all B Licence holders to be allowed up to 5,000 kg for all zero emission vehicles where the vehicle would have weighed 3,500 kg or less without the zero emission power train?

 

[The Wino]

For those interested here is the outcome of the review published in October last year.
A very small number of individual responders recieved.

Consultation outcome: driving licence flexibility for alternatively-fuelled vehicles

www.gov.uk

Pretty clear that it's only zero emissions vehicles that it's going to apply to.

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