Going lithium

Rozzer

Rozzer

Joined
Oct 20, 2021
Posts
140
Likes collected
120
Location
Framlingham, Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK
Funster No
84,970
MH
Swift Kon-Tiki 774
Exp
Since 2017
Hi Funsters!

I have a Swift Kontiki 774 and want to switch from 100ah lead acid to 300ah Fogstar. It’s got a Sargent EC60 controller. Does anybody know if the system is LifePo compatible? Can I just drop in the new battery? I can ask Swift technical but my experiences so far with them don’t inspire any confidence!

Seems a bit of a minefield…
 
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Rozzer said:
Hi Funsters!

I have a Swift Kontiki 774 and want to switch from 100ah lead acid to 300ah Fogstar. It’s got a Sargent EC60 controller. Does anybody know if the system is LifePo compatible? Can I just drop in the new battery? I can ask Swift technical but my experiences so far with them don’t inspire any confidence!

Seems a bit of a minefield…
Click to expand...
I would ask Sargent direct. Always found them helpful.
 
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I had similar with our Swift, Fogstar said it be okay and it was, Sargent said it wouldn't.
 
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It wont fully charge it when I asked, but im guessing 90% of 300a/h is better than what you have if thats how it works?
 
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Rozzer said:
Hi Funsters!

I have a Swift Kontiki 774 and want to switch from 100ah lead acid to 300ah Fogstar. It’s got a Sargent EC60 controller. Does anybody know if the system is LifePo compatible? Can I just drop in the new battery? I can ask Swift technical but my experiences so far with them don’t inspire any confidence!

Seems a bit of a minefield…
Click to expand...
That's a huge jump in capacity, from a usable 50ah to a usable 280ah. Are you upgrading your inverter to take advantage of the upgrade, Or just need longer off grid capacity?

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So long as you have a lead acid setting the. The in board charger will get it up to its max and the solar with the right lithium setting will top up the rest if needed. We went almost a week without solar and driving for about an hour each day without a B2B on a 304ah Fogstar and only dropped to about 30% and that was using kettle, microwave as and when we wanted to!
 
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Can't comment on the technical side but we fitted a 300ah Fogstar in March, we were able to just drop it into our 2019 Pilote and only needed to change the profile to Lithium. Brilliant bit of kit, just done 5 nights off grid and it only dropped down to 92%. The Fogstar Bluetooth app is ok but we found a Lithium monitoring app better.
 
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I have a compact Swift with a EC600 and px300 charger, your Kontiki is likely to have something bigger and more powerful, however, I can tell you that the EC600 and px300 charge my 230ah lithium to 99%, not sure about 100% as I have a Victron battery master constantly trickle charging the cab battery to maintain it at 12.9v in storage. I do not know if it makes any difference to charging on ehu, however, I also had a b to b fitted at the same time.
 
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Geistguy said:
Can't comment on the technical side but we fitted a 300ah Fogstar in March, we were able to just drop it into our 2019 Pilote and only needed to change the profile to Lithium. Brilliant bit of kit, just done 5 nights off grid and it only dropped down to 92%. The Fogstar Bluetooth app is ok but we found a Lithium monitoring app better.
Click to expand...
What app do you use?
 
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MisterB said:
So long as you have a lead acid setting the.
Click to expand...
I stand to be corrected Dave, but I always thought that the Gel charging profile at 14.4v, was the closest to the Lithium charging profile, with the Lead Acid profile being too high at 14.8v?

I am all set up myself to receive LiFeP04, with the correct Lithium settings on my B2B and 2 x solar controllers. My CBE charger has a Gel setting, which on the very few times I am on EHU, would still do the job. (y)

Cheers,

Jock. :)
 
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Bolti said:
What app do you use?
Click to expand...
I use the XiaoXiang bms app from Google Play Store. Remember to create a security login when prompted. I hope this link works. if not it's the app with a white elephant on a blue background.

play.google.com

小象电动 - Apps on Google Play

Little Elephant Electric 2.0 is an APP specially developed for lithium batteries
play.google.com play.google.com

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Blimey, Pandora’s box…. What’s worse case if I just drop in the lithium? I’ve got the Command panel to tell me state of charge etc. could any damage be caused or is it that the charge rate could be inadequate?
 
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Rozzer said:
Blimey, Pandora’s box…. What’s worse case if I just drop in the lithium? I’ve got the Command panel to tell me state of charge etc. could any damage be caused or is it that the charge rate could be inadequate?
Click to expand...
If you don't have a B2B with the correct profile you could burn our the alternator or overload the wiring and get a nice fire.

Without the correct mains charger you may never fully charge the battery, with incorrect voltages you could do damage to the battery.

Same applies to the solar controller.

You are spending all that money on a Lithium to get better performance it's not worth pissing about for a few quid just do the job properly.
 
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Rozzer said:
Blimey, Pandora’s box…. What’s worse case if I just drop in the lithium? I’ve got the Command panel to tell me state of charge etc. could any damage be caused or is it that the charge rate could be inadequate?
Click to expand...
Your command panel will be as good as useless on lifepo4. Unless it has a lifepo4 setting. Lead voltages are different than Li, so any estimations will be out.
Charge rate it’s not a issue as it’s the charging profile. Most have robust BMS protection against abuse, but, if that fails, you don’t have a second line of protection.
Use the right charging profile to avoid triggering the bms protection for daily use. Bms it’s there as a second line of defence. Don’t abuse that.
 
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If finance were an issue, drop to 200 ah of lithium. 300 ah is a massive amount of electricity if you have been used to 100 ah of lead acid. You are increasing your well of electricity by 6 fold and speeding up the recharging process at the same time.
Unless there is an absolute need for 300ah that hasnt been mentioned

We have 2 Ebikes 300 watts of solar (only using 100 watt recently) and charge 2 ebikes nearly fully, 2 phones, a vape, camera and use a small amount of tv and lights, though we are nt very much winter users and that is more than sufficient for us and not got close to being slightly concerned

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JockandRita said:
I stand to be corrected Dave, but I always thought that the Gel charging profile at 14.4v, was the closest to the Lithium charging profile, with the Lead Acid profile being too high at 14.8v?

I am all set up myself to receive LiFeP04, with the correct Lithium settings on my B2B and 2 x solar controllers. My CBE charger has a Gel setting, which on the very few times I am on EHU, would still do the job. (y)

Cheers,

Jock. :)
Click to expand...
Might be true of some mains chargers but not all. On my CBE CB516 mains charger I find the lead setting better than the Gel one. The Gel one at 14.4V is an ok voltage for LiFePO4 but it has a very long absorption phase which is not. Gel need a long absorption phase but LiFePO4 do not. Surprisingly the lead setting is lower at 14.1V and has a much shorter absorption phase. At 14.1V a 100% charge may not be achieved but LiFePO4 batteries are happy with this, some people argue it is better for them than a full charge. I find no need whatsoever to have a full battery when on a hook up, I only need 100% when I arrive somewhere without a hook up and the B2B takes care of this.
 
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Pausim said:
Might be true of some mains chargers but not all. On my CBE CB516 mains charger I find the lead setting better than the Gel one. The Gel one at 14.4V is an ok voltage for LiFePO4 but it has a very long absorption phase which is not. Gel need a long absorption phase but LiFePO4 do not. Surprisingly the lead setting is lower at 14.1V and has a much shorter absorption phase. At 14.1V a 100% charge may not be achieved but LiFePO4 batteries are happy with this, some people argue it is better for them than a full charge. I find no need whatsoever to have a full battery when on a hook up, I only need 100% when I arrive somewhere without a hook up and the B2B takes care of this.
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Very interesting Paul, as I have the same mains charger.

I'll have to do some more homework. ;)

Thanks.

Jock. :)
 
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I too have a CBE CB516 mains charger. I can't find a way to turn off the desulfation mode. I understand that can be an issue with lithium?
 
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Tigger-Tim said:
I too have a CBE CB516 mains charger. I can't find a way to turn off the desulfation mode. I understand that can be an issue with lithium?
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This de-sulphation mode seems to be a feature on some of the newer CB516 models. At 15.2V I would not use it on LiFePO4, I don’t know what triggers this phase but if it did cut in it would be too much. I doubt that it can be disabled and if not and it were me I would replace the charger with an Li one.
 
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Pausim said:
This de-sulphation mode seems to be a feature on some of the newer CB516 models. At 15.2V I would not use it on LiFePO4, I don’t know what triggers this phase but if it did cut in it would be too much. I doubt that it can be disabled and if not and it were me I would replace the charger with an Li one.
Click to expand...
I must have an older model, as the manual doesn't mention a desulphation stage, so another plus for retaining it if/when LiFeP04 is installed.

Cheers,

Jock. :)

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If/when I go lithium, I'll probably wire the existing CB516-3 to the starter battery and put in a dedicated lithium charger/inverter.
 
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JockandRita said:
I must have an older model, as the manual doesn't mention a desulphation stage, so another plus for retaining it if/when LiFeP04 is installed.

Cheers,

Jock. :)
Click to expand...
Yep, a CBE A2018 with Gel and Lead settings, with a maximum charging voltage of 14.4v.

Cheers,

Jock. :)
 
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This is the reply from Fogstar, still waiting for Sargent and Swift. Any opinion on the Fogstar response welcome! :

Hi Graham,

This has a 14.4V boost voltage and a 13.6V float. Both are ideal for our batteries, it will be a direct swap.


I advised Fogstar that I have a Sargent battery charger PX300.
 
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Just for the record, finally received a reply from Sargent who advised my PX300 charger would work fine with the 300ah Fogstar battery which I have fitted and working fine:

Hi Graham,


Your van is fitted with the PX300 charger. This charger has been tested with various types as in GEL, AGM, Lithium ion and so on. We highly recommend forwarding the technical guide of the charger to the battery manufacturer as they should be able to confirm the compatibility. I hope this helps.

Had no response at all from Swift technical as expected.

Hope this May help other Funsters, thanks for all your input folks!
 
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