Ford Transit Under Cab Seat Twin Batteries

[Campervan_man]

Bought a MK7 2010 Ford Tranny Van to Use as a Work Van with some Creature Comforts.
Never owned a Tranny Van before.
I will be using it as a self-employed work van.
Before I start waffling My question is:-
Under the driver's seat there are 2 batteries.
I want to add a 20A dual solar charge controller to trickle charge these batteries as well as another 100A added leisure battery
the other side of the bulkhead to run some LED lights, 12V socket and a Chinese Diesel Heater.
On the roof is a 120W solar panel.
The Ford Owner's manual says do NOT connect anything to the actual batteries under the cab seat but use ONE of THREE 60A MAX designated auxiliary fuses at the back of the seat near the handbrake { Dusty Picture with plastic cover removed }.
I intend fitting one of the dual solar charger outputs to the upper POSITIVE 60A Midi fuses and below is a convenient NEG point.
The + will also be protected by an added inline 15A fuse.
I have topped the batteries up with distilled water as they were low and I am also jet washing the seats are they are covered in dust.
If anyone out there has experience of adding a solar charge controller to charge Tranny batteries do let Me know.
Under the bonnet is the usual jump starter points but the idea is not to let the batteries go flat.
All the Ford Transit Manual says is to phone Ford for advice..............?????
Pics Below :-

 

[tonyidle]

I would say connect as normal or if you prefer to the jump start terminals.

 

[autorouter]

Am I right in thinking that one of the batteries is the starter battery, and the other is a leisure battery, and there is a split charge relay between the two?

This relay connects the leisure battery to the starter battery when the engine is running, so that the alternator can charge them both. When the engine stops, it disconnects, so if you drain the leisure battery, the starter battery remains full.

I intend fitting one of the dual solar charger outputs to the upper POSITIVE 60A Midi fuses and below is a convenient NEG point.
The + will also be protected by an added inline 15A fuse.

Sounds a good idea to me. The second output can go to the starter battery, via a small fuse, and will keep the starter topped up, useful if the van is not moved for a few days.

another 100A added leisure battery
the other side of the bulkhead to run some LED lights, 12V socket and a Chinese Diesel Heater.

These can be run off the existing leisure battery, but putting the extra battery in parallel will give you more capacity - you can treat the two like one big battery. Probably a good idea to put a fuse at BOTH ends of the wire linking the two positives together.

 

[andy63]

The rear battery is the start battery....
The front one is the aux battery that runs the vehicle systems when the ignition is off...
As said the two batteries are connected when the engine is running and isolated from each bother when engine is off..
A good system that ensures you can always start. But if the aux battery starts to run out it does cause all sorts of weird things to happen..
If you want information on the set up go to the ford etis site and download the relevant bemm manual for your vehicle for free..its there to advise converters of ford vehicles ...
Andy

 

[Campervan_man]

Cheers for the advice. If the Dual controller charges the 2 cab batteries and the leisure battery behind the bulkhead I will be happy. I will be fitting an intelligent 240V charger as well. I've disconnected the lights in the back that come on automatically when you open the doors as I have fitted low wattage 'switched' LED strip lights in the back. Ordered a T60 Star Drive Socket so I can remove the dual passenger seat and jet wash that as well. A clean van is a happy van.

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[68c]

Cheers for the advice. If the Dual controller charges the 2 cab batteries and the leisure battery behind the bulkhead I will be happy. I will be fitting an intelligent 240V charger as well. I've disconnected the lights in the back that come on automatically when you open the doors as I have fitted low wattage 'switched' LED strip lights in the back. Ordered a T60 Star Drive Socket so I can remove the dual passenger seat and jet wash that as well. A clean van is a happy van.

You speak of two batteries and an additional leisure battery. Are you absolutely certain the two underseat batteries are cab batts. It has been suggested one is a cab (starter) batt and the other a leisure batt. It is important to find out which case is true. I would be surprised if they are both cab batts.

Once you have confirmed what you actually have I am sure the forum can help you.

 

[hilldweller]

The rear battery is the start battery....
The front one is the aux battery that runs the vehicle systems when the ignition is off...
As said the two batteries are connected when the engine is running

That makes for some interesting problems. I wonder if he needs to use one output of a dual regulator for each battery, then one of those Cak Tank CBE12 units to feed the leisure battery.

Plenty of room to get this wrong.

 

[andy63]

That makes for some interesting problems. I wonder if he needs to use one output of a dual regulator for each battery, then one of those Cak Tank CBE12 units to feed the leisure battery.

Plenty of room to get this wrong.

When I converted a mk7 transit with the same set up of vehicle batteries I basically kept the two systems of hab batteries that I installed under the passenger seat and vehicle batteries separate.. The hab side had its own separate fuse box and distribution set up..
I had a sterling mains charger with three outputs which fed start battery... Vehicle aux battery and the habitation battery when on hook up..
The vehicle auxiliary battery and the hab battery were linked with a 120amp blue sea dual sensing voltage sensitive relay...
That ensured the vehicle aux battery got a charge off the solar connected to the leisure batteries and when the engine was running it ensured the leisure batteries got something from the alternator..
The relay mentioned was what I referred to as a poor mans battery to battery charger, but in the time I had the van the system worked well..

If the op looks back in it might be worth looking to see if the special vehicle option of an auxiliary fuse box and relays is fed from one of the 60amp feeds on the back of the drivers seat plinth.. Not all vans have it as standard but where fitted can be a useful addition and save a lot of work.. I was happy to use it as i was happy my vehicle aux battery was been kept well charged..
That fuse box if fitted is buried in the dash behind the glove box..

Andy..

 

[Campervan_man]

Recently bought MK7 Transit 2010.
It's going to be a hybrid camper / work local and away type van.
The front seats are coming out to be jet washed as they are Dusty.
Under the front cab seat are two batteries.
One is a 60A { thought to be a starter battery ]
The other has limited identification markings { thought to be an auxilliary battery}.
SORNED Van has mainly been parked up as it was dropped off as part of the deal.
Just moved around the driveway.
The electrolyte was low so topped them up.
I've connected a Dual 20A charge controller to a 100A leisure battery behind the bulkhead and the other dual controller feed has gone to a 'designated' AUX 60A Max MIDI fuse adjacent to the underseat front batteries.
A FORD warning label on the front seat batteries states WARNING do NOT connect anything directly to these batteries.
The Ford Manual says not to connect directly to the underseat batteries.
There is a big relay.
I'm not bothered about the alternator charging the battery in the back.
I will be checking that the all 3 batteries will be trickle charged by the 120W solar panel.
I think that is happening but will check.
I'm converting the van so most of my effort is going in to that.
I will be fitting an intelligent 240V battery charger in the back as well as a back up.
I have a jump pack but just want all 3 batteries to trickle charge with the solar panel.
The other day I had to use the jump pack to start the van as the starter was low { not quite flat }.
The Ford batteries are probably old and may be on their last legs.
I call the 2 batteries in the front CAB batteries as they are in the CAB.
Albeit one is a starter and the other an AUX battery.
The other battery in the back is a HAB battery.
I was hoping to finish the van asap to do a few Motorhome jobs but due to .gov advice will be staying home like most other people.

 

[autorouter]

Sorry, I hadn't appreciated that the second battery was a second vehicle systems battery. I'd say in that case connect the two solar outputs to the Hab battery and the Aux battery, and get a BatteryMaster to connect between the Aux and Starter batteries to trickle charge the starter battery.

Did the starter battery go flat for a reason - for example playing the radio for a few hours while you are stopped? A BatteryMaster will compensate the starter battery for small drains like alarms but not larger drains like radio or lighting.

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[Campervan_man]

I'm not driving the van, just occasionally moving it . I will check the voltages of the 3 batteries to see which is being trickle charged by the solar panel being connected using the Ford AUX 60A midi fuse + and - below the fuses. { There are 3 factory fitted 60A MAX Aux positions that I can use, I've used the top one }. I'm hoping all 3 batteries are being trickle charged. I will check with My multi-meter tomorrow.

 

[andy63]

I will be checking that the all 3 batteries will be trickle charged by the 120W solar panel.

I don't think they will all be getting charged if you have connected the solar via the 60amp off take at the rear of the seat plinth... that connection is taken from the vehicle auxiliary battery...the front one... which is isolated from the start battery when the engine is shut down..
did you see my advice about having a look on the ford etis site to download the relevant converters manual...

Did the starter battery go flat for a reason - for example playing the radio for a few hours while you are stopped?

couple things.. the start battery doesn't supply the radio... thats done by the second vehicle aux battery and the radio is on a power save function anyway.... it would have to be switched on at the end of the power save time.. that was about 20 min on mine but I know it can be varied if plugged into the right diagnostic gear.

 

[andy63]

I knew I had some photos
I went to a bit of trouble at the time to get to the bottom of what was installed in the van I bought...
basically a builders van but still in decent nick..
I know you don't intend removing the bulkhead to do what I did but here's some photos..


leisure batteries under passanger seat

dash out while I traced a few wires

 

[andy63]

one more.. the auxiliary fuse box that is fitted as an option on some fords that have the two battery set up is the grey plastic lump hanging on the red wires just above the cup of tea
I did say in an earlier post it would be worth checking to see if you had one fitted..

 

[Campervan_man]

Wow Andy, good work. I won't be stripping the dash down.
I appreciate all your advice and info.
I will see what's being charged by the 120W solar panel.
My priority for solar charging is the 60A starter battery so that the van starts and the leisure battery in the back of the van.

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[andy63]

My priority for solar charging is the 60A starter battery so that the van starts and the leisure battery in the back of the van.

I'm going to have to disagree with your priority...
Assuming your start battery is fit for purpose and hasn't been swapped out for something not up to the job the installed ford system of two batteries does protect the start battery from any discharge and as long as the alternator is doing its job the start battery will be fine without solar..
The battery that needs keeping charged is the front battery or auxiliary one..thats the one that runs all the small loads when the engine is shut down.. And of course your extra leisure battery you are installing..
I'm assuming its been installed as a separate unit and not paralleled with the vehicle auxiliary battery...
Andy..

 

[Campervan_man]

Update:
Stand alone 100A leisure battery behind bulkhead in back of van is behind trickle charged by the 120W Solar Panel.
'Thought to be' a 100A Aux Battery is also being trickle charged by the Dual solar Charge Controller via the 60A Ford Transit Aux midi fuse connection point.
Starter battery not being trickle charged but was 12.6V.
Engine started easily now the 100A Aux battery is fully charged.
I think the Aux 100A AUX battery being low was dragging the starter 60A battery down.
2 front batteries read 14.5V with the engine running { Alternator charged }.
I'm happy with the set up for now.
The electrolyte was below min on both front batteries so a shot of distilled water in each cell can only have helped.
Thanks Andy for your valuable advice, much appreciated.
I've also seen the label on the door pillar RE;- www.etisford.com/fordservice so will be having a shufty at that when I have 5 mins.

 

[Just smiffy]

one more.. the auxiliary fuse box that is fitted as an option on some fords that have the two battery set up is the grey plastic lump hanging on the red wires just above the cup of tea
I did say in an earlier post it would be worth checking to see if you had one fitted..

View attachment 371646

the lengths some people go to stop your trannie getting nicked...?

 

[autoswan]

My mk7 2.5 diesel trany with the 2 batteries under driver seat has started to struggle starting in the mornings since the cold weather and lack of use since lock down, though I've had it on smart charger and sometimes recon setting most is the time.
It seems to have a bit of poke to turn it over early mornings but if doesn't kick off within the first minute it runs out of power and needs charging again. But if I try starting it early afternoon when weather's warmed up a bit it usually starts easier ?

The door sensor icon on dash shows door open when locked and it beeps when I lock it so maybe draining aux battery affecting ignition battery ?
After mechanic that serviced it last week couldn't find fault I'm hoping to get auto electrician to look at it and test batteries, alternator before knowing if batteries are caput ?

I'm much better with bricks n mortar than vehicle mechanicals, so thinking apart from checking fluid levels in batteries and working out ihow / if small volt meter ive got can test altenator and batteries is there anything else easy I can do before handing it over to experts ?
Thanks.

 

[sazmuz]

My mk7 2.5 diesel trany with the 2 batteries under driver seat has started to struggle starting in the mornings since the cold weather and lack of use since lock down, though I've had it on smart charger and sometimes recon setting most is the time.
It seems to have a bit of poke to turn it over early mornings but if doesn't kick off within the first minute it runs out of power and needs charging again. But if I try starting it early afternoon when weather's warmed up a bit it usually starts easier ?

The door sensor icon on dash shows door open when locked and it beeps when I lock it so maybe draining aux battery affecting ignition battery ?
After mechanic that serviced it last week couldn't find fault I'm hoping to get auto electrician to look at it and test batteries, alternator before knowing if batteries are caput ?

I'm much better with bricks n mortar than vehicle mechanicals, so thinking apart from checking fluid levels in batteries and working out ihow / if small volt meter ive got can test altenator and batteries is there anything else easy I can do before handing it over to experts ?
Thanks.

Wondering if you ever managed to fix this issue? Mine is the 2.2 but exact same issue starting and with the side door not locking. Mechanic had a look and couldn't find anything wrong, told me to take it to a Ford specilist but I dont want to spend that kind of money if its an easy fix!

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[gus-lopez]

Wondering if you ever managed to fix this issue? Mine is the 2.2 but exact same issue starting and with the side door not locking. Mechanic had a look and couldn't find anything wrong, told me to take it to a Ford specilist but I dont want to spend that kind of money if its an easy fix!

Mine does it but with the rear doors on occasions. The door is not locked if it beeps the horn. Initially it would unlock ALL the doors if one door does not lock. I fitted a 2nd hand lock to the rear doors but it still does it occasionally & i have to push on the door whilst locking with the remote.
starting could be glow plugs or battery, they should start instantly . Turn on wait for lights to go out & turn key . Should start within half a turn.They should not crank for any length of time that might point to fuel problem?
The battery to start them needs to be 100% otherwise they won't start.