Fiat 9 speed with 180HP engine gearbox problems.

I had a 140 bhp Compactline .. I bought it because in all other ways the spec was right, even though ideally I was looking for the 180, but have to say the 140 it didn't feel underpowered.
 
I chose the 140 with the 9 speed over the 180 because it would have added another year to the order time (Pilote), it performs as well if not better than the 150 with Comformatic we had previously. We are a 3.5t, 7m MH, so we don't know if it works on the heavier vans but it certainly runs up and down Swiss mountain passes without effort, now at 21,000km (since Sept 2023) and averaging 10 litres per 100km on diesel and 10 litres of AdBlu per 2500 km.
 
peterseabrook said:
Originally we thought that the compactline we have just purchased the dealer thought we had the 180 hp engine . I got the original build list from Carthago and it is the 140 hp engine. Not so disappointed after reading this.

In German but Google automatically translates.

https://www.promobil.de/neuheiten/automatikprobleme-beim-fiat-ducato/
Click to expand...
I am looking at the magazine now having translated it to English, there are many pages with many useful tips on motorhomes and touring in general. Can you point me toward the page that mentions the The 180 BHP Versus the 140BHP engines.
Interesting to see so many posts on the consequences of driving overweight, looks like the authorities/police are tightening up by doing more roadside weight checks than they did in the past.
Many Thanks.
LES
 
There was a long article about the 180 hp engine chewing through gearboxes and a number of letters from people who have had the problem. Some with very low mileage, more common in heavy vans . Metal in the gearbox oil points to failure under load. I understand a software update reduced the torque.

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Link to the full article, rather worrying. Fiat know there is a problem.

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Podcast: Getriebeschaden beim Ducato mit 9-Gang-Automatik

Die Neungang-Wandlerautomatik hatte bislang viele Fans. Ab 2023 traten aber immer häufiger Probleme auf. Inzwischen gibt es eine Lösung direkt von Fiat. Wir beantworten die wichtigsten Fragen in einem FAQ und im Podcast.
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This is the worrying part, Fiat/Stelantis are not doing enough to help these unfortunate customers as listed below, and not IMHO compensating them any way near enough for their very bad experiences. I also noted that the advice given by the reviewers on whether the new 8 speed gearbox will be any better, that their advice to potential near future buyers was to buy a manual gearbox!
Customer Reviews:

Dramatic descriptions from our readers​

Damage to the automatic transmission of Fiat Ducatos appears to be on the rise. Following our initial reports, many readers contacted us with reports of their vehicles affected by this problem. Some of the descriptions sound dramatic, but at the very least, frustrating.
Sometimes, defects in the 9-speed automatic transmission occur even at low mileage . Fiat's Camper Assistance service is often unable to provide assistance, if it can even be reached. Sometimes sellers claim they are not responsible; after all, the defects are covered by the Fiat warranty, and neither the dealer nor the motorhome manufacturer is responsible for the defects. Occasionally, even Fiat Professional workshops give up on repairs or replacements for a motorhome. Long wait times for spare parts are cited as a strikingly common cause of repair delays.
There appears to be no solid evidence regarding the cause of the damage. Some argue a connection with the vehicle's high weight, while others link the transmission damage to the high-torque 180 hp engine. However, heavier and therefore more expensive motorhomes are disproportionately often purchased with the top-of-the-line engine and automatic transmission. Fiat is now called upon to provide clarification and unbureaucratic assistance.

Letters to the editor: Experiences with the Ducato gearbox failure​

We've received and continue to receive many letters on this topic. Almost all of them concern their own misery with the Ducato transmission. We've collected some of the experiences and opinions here for you:
Annette and Olaf Kuntze, via email : "We are also among those affected. Our 2024 Alpa A 6820-2, with approximately 7,500 kilometers on the clock, had to be towed in Austria on September 28, 2024, on our way to Croatia due to transmission problems. The error code was read out at the workshop in Austria and an update was installed. The transmission fluid was also checked. At the workshop's recommendation, we cut short our vacation and drove home slowly. Despite this precautionary measure, the " Transmission Check" and "Transmission Oil Temperature Too High" warning lights came on. We are now waiting for a workshop appointment. We hope that after a possible transmission replacement, this error will not occur again."
Hans Krüger, via email : "I also had this problem in September, with about 6,500 km on the clock. The Laika Ecovip H 4109, weighing 4.4 tons, with 180 hp and a 9-speed torque converter transmission (first registered in February 2024), is now in a Fiat Professional workshop. After just 3.5 hours, Fiat promised to send me a new transmission with control unit and hydraulic lines. Unfortunately, no one can say when these parts will arrive. Added to this are the problems with Fiat's camper service: unavailable for hours; when you do reach someone, you get contradictory information; they only offer a station wagon to empty your vehicle, etc. Since some campers have been parked for more than 10 weeks at the moment, it's safe to assume the situation will worsen and the vehicle will need to be winterized. Our vehicle cost about 165,000 euros; I don't want to think about the depreciation of this one, assuming anyone even wants to buy it."
Michael Reiche, via email : "My vehicle (registered in November 2023) has been at Fiat since the end of July with a defective transmission, even with just 5,500 km on the clock. So far, I haven't received any feedback on when it will be repaired. Our motorhome is a Carthago Liner for two with a 5.4 t gross vehicle weight and a 180 hp engine. As I've read in many other forums, we're not the only ones. Fiat is simply ducking the boat and leaving the owners in the lurch. There's no mention of generous goodwill arrangements or an extended warranty. Perhaps a class action declaratory judgment, as some of the injured parties are seeking, is the only way to make their voices heard."
Claus Müller, via email : "My new motorhome (registered August 15, 2022), a Ducato 2.2 diesel, 180 hp, 9-speed automatic, first encountered an error message in January 2024 regarding the transmission ( check transmission + transmission oil too hot ). We also noticed a partial loss of power on inclines. During the first inspection – mileage approx. 42,000 km – the error log was read and the transmission oil was topped up according to the service report. After that, the vehicle ran perfectly until the beginning of May 2024. At 56,446 km, the same error occurred again. We also noticed the increased fuel consumption from approx. 9-10 l/100 km to 15-18 l/100 km. The vehicle went back to the workshop on May 3, 2024 for about 10 days. After that, it worked without any problems. Furthermore, the work was not charged because of the warranty.
On a long trip to Portugal, at 64,295 km, the same error message again and no mileage, at times even to the point of the vehicle coming to a standstill. On June 29, 2024, I notified the Fiat Camper Service near Ronda (Spain), and the vehicle was picked up by a Spanish towing service and transported to a Fiat Professional workshop in Malaga. I stayed in a hotel in Spain for four days and then flew back to Germany. On July 26, 2024, I arranged for the ADAC to transport the unrepaired vehicle to my Fiat workshop in Mannheim. The vehicle has not been repaired to this day.
Sabine Vogelsang, via email: "We were fobbed off with promising software updates and kept waiting for weeks. My eight-month-old motorhome drove only 500 meters from the workshop, and the transmission issue recurred: jerky upshifts into second gear, and ultimately no upshifts were possible. We are waiting for a new transmission, which apparently isn't available at the moment. Fiat workshops are definitely aware that a simple software update won't do the trick."
Siegfried Reiche, via email : "In July 2024, we had exactly the problems described with our Bürstner Lyseo (180 hp, registered in October 2023 and 12,000 km with a 4.5 t GVW) in southern Italy. The first Professional Partner cleared the transmission error, with the comment that I shouldn't put too much strain on the transmission. Thirty kilometers later, the same error occurred again: engine control, transmission control, transmission oil temperature too high. Two other workshops I visited couldn't do anything. Finally, in Pescara, the Fiat Professional dealer Giasante Auto was able to help us. They kept our vehicle for three hours. When we got our vehicle back, the customer service manager told us we should shift manually on inclines whenever possible, which would protect the transmission.
We cut short our trip toward Gallipoli and drove cautiously toward home. The transmission held up until about five kilometers from home. We received professional service at the Fiat Professional dealer, Rhein Nutzfahrzeuge in Heilbronn. There were chips/metal debris throughout the entire oil circuit. It took at least four weeks for the new transmission to arrive because too many transmissions were backordered.
Franz Lenz, via email: "Our 2013 Knaus Sky I (150,000 km) has been at the dealer here in southern Germany near Sigmaringen for three months now. The dealer seemed completely overwhelmed from the start and, even before the scan report had been read, immediately talked about replacing the entire Selespeed, clutch, and transmission. Original sound: ... and since the engine is already out, we'll also replace the alternator, hoses, and check the turbo . Estimated at over €20,000. One wonders: is this excessive demand or a rip-off, or both?! The dealer couldn't put a final cost estimate on paper. Fiat FCA was contacted, but to date, they haven't really come up with a solution. It's simply a drama, and I'm wondering where I can get help?"
Jürgen Gerlach, via email: "Unfortunately, I'm also one of those affected, having experienced the second transmission failure of my nine-speed automatic transmission in one year. The first transmission failure occurred at 7,300 km, and the second transmission failure now occurred in Sweden at 13,300 km. The vehicle will be two years old in February/March 2025. The current damage can no longer be repaired this year, so I'll have to do without the motorhome for a full year out of the two years."
Thomas Boss, via email: "I'm a victim of this transmission myself. It happened to us on the way back from Brittany in June. However, no oil light or other warning light came on. Instead, the transmission suddenly started grinding in the lower gears while driving up a slight hill, at a volume as if a coffee grinder was running right next to my ear. The Fiat workshop recorded the loud noises and then analyzed the oil. There were no chips, and the oil wasn't black. They were baffled. The recordings and various reports were sent to engineers in Italy. A succinct answer: Remove the transmission, remove the oil cooler, and replace all the lines.
My vehicle, a Carthago Chic-C Line Integrated EZ 4.22 with 29,000 km, unfortunately expired under warranty two months early, and my dilemma began. There's a former Fiat workshop in our town that specializes in motorhomes. Because I went there, Fiat rejected my goodwill claim for "workshop disloyalty," leaving me with €16,000 in repair costs.
Markus Pa, on Facebook: "We had the same problem. After 2,300 kilometers! The vehicle (Sunlight A70 4.4 tons) was in the workshop in South Tyrol for nine weeks."
olni38, on Instagram: "After a good 20,000 km and shortly before the end of the warranty, a warning message prompted us to have the transmission checked. After an unsuccessful update, it was clear: The transmission needed to be replaced. So, no travel for the time being. The RV has been in the workshop for weeks. Fiat has approved the replacement, but is keeping quiet about the delivery time to the workshop. Apparently, a replacement transmission should arrive at the dealership only 1-2 weeks after approval. We're experiencing the complete opposite."
anne11e_o.o, on Instagram: "Our transmission was defective after 5,000 km, model year 2023 and 180 hp."
 
Is that not the reason Fiat have done a recall for certain vans with the 9-speed auto, to reduce the strain on the gearbox?
 
peterseabrook said:
The only way of doing that is to reduce the power from the engine or to keep it in a lower gear.
Click to expand...
Logically you raise the point at which the auto box changes up to reduce the torque strain on the gearbox.

The picture I have is that the heavier the van the greater the risk of auto box damage.

P.S. I feel for you all. Outrageous that you should pay sums approaching or exceeding £100k and have the vehicle off the road for many months.
It niggles me that I have to "play tunes" on my 5 speed box at the legion of roundabouts on French D roads but I would now think twice about a change of van to one with an auto box.

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