Extra 240v sockets.

[the2ofus]

Has anyone ever put extra sockets in their motorhome? In our Autotrail we have one of those lift-up 3 gang things which are adequate for say the kettle and toaster but it gets a little crowded on the small worktop space. I would like an extra one in the front area for a small fan heater and another in the panelling under the seating in the u-shaped lounge. I can see that running cables is going to be difficult. Has anyone overcome this? Please don't say use extension leads. I HATE them. I anticipate a flood of solutions!!

 

[Mikeco]

You need to find the existing 240v cable and take it from there by using a junction box, you may be able to put in some cable where you wish to end up.

 

[PP Bear]

Fitted an extra 2 in my Autotrail. Look for the black boxes that house the connector points and it’s simply a case of adding the wiring and the socket. Sorry no photos, as van is in storage yard.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

The sockets themselves is the easy bit. There are various slightly differing styles in colour and trim but probably CBE manufacturer commonly available through the rainforest, or ebay if not an accessories supplier.

Fitting will need a process of elimination to release and gain access to cubby holes to route any cable. Remember before you actually fit something, measure twice, cut once. Screws need to be very small.

Wiring is probably a radial, rather than ring main. Find the last socket in the line furthest from the main consumer unit thing and you should be able to extend. If you start from a mid point then be careful, as you shouldn't normally be adding spurs (a single socket) midline, so want to go out from one socket to your new socket then from that to the next in line.

Remember to use a flex type rather than rigid single core cable. Should be minimum 1.5mm2 three core.

Think about how many sockets you are adding. Your overall circuit is limited by the fuse and cable size, but also the amount of power when on hook up. Ultimately you are adding socket locations for convenience not to be able to use more at once.

Oh and the usual safety stuff applies. If you aren't sure, mains electric can kill so make sure whoever does it is competent.

 

[Bolti]

On my consumer unit there are two spare connections on the rear, so worth checking
They are mate n lok connectors.

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[royandsharont]

I was once told you must run any extra sockets back to the fuse box in Motorhomes and use stranded wires, but I have no personal knowledge or experience. Reading above suggests this is not the case and you can tap into the circuit although the type of wires needed is consistent.

I don’t really understand what a radial system, mentioned by Kannon Fodda so not sure if that method is the same as taking it back to the fuse box or not.

Can anyone clarify the correct procedure for certain please

 

[grasscutter]

Definitely use stranded cable/flex not a twin and earth cable.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Most installations in buildings are now wired as ring circuits. The twin and earth cable connects to the fuse (or MCB, circuit trip fuse) at the consumer unit and then loops around the parts of the building through the various sockets with the far end of the circuit twin and earth connecting back to the same fuse. Effectively it's a big circle so current can flow both ways to any one socket and so the circuit can support a higher overall loading.

The radial circuit only has one end connected to the fuseboard. Each socket is connected in turn to the cable and the cable terminates at the last socket.

To support the same overall current capacity, the radial circuit wires may need to be thicker as the power can only flow one way compared to the ring main. There are limits in the number of sockets on a radial circuit which will support less outlets than a ring main.

In a building, unlikely to apply to the size of a motorhome, there are limits to the overall length of circuits, number of outlets, and even size of the building.

Note that in both radial and ring circuits the socket outlets are effectively in a long daisy chain, only difference is whether one or both ends of that chain connects to the same point in the fuseboard. In some circumstances, you can connect a spur, but to one outlet point only. This is more appropriate in a ring circuit, and not recommended for radial. You shouldn't effectively have a radial circuit off a ring circuit. The spur, is effectively a side branch taken from the connection off one outlet in the ring circuit. It's a permanently wired extension lead.

For your motorhome, keep things very simple, a radial circuit using flex stranded cord cable rather than the single core twin and earth of a home. Limit the overall number of outlets per circuit to three, perhaps four points, noting your fuse and main supply are not going to support multiple appliances.

 

[autorouter]

Ring main connections are a peculiarly British invention for wiring sockets in a house. Nobody outside the UK uses them, and there is no need to use them in a motorhome. The reason they are used is to save on copper wiring, so that a (double)2.5mm2 wire can carry 32A, with the downside that all plugs must have an inbuilt fuse.

Since hookup posts are limited to 16A, and motorhome breakers are 16A or less, you can wire as many sockets as you like, in a daisy-chain fashion, from a breaker using 1.5mm2 stranded flexible cable. Also called a 'radial' circuit.

Obviously you can't use a 2kW heater in all of them at the same time, but the idea is to position them for convenience so that trailing mains leads are minimised. I have over a dozen sockets - four over the kitchen worktop, two in the garage, one by the microwave, four around the seating area, one by the door and a couple in the cab area. The mains consumer unit has four breakers, but that's not necessary, I could have used two or even one.

You may find that the existing cable is colour-coded, for example in my Hymer 12V cable is black and mains cable is white, so it's best to stick to that to avoid future problems.

 

[MisterB]

On my Adria, each socket is fed by its own cable which all terminate within the consumer unit. I wouldn't be too concerned about extending any of the 'circuits' and adding an extra socket or even two. I just wouldn't use them all at the same time, as others have suggested, they would be added for convenience, NOT for enabling more high load appliances to be used at the same time.

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[sonar]

Yes fitted two additional sockets. Replaced the only one there was and added another in the garage and waterproof boxed one on the exterior for a awning ..
mine are on a ring in and out of the consumer box.

 

[AndyPK]

Not wanting to ‘compromise’ the ‘van’s warranty (and being basically lazy!) I added three extension leads, each of which has three 240v sockets and three USB ‘A’ sockets. They’re attached to the ‘van with Command tape strips, so they can be easily removed if necessary……..

 

[the2ofus]

Thanks for all the answers so far everyone. The biggest difficulty I have is not so much the connections as I can get an electrician to do these. I possibly might need an extra single consumer unit by the side of the existing one. The problem will be all the obstacles in the way i.e. the shower tray and fridge. I have investigated the possibility of routing the cables down through the floor then under the van and back up again where required in suitable conduit and sealed properly of course. after all several other services run underneath with no problem. Will this safe/allowable or a total no no? Any thoughts on this anyone?

 

[mitzimad]

no problem going underneath if properly protected it not live when driving unless youve got an invertor

 

[MisterB]

it might be better to remove the existing consumer unit and add one with more 'capacity', though i reckon you could just use what you have as all the sockets are never going to be able to provide more than 16A even if you had appliances running simultaneously. i would prefer to run the cables inside the van, but thats just personal preference and no reason why you cant run it in conduit, properly sealed. secured etc.

i would take the time to source matching the new sockets to the original and making them look 'stock' to the vehicle, and as suggested try to match the existing cabling. if you can, try to get a few 12v usb fittings installed at the same time.

installing additional sockets etc is where a battery operated multi tool/oscillating tool comes into its own!! makes the job so much easier and neater, though if the original sockets have a round back, then its a drill and hole cutter !

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[the2ofus]

Many thanks to all who replied. I still think that the best route is under the van as all the obstacles are too difficult to overcome but thanks again. Incidentally, does anyone know why those lift-up 3 gang socket things are 'upside down' i.e. the earth at the bottom and the two other pins at the top as compared to the standard way of fitting them?

 

[acropolis22]

Incidentally, does anyone know why those lift-up 3 gang socket things are 'upside down' i.e. the earth at the bottom and the two other pins at the top as compared to the standard way of fitting them?

Fitted by an Aussie?

 

[Trevor Wbm]

Thanks for all the answers so far everyone. The biggest difficulty I have is not so much the connections as I can get an electrician to do these. I possibly might need an extra single consumer unit by the side of the existing one. The problem will be all the obstacles in the way i.e. the shower tray and fridge. I have investigated the possibility of routing the cables down through the floor then under the van and back up again where required in suitable conduit and sealed properly of course. after all several other services run underneath with no problem. Will this safe/allowable or a total no no? Any thoughts on this anyone?

Without seeing the, err, current set up I may be on the wrong tack here, but if you're just after another socket next to the one you've got, can't you just run a short cable of the back of the existing one?

 

[AndyPK]

Or change it for a double socket…..?

 

[autorouter]

It looks strange to us, but many sockets around the world have an earth pin at the bottom, not the top. Danish and Swiss plugs for example. American plugs are often fitted with the earth at the bottom, not the top. Also Israel, and China, I think.

If they are the usual type (Berker or CBE) they can easily be removed and inverted if you prefer them that way.

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[Ian Bosman]

You need to find the existing 240v cable and take it from there by using a junction box, you may be able to put in some cable where you wish to end up.

I would recommend you acquire an electricians "snake" which allows you to pull through a cable in confined spaces. I found mine useful when wiring the rear camera installation where there is wiring for only one camera but i have two. The second looks down at the rear of the vehicle so i can see any obstruction. Also, as referred, trace the 240 volt wiring and add a junction box to run in an extra cable allowing the addition of the new power outlet. Buy one to match the existing as that way it looks more professional than buying a domestic socket. A search on the internet in motorhome/caravan parts dealers will soon indicate what you are after. Check of course that the circuit fuse/breaker is going to be up to the anticipated loads when all sockets are in use.

 

[Ian Bosman]

It looks strange to us, but many sockets around the world have an earth pin at the bottom, not the top. Danish and Swiss plugs for example. American plugs are often fitted with the earth at the bottom, not the top. Also Israel, and China, I think.

If they are the usual type (Berker or CBE) they can easily be removed and inverted if you prefer them that way.

I inverted one of my sockets in the motorhome as it is under a seat and a devil to plug into with the earth pin uppermost I found

 

[Ian Bosman]

Or change it for a double socket…..?

Short runs can be done by "daisy chaining" from one to another.

 

[the2ofus]

Wow. Plenty of suggestions out there. I hadn't thought of the Aussie solution. Hmmm. The new socket needs to be close to the front where her majesty sits to read in one of the captain seats. It's for a small fan heater as the blown air system only covers the the rear lounge and toilet area.

 

[Ian Bosman]

Wow. Plenty of suggestions out there. I hadn't thought of the Aussie solution. Hmmm. The new socket needs to be close to the front where her majesty sits to read in one of the captain seats. It's for a small fan heater as the blown air system only covers the the rear lounge and toilet area.

Have you thought of extending the blown air ducting? My motorhome has an outlet facing into the cab area for when static. Your electric socket solution may be easier, I admit

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[the2ofus]

Yes I have thought about that, but it would mean the ducting running along the surface. I definitely couldn't live with that.

 

[Bolti]

Many thanks to all who replied. I still think that the best route is under the van as all the obstacles are too difficult to overcome but thanks again. Incidentally, does anyone know why those lift-up 3 gang socket things are 'upside down' i.e. the earth at the bottom and the two other pins at the top as compared to the standard way of fitting them?

I had to reverse mine in the van. It is very close above a drawer so with anything plugged in you could not open the drawer.

 

[enark]

Fitted by an Aussie?

I assumed on my Burstner that this was just German lack of familiarity with UK protocols?

but fitted three extra as radials around my MH, quoted about £300 a go bit dealer, but purchased the sockets, covers and back boxes from spares4 for about £15 an install, most expensive item was the silvery plastic surrounds…..