Electric set up....

[Matt_Bask]

Good morning all,

So been lurking for a while and checking threads most days, lots of interesting reading! We have a 2022 Citroen relay and are in the process of converting it mostly ourselves. Never done this before and am getting close to the stage of thinking about electrics, this is a minefield for me as find the whole thing confusing despite hours of reading and YouTube. I am dyslexic and struggle with numbers and mostly learn by doing but more of a shotgun approach sadly butI can follow detailed instructions. I have a limited budget for this so cant go crazy, the options as I see it are:
1. Pay for someone to do electrics
2. Use a company like Nohma
3. Buy a DIY kit from Ebay etc

I know most people are going to say pay a company but we live in the highlands and logistically quite difficult and as I say budget will be tight! Nohma were talking around £2k mark but when I mentioned that we would like to be gas free and have an induction hob the quote then almost doubled, is this right?

I did speak to off grid power solutions briefly but don't think that is an option as distance from us is massive.

Thanks for taking the time to read the ramble!

Thoughts or suggestions gratefully appreciated!

 

[Carpmart]

So are you confident to do an electrical install, but just don’t know what to do?

If you’re a competent DIY, which I assume as you’re doing your own conversion, then TBH, the electrics are easy! Just find an installation diagram for something similar to what you want and follow that… I accept the dyslexia may make that more of a challenge, but ask about specific questions as you go along; there is a wealth of knowledge on Fun!

Or are you not confident, in which case, an Off Grid type company is your best bet!

 

[Matt_Bask]

So are you confident to do an electrical install, but just don’t know what to do?

If you’re a competent DIY, which I assume as you’re doing your own conversion, then TBH, the electrics are easy! Just find an installation diagram for something similar to what you want and follow that… I accept the dyslexia may make that more of a challenge, but ask about specific questions as you go along; there is a wealth of knowledge on Fun!

Or are you not confident, in which case, an Off Grid type company is your best bet!

Well I can follow diagrams etc but wouldn't know where to start or in what order. Am leaning towards a company to be honest just seemed a massive jump from £2k to £4 if you want a induction hob?

This forum is a goldmine of info tbh worth the cost of joining!

Thanks for the reply

 

[herald_400rl]

Well I can follow diagrams etc but wouldn't know where to start or in what order. Am leaning towards a company to be honest just seemed a massive jump from £2k to £4 if you want a induction hob?

This forum is a goldmine of info tbh worth the cost of joining!

Thanks for the reply

I can see that the labour would likely not increase too much but the products used would, youll need a much larger battery or 2, beefy inverter, more solar, larger b2b (if possible). All adds up.
What did they quote for initially vs to be full electric?

 

[Matt_Bask]

I can see that the labour would likely not increase too much but the products used would, youll need a much larger battery or 2, beefy inverter, more solar, larger b2b (if possible). All adds up.
What did they quote for initially vs to be full electric?

This is part of the email:

What we want:

Truama diesel / water heater

2 x usb chargers by table

Compressor fridge

Double plug in kitchen

Induction hob double fitted

Sink water pump

Flushable toilet

Shower dome fan

Water tank over wheel arch with pump

Maxair fans

Solar

Usb charger in rear above raised bed

Spot lights throughout the van ceiling

3 x reading lights

The reply:

A quick look at your system shows that, other than the induction hob, your off-grid 230V requirements are very modest. This means you could easily work with a 500VA inverter, which is inexpensive and does not require a large setup. As a rough starting figure, we could put together a system for around £2,600.

The induction hob is a different story. It would require a 3000VA inverter, a larger battery bank, and a higher-capacity charging system, along with upgraded cabling and fusing. A system like this would be closer to £4,500.

These are only rough costs at this stage. We can certainly look at ways to bring them down, such as adjusting the battery size, solar capacity, B2B charger, or battery monitoring. The figures above are simply to show the cost difference between a system with an induction hob and one withou

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[mikash]

How's the cost difference once you add gas installation to the no-induction option?

 

[Matt_Bask]

How's the cost difference once you add gas installation to the no-induction option?

I haven't really looked at the gas option mate as lots of hype around LPG being phased out? Maybe I shouldn't believe the hype? The cost of underslung gas was around the £800/900 fitted I think..

 

[mikash]

I haven't really looked at the gas option mate as lots of hype around LPG being phased out? Maybe I shouldn't believe the hype? The cost of underslung gas was around the £800/900 fitted I think..

i'm not really familiar with UK LPG availability etc. Just seems you are maybe actually comparing cooking vs no cooking unless you figure out what's the option. So gas hob, tank, piping, installation maybe?

You write of northern UK, that also means winter use will require more thought, like here in Finland. Many want the gas hob because offgrid use without solar doesnt then require so much battery.
The usual suggestion is a little excel exercise (there are online calculators as well) of estimating your average daily consumption. Multiply by days you desire to be offgrid and you have your worst case (winter) no charging scenario for battery capacity. Then add chargers (solar, b2b, mains) to taste.
Run the numbers both for with induction and with gas cooking, then you get a better idea of the required setup and cost for each.

On general level the ballpark quotes you were given sound realistic to me.

 

[StillGoing]

You won’t need much gas if it’s just for cooking. One funster reporting changing their gas cylinder every 18 months so you could save money by just having a 6Kg Calor/Flogas instead of an underslung.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

Have you checked out local colleges which train auto-sparks etc? It may be similar for this project as it was for me when I wanted some wood-working done. They sometimes need real world projects so their trainees can learn.

Before doing anything, I suggest you make a list of all electrical equipment you'll have in your vehicle. Kettle, fridge, microwave etc.

Then check their labels to get their maximum power consumption in kW.

1. For each appliance, multiply that value by the portion of hours per day that it may be used for.
Eg. A 2000W (2kW) kettle used for 8mins (0.12hrs), 5 times daily (0.6hr total) would be
2000 x 0.6 = 1200W

Add up those values for each appliance on the 230V side, to establish your max total daily power requirement. Add 10% to the requirement, to cover inefficiencies in the system and, to power the system components, eg inverter.

2. Separately, using some of those totals; add up the consumption of the items that may be used at the same time. Eg, you might be heating water whilst you cook a meal whilst your OH is using the hair dryer. Adding up the peak concurrent power consumption should give you the max to be produced through the inverter.

#1 this value will confirm how much electricity you need to generate per day, via solar, alternator or generator.

#2 that will show what size inverter you'll need.

Come back when you've worked out those values and I'll post a wiring diagram (photos of components and how they connect to others, rather than a technical wiring diagram) and it should (I hope) make things more clear.

Components you'll need include:-
Solar panels
Solar charge controller (mppt)
LiFePo4 battery bank
Battery charge monitor (aka shunt)
EHU socket (side of van) and cable to inverter/charger (a Multiplus, if using Victron)
Inverter/charger (multiplus)
DC-DC charger to take power from starter battery to leisure battery bank, when engine running
Two consumer units each to hold 1 double pole RCBO and then, for each appliance fed from it, 1 MCB.
You may also need busbars (junction bars) or distribution boxes (same purpose as busbar)
Then you'll need fusebox for 12V system.
You should also have two isolator switches, one on input from solar and one on input from EHU.

hth

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[Lenny HB]

This is part of the email:

What we want:

Truama diesel / water heater

2 x usb chargers by table

Compressor fridge

Double plug in kitchen

Induction hob double fitted

Sink water pump

Flushable toilet

Shower dome fan

Water tank over wheel arch with pump

Maxair fans

Solar

Usb charger in rear above raised bed

Spot lights throughout the van ceiling

3 x reading lights

The reply:

A quick look at your system shows that, other than the induction hob, your off-grid 230V requirements are very modest. This means you could easily work with a 500VA inverter, which is inexpensive and does not require a large setup. As a rough starting figure, we could put together a system for around £2,600.

The induction hob is a different story. It would require a 3000VA inverter, a larger battery bank, and a higher-capacity charging system, along with upgraded cabling and fusing. A system like this would be closer to £4,500.

These are only rough costs at this stage. We can certainly look at ways to bring them down, such as adjusting the battery size, solar capacity, B2B charger, or battery monitoring. The figures above are simply to show the cost difference between a system with an induction hob and one withou

For the amount of work you require, those quotes look very cheap and well worth a trip south.
You are unlikely to get a decedent job done for that price locally and that's if you can find anyone to do it.
RogerIvy & nigelivy work is very good I would talk to Off Gridd again you won't regret a trip south.

 

[oldiesontour]

To give you an idea of actual cost I have 640ah lipo ( heated/Bluetooth 640w solar ,50a b2b,/Mppt,100a 240v charger( never been used),2000w pass through inverter,240v fridge freezer( with separate dedicated inverter 2000w)single induction hob, microwave,oven type air fryer, Bluetooth shunt meter.(200 w folding solar..never used)..in my boxer pvc.
Never been on hook up,never had a fault.
All of the above can be done for less than £2k.(.feel free to PM)

 

[oldiesontour]

Should of also said underslung LPG circa £400,

 

[Matt_Bask]

i'm not really familiar with UK LPG availability etc. Just seems you are maybe actually comparing cooking vs no cooking unless you figure out what's the option. So gas hob, tank, piping, installation maybe?

You write of northern UK, that also means winter use will require more thought, like here in Finland. Many want the gas hob because offgrid use without solar doesnt then require so much battery.
The usual suggestion is a little excel exercise (there are online calculators as well) of estimating your average daily consumption. Multiply by days you desire to be offgrid and you have your worst case (winter) no charging scenario for battery capacity. Then add chargers (solar, b2b, mains) to taste.
Run the numbers both for with induction and with gas cooking, then you get a better idea of the required setup and cost for each.

On general level the ballpark quotes you were given sound realistic to me.

Thank you for taking the time to reply will have a look around

 

[Matt_Bask]

Have you checked out local colleges which train auto-sparks etc? It may be similar for this project as it was for me when I wanted some wood-working done. They sometimes need real world projects so their trainees can learn.

Before doing anything, I suggest you make a list of all electrical equipment you'll have in your vehicle. Kettle, fridge, microwave etc.

Then check their labels to get their maximum power consumption in kW.

1. For each appliance, multiply that value by the portion of hours per day that it may be used for.
Eg. A 2000W (2kW) kettle used for 8mins (0.12hrs), 5 times daily (0.6hr total) would be
2000 x 0.6 = 1200W

Add up those values for each appliance on the 230V side, to establish your max total daily power requirement. Add 10% to the requirement, to cover inefficiencies in the system and, to power the system components, eg inverter.

2. Separately, using some of those totals; add up the consumption of the items that may be used at the same time. Eg, you might be heating water whilst you cook a meal whilst your OH is using the hair dryer. Adding up the peak concurrent power consumption should give you the max to be produced through the inverter.

#1 this value will confirm how much electricity you need to generate per day, via solar, alternator or generator.

#2 that will show what size inverter you'll need.

Come back when you've worked out those values and I'll post a wiring diagram (photos of components and how they connect to others, rather than a technical wiring diagram) and it should (I hope) make things more clear.

Components you'll need include:-
Solar panels
Solar charge controller (mppt)
LiFePo4 battery bank
Battery charge monitor (aka shunt)
EHU socket (side of van) and cable to inverter/charger (a Multiplus, if using Victron)
Inverter/charger (multiplus)
DC-DC charger to take power from starter battery to leisure battery bank, when engine running
Two consumer units each to hold 1 double pole RCBO and then, for each appliance fed from it, 1 MCB.
You may also need busbars (junction bars) or distribution boxes (same purpose as busbar)
Then you'll need fusebox for 12V system.
You should also have two isolator switches, one on input from solar and one on input from EHU.

ht

Have you checked out local colleges which train auto-sparks etc? It may be similar for this project as it was for me when I wanted some wood-working done. They sometimes need real world projects so their trainees can learn.

Before doing anything, I suggest you make a list of all electrical equipment you'll have in your vehicle. Kettle, fridge, microwave etc.

Then check their labels to get their maximum power consumption in kW.

1. For each appliance, multiply that value by the portion of hours per day that it may be used for.
Eg. A 2000W (2kW) kettle used for 8mins (0.12hrs), 5 times daily (0.6hr total) would be
2000 x 0.6 = 1200W

Add up those values for each appliance on the 230V side, to establish your max total daily power requirement. Add 10% to the requirement, to cover inefficiencies in the system and, to power the system components, eg inverter.

2. Separately, using some of those totals; add up the consumption of the items that may be used at the same time. Eg, you might be heating water whilst you cook a meal whilst your OH is using the hair dryer. Adding up the peak concurrent power consumption should give you the max to be produced through the inverter.

#1 this value will confirm how much electricity you need to generate per day, via solar, alternator or generator.

#2 that will show what size inverter you'll need.

Come back when you've worked out those values and I'll post a wiring diagram (photos of components and how they connect to others, rather than a technical wiring diagram) and it should (I hope) make things more clear.

Components you'll need include:-
Solar panels
Solar charge controller (mppt)
LiFePo4 battery bank
Battery charge monitor (aka shunt)
EHU socket (side of van) and cable to inverter/charger (a Multiplus, if using Victron)
Inverter/charger (multiplus)
DC-DC charger to take power from starter battery to leisure battery bank, when engine running
Two consumer units each to hold 1 double pole RCBO and then, for each appliance fed from it, 1 MCB.
You may also need busbars (junction bars) or distribution boxes (same purpose as busbar)
Then you'll need fusebox for 12V system.
You should also have two isolator switches, one on input from solar and one on input from EHU.

hth

Thanks mate will sit down and have a look

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[Matt_Bask]

To give you an idea of actual cost I have 640ah lipo ( heated/Bluetooth 640w solar ,50a b2b,/Mppt,100a 240v charger( never been used),2000w pass through inverter,240v fridge freezer( with separate dedicated inverter 2000w)single induction hob, microwave,oven type air fryer, Bluetooth shunt meter.(200 w folding solar..never used)..in my boxer pvc.
Never been on hook up,never had a fault.
All of the above can be done for less than £2k.(.feel free to PM)

Thanks mate will send a PM