Dartmoor proposes new byelaws to ban overnight parking in motorhomes.

[ManTheVan]

Dartmoor camping and barbecue bans proposed

Byelaws to protect wildlife, habitats, cultural heritage, archaeology, and the livestock that graze the commons are to be changed

www.devonlive.com

 

[GJH]

Far wider proposals than just banning "overnight parking in motorhomes" and an inevitable consequence of abuse of the area.

 

[63720]

We were turfed off there years ago by a warden who said no overnight sleeping so not going back anytime soon, just surprised it's come up again now.

 

[DBK]

You can't wild camp on Dartmoor in a MH now. What you are allowed to do is camp in a tent if it is not in sight of a road. This is what they are proposing to ban but only in certain popular areas I think.

 

[GJH]

just surprised it's come up again now.

Dartmoor NPA has had ongoing problems with people lighting fires and camping, some of whom are less compliant than yourself when told that you can't camp there.
We can expect the same in other national parks &c.

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[Marmanlady]

OK so we were in a car park close to The Warren House Inn, private security firm turned up working on behalf of whomever & very politely gave us a brochure which had the "rules" in. It was then up to us to stay or leave however if we stayed they said if spotted again we could end up on a national database & if we became frequent abusers of overnight stopovers then we could be fined. The rules for wildcamping in a tent for 2/3 nights was acceptable, no mention of being "in site" of a road.
We simply drove off the moor boundary & came back the next morning.
There were a number of MH's & PVC's that had obviously been there overnight in the same car park we had been in.

 

[Essgeebee]

I’ve no experience of motorhoming abroad and quite limited experience in the UK. However, it seems to me the continentals embrace RV tourism and facilities for semi-wild (not on a dedicated site) style pitching are widely available - Aires and the like. Meanwhile, in the UK, options keep being closed off with the Dartmoor by-laws seemingly the next layer of difficulty. I know some people abuse the privilege but many don’t and yet we suffer too. They key point is that if something is totally free, it will be abused because it isn’t valued (by some). Perhaps a part of the solution is to develop dedicated locations like lay-bys and isolated ‘wild camping’ spots usable only with a subscription. The technology exists to make that workable. Wonder if there could be the political will.

 

[ManTheVan]

You can't wild camp on Dartmoor in a MH now. What you are allowed to do is camp in a tent if it is not in sight of a road. This is what they are proposing to ban but only in certain popular areas I think.

Quite true, although I can’t see any rationale for choosing some of the areas listed for tent-camping.

This is the bit that I was talking about:

PARKING

· Between the hours of 9.00pm and 9.00am no person shall occupy or sleep in any mechanically propelled vehicle, caravan or trailer parked on Access Land.

There have been garish, unfriendly yellow signs up all this year telling visitors that overnight sleeping is not permitted, so I’m not entirely sure what this new proposed bye law would change. It’s just so short-sighted that they would not even consider a Trossachs-like scheme where self-contained Motorhomes are permitted to park and sleep overnight in designated areas, for two nights maximum, for a small fee. Honestly, what possible harm could there be in exploring this idea? Those without the permit can be asked to move or be fined. Those with the permit will have been checked to ensure that they are fully self-contained and can stay.

The proposed byelaws are going to consultation later this month and it would be excellent if responsible MH owners, such as found here on the forum, would suggest the idea.

 

[phase3begins]

I’ve no experience of motorhoming abroad and quite limited experience in the UK. However, it seems to me the continentals embrace RV tourism and facilities for semi-wild (not on a dedicated site) style pitching are widely available - Aires and the like. Meanwhile, in the UK, options keep being closed off with the Dartmoor by-laws seemingly the next layer of difficulty. I know some people abuse the privilege but many don’t and yet we suffer too. They key point is that if something is totally free, it will be abused because it isn’t valued (by some). Perhaps a part of the solution is to develop dedicated locations like lay-bys and isolated ‘wild camping’ spots usable only with a subscription. The technology exists to make that workable. Wonder if there could be the political will.

Aren't dedicated locations usable only with a subscription what is known as campsites?

 

[ManTheVan]

Here’s the Trossachs scheme…

Get a permit | Camping

Camping Management Byelaws are in place in Loch Lomond & The Trossachs National Park from March to September. Get your permit here.

www.lochlomond-trossachs.org

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[Essgeebee]

Aren't dedicated locations usable only with a subscription what is known as campsites?

I look forward to more considered comments.

 

[GJH]

I’ve no experience of motorhoming abroad and quite limited experience in the UK. However, it seems to me the continentals embrace RV tourism and facilities for semi-wild (not on a dedicated site) style pitching are widely available - Aires and the like. Meanwhile, in the UK, options keep being closed off with the Dartmoor by-laws seemingly the next layer of difficulty. I know some people abuse the privilege but many don’t and yet we suffer too. They key point is that if something is totally free, it will be abused because it isn’t valued (by some). Perhaps a part of the solution is to develop dedicated locations like lay-bys and isolated ‘wild camping’ spots usable only with a subscription. The technology exists to make that workable. Wonder if there could be the political will.

Aren't dedicated locations usable only with a subscription what is known as campsites?

I look forward to more considered comments.

Having studied the problem for many years, including helped promote (with varied success) the use of "off site" areas for motorhome camping, I don't consider the comment by phase3begins to be ill-considered because (whilst it may be a little flippant) it reflects the facts in the UK.
Search through past threads and you will see that the question has been discussed many times.

As far as lay-bys go there is no national legislation preventing camping in lay-bys (which are subject to highways legislation) though if the camping becomes prolonged, councils can take action under the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994 Sections 77 & 78.
As regards off road spots, the situation differs because they are subject to the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. Whilst there is an exemption for local authorities which are also licensing authorities (district and unitary councils usually) that does not extend to bodies such as national park authorities such as Dartmoor.
The other major factor (which influences political will) is cost v benefits. There is no "one size fits all" approach which will work so each location has to be treated on its merits. The costs and benefits (social as well as monetary) are not always obvious to the lay person.

Having said that, if you do know of a particular site (or sites) for which you think you can make a case then please contact the local authority in which the site is located to see if you can open negotiations regarding provision.

 

[ManTheVan]

Having studied the problem for many years, including helped promote (with varied success) the use of "off site" areas for motorhome camping, I don't consider the comment by phase3begins to be ill-considered because (whilst it may be a little flippant) it reflects the facts in the UK.
Search through past threads and you will see that the question has been discussed many times.

As far as lay-bys go there is no national legislation preventing camping in lay-bys (which are subject to highways legislation) though if the camping becomes prolonged, councils can take action under the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994 Sections 77 & 78.
As regards off road spots, the situation differs because they are subject to the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. Whilst there is an exemption for local authorities which are also licensing authorities (district and unitary councils usually) that does not extend to bodies such as national park authorities such as Dartmoor.
The other major factor (which influences political will) is cost v benefits. There is no "one size fits all" approach which will work so each location has to be treated on its merits. The costs and benefits (social as well as monetary) are not always obvious to the lay person.

Having said that, if you do know of a particular site (or sites) for which you think you can make a case then please contact the local authority in which the site is located to see if you can open negotiations regarding provision.

Great reply, as always.