carthago tv not working or possibly cab battery going duff

Scout

Scout

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My alphatronics 32” sd-cr tv didn’t work during my pre journey check yesterday,

Media unit is on, but the voltage is showing only 9.5 volt ? at the tv plug

Knowing the tv is probably wired to the cab battery as standard? As it is on Carthago’s I was concerned about the cab battery despite the reading on the top display showing 13.2 volt, also the same on my telemetrics app

The cab battey is showing 12.7 volt at rest, but 13.2 volt on charge (mains +solar yesterday )

I charged the batteries overnight and the they were showing cab 13.2v hab 13.7v this morning

I checked the power at the tv plug which was 13.2 volt.

I plugged in the tv , nothing no power light, I made sure the tv on/off was not sticking, changed the remote batteries .

After removing the tv I rechecked the plug voltage it was showing just 10 volts, but still 13.2v at the top box display.

I waited an hour repeated the process and the results were the same, after plunging in the tv, unplugging the volts dropped to 10volt

The van starts first time, on checking the readouts when the engine is running + a bit of solor as its sunny, cab 14.2v hab 14.4v , tv power plug 10v

As the tv has a weird size power jack I can’t try it elsewhere without cutting out the plug from the wiring.

Is the tv duff, have I got a “going bad” cab battery or something else.



Opinions
 
Check the wiring connections on the back of socket.. and on the TV plug.. are not loose or burned

a photo of both would be useful
 
You are obviously loosing voltage some where between the battery and the TV. (Ryan, stating the obvious, I know). The question is why and where? It’s also odd that the TV reads 10v with the cab battery at 12.7, 13.2 or 14.2 volts.

How many of the connections between the two can you get to to test? Can you locate the fuse and check all is well there?
 
Scout said:
Knowing the tv is probably wired to the cab battery as standard? As it is on Carthago’s
Click to expand...
I think my TV's are wired to the leisure battery, whilst the sound comes through the head unit which is wired to the Cab battery, but not at the van so can't double check.

There are various fuses for media and sat / tv and optional tv shown in the manual and located in the DS470 fuse panel.
 
Most Carthago vans Tvs are wired correctly, it is the head unit that often causes power issues.
Have you checked the hard power switch under the unit is "on". Also check the micro switch in the TV lift if yours has a lift as that can fail.
Please advise which van it is as that may focus the issue.

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update

The dealer confirms, the tv is wired to the hab batteries, he asked me to check the fuses on the distribution board, the only one gone was the 2amp bluetooth ? one, which was very hard to find a replacement of these, in the end I went to the dealer. It made no difference at all, I didn't think it would.


The media fuse is definatly ok, checked with a meter for continuity as was all the other fuses just in case

The lift switch seems to be clicking when the roller switch is made, but its very hard to get at,

The van is a 2018 c line chic 2 58xl

The good news is its no way connected to the cab battery so I wont /should not have issues when away which was my main concern for now

the only place I can defiantly meter to is the plug, after that is wrapped in a loom, the other media power to the blue ray and hard drive decoder is ok and matches the hab battery read outs. EDIT: I can try to see if theres continuity between these and the tv power plug, but Ive got a feeling they are separate

20240220_114140.jpg20240220_165919.jpg20240220_165945.jpg20240220_170029.jpg

photos as suggested, no burn marks on either side of plug /socket

Im giving it a rest till tomorrow now,
 
Did you check the power switch under the TV?
Just trying to rule out the obvious stuff first.
Take the seat bolster off (likely to be velcro secured) and you should be able to get to the micro switch. I would bypass it to rule out that possible failure.
Good luck.
 
do you mean the little rocker 1/0 switch , mines on the side of the tv, if so yes, Ive rocked it back and forth just in case it was stuck.

I did look at the seat, do you mean the back rest or the bottom one the top didnt look to give access .

Thanks
 
When I picked up my Carthago I was told that when the engine was not running the radio and the tv were both powered by the hab battery not the engine one. The media switch on the panel switches both on, presumably there is a changeover relay hidden away somewhere obscure. The radio standby power may come from the engine battery and on some radios, in particular Pioneer ones, this can be a fairly hefty drain if they have not been fully powered down. On my Pioneer a quick push of the power button turns the radio off but does not shut it down fully. I have to press and hold the button for a few seconds for it to power off properly after I have used the tv media button.
 
Scout said:
As the tv has a weird size power jack I can’t try it elsewhere without cutting out the plug from the wiring.
Click to expand...
Yes, Hymer fit the same Alphatronics 32" TV. My TV is not working either and I have it in the house at the moment. None of my 12v power supplies will fit the non-standard Alphatronics 12 volt connector. :censored:

Without a proper Freesat Tuner, the Alphatronics TV is rubbish anyway, so I might just cut my losses and buy a 12 volt monitor to use with my trusty 12 volt Freesat HD Set Top box from the old motorhome.

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Scout said:
do you mean the little rocker 1/0 switch , mines on the side of the tv, if so yes, Ive rocked it back and forth just in case it was stuck.

I did look at the seat, do you mean the back rest or the bottom one the top didnt look to give access .

Thanks
Click to expand...
Yes the rocker switch, rhs up is power on.
Back rest comes off and then lift the seat up, I think it tilts on your model but not 100% as some changed in 2018 when they moved the boiler under the fridge.
 
Pausim said:
When I picked up my Carthago I was told that when the engine was not running the radio and the tv were both powered by the hab battery not the engine one. The media switch on the panel switches both on, presumably there is a changeover relay hidden away somewhere obscure. The radio standby power may come from the engine battery and on some radios, in particular Pioneer ones, this can be a fairly hefty drain if they have not been fully powered down. On my Pioneer a quick push of the power button turns the radio off but does not shut it down fully. I have to press and hold the button for a few seconds for it to power off properly after I have used the tv media button.
Click to expand...
Not as clever as a relay. Two feeds to the radio head unit and they have diodes fitted so hab or cab batteries can feed the unit but not the other circuit. Tv is always off hab circuit unless wired wrong. The big issue is the permanent 12v feed to the radio is powered from cab battery... in theory this just keeps the memory function for the radio presets etc.. except when it is "on" it shares the feed for the radio with the switched 12v feed. So with no engine running and listening to the radio in the van the head unit can pull 3 amps from hab battery and the same from the starter battery, hence a flat starter battery if off grid for a while... and obviously the Pioneer units use a lot of power when in standby.. again running off engine battery.
 
Vansflyer said:
Yes the rocker switch, rhs up is power on.
Back rest comes off and then lift the seat up, I think it tilts on your model but not 100% as some changed in 2018 when they moved the boiler under the fridge.
Click to expand...

mines under the wardrobe ,
 
Update:

Yesterday I spent some time investigating, at first I though it had fixed itself as the tv plug was showing 13.45volts the same as the hab batteries, however the tv still didn’t work?

So I did some measuring with known good feeds for the Humax box in the top cabinets.

This showed it was the live that was faulty, not the earth, I then did what I should have in the first place, cut into the loom I fitted 3 pin quick connecters to both live and earth so I could plug in the tv and also a lead to continuously take voltage readings, as soon as the tv was plugged in the voltage dropped below 10volts. I then test the tv with power from the top cabinmate and it worked perfectly. For now I have just put in a temporary feed from there as time is running out before we go away. I will try to source a wiring diagram I think without one its going to be hard to find the problem as the loom is so tightly bound , I need to know the jump / fuse points to test it further back to the source, all the fuses in the rear 12volt distribution box are good, Im not sure if the top feeds and the bottom loom feeds are connected or on totally lines to the fuse box again a diagram would help here

So part fixed for now

If anybody has access to a wiring diagram for a c line or any carthago please give me a shout

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Scout said:
Update:

Yesterday I spent some time investigating, at first I though it had fixed itself as the tv plug was showing 13.45volts the same as the hab batteries, however the tv still didn’t work?

So I did some measuring with known good feeds for the Humax box in the top cabinets.

This showed it was the live that was faulty, not the earth, I then did what I should have in the first place, cut into the loom I fitted 3 pin quick connecters to both live and earth so I could plug in the tv and also a lead to continuously take voltage readings, as soon as the tv was plugged in the voltage dropped below 10volts. I then test the tv with power from the top cabinmate and it worked perfectly. For now I have just put in a temporary feed from there as time is running out before we go away. I will try to source a wiring diagram I think without one its going to be hard to find the problem as the loom is so tightly bound , I need to know the jump / fuse points to test it further back to the source, all the fuses in the rear 12volt distribution box are good, Im not sure if the top feeds and the bottom loom feeds are connected or on totally lines to the fuse box again a diagram would help here

So part fixed for now

If anybody has access to a wiring diagram for a c line or any carthago please give me a shout
Click to expand...
I have a 2016 Highline diagram - never found anything newer online - A friendly dealer might be able to get one for you?
 
AdrianChen said:
I have a 2016 Highline diagram - never found anything newer online - A friendly dealer might be able to get one for you?
Click to expand...

is it usefull or like some a chocolate teacup...
 
Good news on the fault finding especially that the TV is working. I tried pretty hard to get a wiring diagram back in 2019 without success. Behind the control panel above the door on our C-Tourer is a multi connection block that is for the media circuit, that may be a starting point to check continuity as it has several feeds from it. I added a USB power socket in the top cupboard and took the feed from here. If van has been pre wired for a sat system you will also find ... a D+, and a constant 12v feed seperate from the hab circuit. Teleco sat controllers (factory fit options) need a 12v all the time or they don't pass the sat signal when in standby, hence the need for an unswitched 12v feed.
Good luck and please share your findings.
 
will do and thanks for your input

When I spoke to the service electrician he mentioned a 10 amp fuse behind the control panel , but I've yet to find time to investigate ( to busy packing wine)

What has me confused is the voltage is there until a load is put on it , then it drops , I suppose if there is a fuse it could be a bad connection or not seated correctly, or even just a poor connection on the multi connector,

it also seems strange that 12volt feed to the top cupboard that house the sat receiver and other bits is on a different line to the bottom feed for the tv. still that's for another day

I thought the sat feeds and single cables are behind the panel above the fridge behind the alloy shield which has been out at some point as the screw holes are different so it must have been out. ?
 
Phantom voltage is not uncommon and exactly as you think, a poor connection, broken wire etc. Reads until under load and then goes down or off.
When you say the top cupboard houses the Sat receiver and other bits are you referring to a control box for a sat dish or an actual receiver? OEM fit is to put the control box in that cupboard, anything else is aftermarket / dealer fit. Unless you are looking at Intelsat @27.5W the Tv should be able to handle the main Sat stuff. Unless of course you want a PVR which may explain the Humax reference.
If aftermarket fit the only original wiring will be to the TV & maybe sat control dish.
Again OEM fit is for sat cables (feeds and control) to come in over the fridge and connect power and control behind control panel.. Carthago fit a patch cable in to make life easier as fishing new cables is tricky. Having said all of that Carthago have been know to throw the rule book out and "wire at will" at times. Our van has several redundant cables between head unit and TV, I questioned the German tech bods at the show one year and they couldn't explain the use case. I offered to draw them a wiring diagram which they could use on every van for a $1 license fee per vehicle... they went very quiet at that point 🤣🤣

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Worth changing the TV feed fuse in the CBE distribution unit, I've known blade fuses go high resistance.
 
Vansflyer said:
Phantom voltage is not uncommon and exactly as you think, a poor connection, broken wire etc. Reads until under load and then goes down or off.
When you say the top cupboard houses the Sat receiver and other bits are you referring to a control box for a sat dish or an actual receiver? OEM fit is to put the control box in that cupboard, anything else is aftermarket / dealer fit. Unless you are looking at Intelsat @27.5W the Tv should be able to handle the main Sat stuff. Unless of course you want a PVR which may explain the Humax reference.
If aftermarket fit the only original wiring will be to the TV & maybe sat control dish.
Again OEM fit is for sat cables (feeds and control) to come in over the fridge and connect power and control behind control panel.. Carthago fit a patch cable in to make life easier as fishing new cables is tricky. Having said all of that Carthago have been know to throw the rule book out and "wire at will" at times. Our van has several redundant cables between head unit and TV, I questioned the German tech bods at the show one year and they couldn't explain the use case. I offered to draw them a wiring diagram which they could use on every van for a $1 license fee per vehicle... they went very quiet at that point 🤣🤣
Click to expand...

thats interesting, I did have a chat today with the dealers sparky, as I had to drop in to book a service, he say he's never come across it before, and said they would probably just cut the feed behind the control panel and drop a new live feed down, unless it was something simple like the fuse on the relay or even the relay itself. Im going to investigate more tomorrow, I will change the blade fuse on the destitution panel first just in case even though I did check its continuity, I really should have swapped it then.

My top cupboard houses ( door side) the oyster hd receiver and control box combo on the top shelf retro fitted by pre owner which might have been the suppling dealer, the bottom shelf houses a blue ray player this only likes pure 12 volt, so Ive got a dc to dc controller 10> 20 volts in 12volt stabilized out. plus a 3 way hdmi switch. Drivers side houses the humax PVR which is good for recording stuff like F1, but since they changed freesat footprint wont pick up some hd channels like channel 3. and a few blue rays /dvd/s . That daft thing is with all that tech we dont watch that much tv.
 
I doubt it is the relay if the media circuit works otherwise as I think only one relay for all the media. Does the Oyster, Blue Ray and PVR turn off and on with the media button or not? I am trying to ascertain if the media circuit (which should power the TV) is the issue. Aftermarket stuff is wired how the fitter feels on the day but normally the easiest option so they may have picked up a none switched 12v feed, which could be why Humax etc works but TV feed doesn't?
 
The Oyster box seems to be permanent live

Blu Ray & PVR are on the media button circuit, so in theory there should be continuity between the live connecting the BR or PVR to the tv plug?

at the moment Ive just piggy backed into the the double cigarette socket for the PVR, the Blu Ray has its own which is regulated as it needs a more stable voltage.

The reason I considered the relay, as I have worked with multi point relays in the past and have seen one set of points working and the next pair burned and not making contact. Im not sure without looking if the relay is single or multi pin .

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Yep I agree, TV, BR and PVR should all be on the same feed. Could be a multi point relay but I would be surprised if they have gone that far.... or spent that much.
I await the results with anticipation 😁
 
ok its working but dont ask why

I took the top panel down, it wasn't fitted very snug so a wire/wires must have been trapped, but they were not 12 volt wires but the one going to the control panel and the aldi control panel, far too much spare cable ( and difficult to get back correctly )

First impressions were WTF put this lot together, but after getting in with a torch, I could identify the sat cable power , and a separate 12 volt line connector, there are two multi spade connectors, loads of heavy coated cable bunched . But no relay or fuses. so I poked around making sure all the spades were on and pushed all the in line connecters firmly together.

I wasn't too sure what was what as there so little room and too much cable

I fitted a 12volt display to the loom for tv tails and was surprised it was reading the same as the hab battery

I connected the tv the circuit and the volts was stable, so switched on the tv and its working. I can only assume that there was a pinch wire or bad connection but who know which.
Ill leave the 12 volt display connected in situ and the patch lead to hand should it go belly up again, I hate it when you get intermittent faults because you never know when they will return.

Thanks for your help.
 
With those push-on connectors I would that them off and give them a squeeze with a pair of pliers so they are a tight fit
 

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