Bleeding problem: how what when.

[the1andonly]

Now 4 yrs old (x290) so decided to bleed but what and how, in what order .

What :
Brakes
Clutch
ABS System
I have a cheap vacuum pump bleeder and Multiecuscan (runs ABS pump)
So far i have read conflicting stuff relating to order when using multiecuscan.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Why would you need to do this, does it not get done during major service? Or do you do your own servicing ?

 

[Stealaway]

My garage simply measure the water content of the fluids first. They seldom have to change them.

 

[Lenny HB]

My garage simply measure the water content of the fluids first. They seldom have to change them.

The independant I use work like that but last service I got them to change the brake fluid as the van was 4 years old and we do a lot of mountains.
Best 40/50 quid I've ever spent on the van, cured all my traction control & ABS problems completely. Will get the fluid changed at every service in future.

 

[Otter Spotter]

My garage simply measure the water content of the fluids first. They seldom have to change them.

Strange, my independent garage services my van every 13000 miles (my decision) not at 20000 miles as per manual, and they have changed all fluids at the 2nd service At 26000 miles.
If your van has Adblue the system should be flushed as crystals form in the pipe work and can clock said pipes, especially if the van is stood idle for any length of time, (in storage for instance) £7.00 for flush.
I have to admit that I haven’t checked the service manual for fluid replacement intervals, but I think it prudent to replace regularly to keep everything running smoothly.
I would rather spend £45. Every so often on fluids etc than £4000 on a replacement engine.

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[poppycamper]

would rather spend £45. Every so often on fluids etc than £4000 on a replacement engine.

That is my policy with engine oil....gets change EVERY 12 months regardless of mileage.

 

[Steve and Denise]

It’s a funny thing oil it’s been in the ground for millions of years then we put it in an engine don’t use it and need to change it every year

 

[gus-lopez]

pressurised pump not recommended for abs systems I read.
I did mine farthest rear other rear farthest front .nearest front. Abs gets done automatically .Then bled clutch through after.

 

[dunnah01]

Now 4 yrs old (x290) so decided to bleed but what and how, in what order .

What :
Brakes
Clutch
ABS System
I have a cheap vacuum pump bleeder and Multiecuscan (runs ABS pump)
So far i have read conflicting stuff relating to order when using multiecuscan.

Brakes & ABS are the same thing and you should bleed them like most other braking system every couple of years. There should be no need to use MES to bleed the ABS module unless you have got air into the system during bleeding. So just make sure reservoir is always topped up during bleeding. Start with caliper or piston furthest from brake master cylinder.
Clutch - I wouldn't bother unless you're having particular clutch problems. There no heat involved with the clutch actuation so the fluid doesn't get as hot and bothered as the braking system.

 

[Otter Spotter]

It’s a funny thing oil it’s been in the ground for millions of years then we put it in an engine don’t use it and need to change it every year

That’s because it’s being used to protect an engine and not fill a void in some rock

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[chaser]

Brakes & ABS are the same thing and you should bleed them like most other braking system every couple of years. There should be no need to use MES to bleed the ABS module unless you have got air into the system during bleeding. So just make sure reservoir is always topped up during bleeding. Start with caliper or piston furthest from brake master cylinder.
Clutch - I wouldn't bother unless you're having particular clutch problems. There no heat involved with the clutch actuation so the fluid doesn't get as hot and bothered as the braking system.

60 years motoring, never seen a clutch bled unless working on it.

 

[PP Bear]

I’m the same as Chaser and have only bled the clutches I have had to work on. They’re usual fed fluid from the brake master cylinder these days, so gets a % flushed each time we use it. Also, I’d be careful with the bleed nipple end as they’re usually plastic and not very strong, so great care has to be advised if you do attempt it yourself.

While I usually do all my maintenance, I won’t be doing the brake or clutch fluid now, as I no longer have the facilities that I used to have available to me, so it’s the one thing I’ll get done at a service centre.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

 

[Steve and Denise]

That’s because it’s being used to protect an engine and not fill a void in some rock

My point being low mileage 2years no problem it’s not hydroscopic like break fluid not likely to loose any viscosity and not full of carbon deposits due to low miles I’m happy to keep to manufactures recommended intervals

 

[the1andonly]

Thanks for all the interest and info.
I do my own servicing.it is a late16 Ducato engine in a 17 model registered in 18. No ad blu. Not eno33 ugh miles.
I dunk my tool in the brake fluid every year and no failure yet other than a 10 year old fabia. Having read stories about black fluid in 9 yrd old vans i asked myself is now an appropriate time. Lenny HB point about degradation and failure on mountain passes relevent. There are still run off traps on some hills in South wales.
gus-lopez have also read that revearse pressure systems can reverse seals thus buggering them up. My proposed method is a hand pump on the caliper end.
With current engine oil chemistry edit sorry aint finixhed yet
Long periods of waiting (3months) alow for the creation of acidic environments that are detrimental to an ICE ( not created by normal use) thus reccomend an oil change before starting an engine tested for 3 months.

 

[Steve and Denise]

I’ve had many cars and bikes over the years like many on here some never run from year to year but I always tend to at least turn them over every few months as to stop any staining on bearing surfaces, never had any crankshaft failiers in 50years.
But I have seen bearings with marks on the path

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[Otter Spotter]

My point being low mileage 2years no problem it’s not hydroscopic like break fluid not likely to loose any viscosity and not full of carbon deposits due to low miles I’m happy to keep to manufactures recommended intervals

Too techy for me My concern is that manufactures service intervals may be geared to selling the vans to delivery fleets who want low running costs with their vehicles on the road not in a workshop and after 2/3 years the vans are disposed of so initial users don’t give a toss what the condition of the engine is because they are not keeping it.
Van engines are no different to car engines, so why do most car Diesel engines have 12000 miles service periods?

 

[Steve and Denise]

Too techy for me My concern is that manufactures service intervals may be geared to selling the vans to delivery fleets who want low running costs with their vehicles on the road not in a workshop and after 2/3 years the vans are disposed of so initial users don’t give a toss what the condition of the engine is because they are not keeping it.
Van engines are no different to car engines, so why do most car Diesel engines have 12000 miles service periods?

Probably because the sump on a car holds half the amount of oil from memory 3.0ltr Ducato 6ltrs of oil, but an expert will be along soon to tell me if I’m wrong

 

[the1andonly]

I am not an oil Technologist, my simple view
Modern oils for modern engines (this does not apply to A series engines or MGBs) are quite complex and are designed for working engines not Motorhomes sat still for 3-6 months. The synthetic esters used can have acid structures within the chains that degrade with separation (but not if stirred) and form acids that you dont want circulating . The main form of degradation is oxidation of additives (once additives used up it is no longer the oil it was designed to be and offer same properties.)Nitrogen in form of NOx is also involved in degradation. Very High temperatures can be a problem.
Main source of oxygen for oxidation is water in the oil. In winter Condensation is a good source of water for degradation. If the oil is brought up to temperature (greater than 100C) the water is driven out and manageable levels maintained. hence the reccomendation for weekly/ monthly runs. If you don't acid formation accelerates. This doesnt happen with mineral oils and some older additives in the same way. the more you use it you reduce oxidation potential and increase possible contamination loading (soot and combustion products) Hence 6.7l sumps and 20000mile lives (if used).
so in a sentence, use it regularly or if stood for 6 months change oil before starting. If you dont it wont fall apart tommorrow but you are not extending its life.

 

[Roger20]

My point being low mileage 2years no problem it’s not hydroscopic like break fluid not likely to loose any viscosity and not full of carbon deposits due to low miles I’m happy to keep to manufactures recommended intervals

 

[Roger20]

I did brake and clutch fluid a few months ago (2018 X290). I have used a cheap tester which showed less than 1%. The main reason for doing it was that a friend has just spent over £1k changing the clutch because the slave cylinder had failed - the reason being black fluid in the clutch line, presumably from the failed seals. It would seem that in 10 years it had probably never been changed.

It's easy to change fluid in the brake lines but to get at the slave cylinder you need to take the top off the air filter to get access so not hard to imagine this being left. From there, at least on the X290 it's very easy because now its just a turn with finger and thumb to open the valve.

The old Fiat X250 ELearn manual outlines using a simple pressure bleeder at 1 bar max - I used a Seeley but this has a big reservoir so I ended up using a couple of litres just to be sure it didn't run dry while I was doing it.

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[the1andonly]

It's easy to change fluid in the brake lines but to get at the slave cylinder you need to take the top off the air filter to get access so not hard to imagine this being left. From there, at least on the X290 it's very easy because now its just a turn with finger and thumb to open the valve.

Any photos with Lid off, is it any easier with airbox removed?

 

[royandsharont]

Van engines are no different to car engines, so why do most car Diesel engines have 12000 miles service periods?

I’m not mechanically minded but I don’t think you can rely on manufacturers service intervals too literally. I say this because my UK Vauxhall service interval was 12 months or 12k.

When I lived in Spain I discovered that had I bought the same car there the service interval was 20k whenever it arrived. I gather it was down to the UK dealers demanding more frequent service intervals for their income.

I believe many German vehicles are also mileage dependant too both here & in EU but my UK Skoda is still 12 months. I think the service charges are very important to their income as a franchise.

 

[Roger20]

Any photos with Lid off, is it any easier with airbox removed?

No need to remove the whole airbox because there is sufficient room with the lid off and filter removed. It would be quite difficult to remove and replace the large clip on the hose at the bottom.

It's always good practice to put something like Dinitrol or Waxoil on the four screws holding the filter lid when the vehicle is new. There is a lot of water on the top of the engine and these screw heads eventually rust. Once the posidrive heads lose their form its very difficult to get a good solid drive and once they round off they will be very difficult to remove without removing the whole airbox.

 

[Roger20]

Any photos with Lid off, is it any easier with airbox removed?

Picture of the slave cylinder in this thread

X290 clutch bleeding - anyone done it?

I've got a Sealey pressure bleeding kit for the brakes but not sure about the clutch part. A mate has just had to have a new clutch fitted because the slave cylinder had failed - fluid in the pipes was black and had probably never been changed at 9 years old. My slave cylinder looks a bit...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[the1andonly]

It's always good practice to put something like Dinitrol or Waxoil on the four screws holding the filter lid when the vehicle is new. There is a lot of water on the top of the engine and these screw heads eventually rust. Once the posidrive heads lose their form its very difficult to get a good solid drive and once they round off they will be very difficult to remove without removing the whole airbox.

Thanks
I have all ready bought Stainless Torx head replacement screws.
A hard lesson learnt having to remove a rusted corsa fuse box.

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