Battery Monitor

[BertieBonkers]

Hi there, we have a Ducati based Burstner Harmony Lyseo which has a preference to empty its Leisure Battery in one evening. It’s only the standard Varta 95ah but I was expecting better than this off grid. I have seen all the forums about fitting Gel and Lithium and whilst understanding the principles all the technical details pass way over my head. So, firstly is there anyone out there who has fitted an Ammeter to their unit such that they can see what each item draws so that we can fault find and then be more careful? We hardly ever touch the TV, have very few (like two) lights on at a time and yes the heating for the evening but I don’t think this should result in an almost total drain after a trip of 182 miles to the site. Secondly a friend suggested a battery tester off Amazon which is a good idea so does anyone have any recommendations please?
Thanks
Derek

 

[mitzimad]

if you want to find out whats draining it you need a dc clamp mutimeter to measure a wire to each aplliance .How full was the battery before you had the night away? The voltage of the battery should be at least 12.6 with no charging source ,measured an hour after any charging source has been removed and with no load you may have a goosed battery
we had vartas and they were failing after 4 years

 

[Revolvor]

I fitted a Victron SmartShunt to monitor my Leisure Batteries.
Information about the battery can be viewed on a Smartphone. Price Here
This includes, voltage, current being drawn ( or charging current), State of Charge, and time left until battery is at 50% State of Charge - the lowest you should let it get. It can also show the engine battery voltage.

 

[BertieBonkers]

Thank you guys for the fast response much appreciated. The battery had been on EHU for 4 days before we set off so whilst i did not check it i would hope it was well over 12.5v, its showing 13.5v on EHU right now. I will investigate the Clamp-meter as soon as we get home.

I really like the idea of what i have read about the Smart Meter, sounds very similar (but with Bluetooth more state of the art) to what we had on the boat which helped a lot hence thinking the same here, will definitely look at this too.

In many forums i have read about B2B and think this means charging the Leisure Battery off the Starter one, isn’t this a bit risky?

Thanks again

Derek

 

[Lenny HB]

Sounds like you battery has had it, AGM's are not much cop for leisure use.
The Victron BMV 700 series or their Smart Shunt are good battery monitors.

If you can afford it Lithium is the way to go otherwise I would get rid of the AGM and fit a couple of Gels I think your charger will have a setting for Gel.

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[BertieBonkers]

Thanks Lenny trouble is the funds are pretty low after buying the van so need to force the dealer to fix it in the short term and then invest in a proper Monitor first and then Lithium’s as and when I can when I can.

If you are south coast based have you a recommendation for a good all round specialist in Motorhomes who is not a dealer? We are twixt Southampton and Bournemouth so anywhere between there and say Brighton?

Cheers

Derek

 

[autorouter]

In many forums i have read about B2B and think this means charging the Leisure Battery off the Starter one, isn’t this a bit risky?

This is a common misconception. The B2B is indeed connected between the starter battery and the leisure battery. But it won't turn on until it's triggered. And it is only ever triggered when the alternator is charging the starter battery. So in effect the alternator powers the B2B, and also charges the starter battery at the same time if it needs charging. They are called Battery-to-Battery chargers, but are also called DC-DC chargers or DC Boosters.

 

[the1andonly]

<Broken link removed>
A simple battery monitor (coulomb counter) suitable for lead acid. A good budget choice.
I used one prior to moving to lithium. £30 or 100 for the smartshunt.

 

[TheBig1]

Thanks Lenny trouble is the funds are pretty low after buying the van so need to force the dealer to fix it in the short term and then invest in a proper Monitor first and then Lithium’s as and when I can when I can.

If you are south coast based have you a recommendation for a good all round specialist in Motorhomes who is not a dealer? We are twixt Southampton and Bournemouth so anywhere between there and say Brighton?

Cheers

Derek

I do all my own work, but a couple of friends have used caraserve in the Bournemouth area for caravan and motorhome work and been very happy with the service and work done. He is mobile

 

[Stealaway]

My budget choice is a simple voltmeter - connected to the leisure batteries.
I have solar panels and usually we drive for an hour or two a day.
The amount of charging they get is what it is.
In the evenings we watched the TV and the voltage meter.
When it drops to 12.2 volts we turn it of.
Simples

Really nothing else matters and you can adjust as necessary.

More solar?
More batteries?
Less demand?

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[autorouter]

Secondly a friend suggested a battery tester off Amazon which is a good idea so does anyone have any recommendations please?

You might be wasting your money on one of those. A 'battery tester' for testing lead-acid batteries will test how well it works as a starter battery. It applies a sudden high load, similar to a starter motor, and measured how far the voltage drops. It's a good test for a starter battery, but not for a leisure battery, because a leisure battery is designed for much lower loads but much longer time. There isn't really a simple leisure battery tester that will give a quick result like that.

There's two kinds of 'battery monitor'. One is a simple voltmeter, that attaches to the battery positive and negative terminals, measuring voltage but not amps.

That's better than nothing at all, but the better type has a 'shunt', which is connected into the battery negative wire so that all the battery amps flows through it. It will need a connection to the battery positive terminal also. It will measure both amps and volts. There's usually an inbuilt chip that does calculations of power, state of charge and total energy used. The more advanced ones have Bluetooth, and a phone app to show all the details and tracking history on your phone.

 

[BertieBonkers]

Thank you all for the help, much appreciated, really it is. I will do battle with the dealer next week and see what I can manage but unsure of the outcome right now. Depending on that I will work out a full on Lithium set up, I have been very pleased and interested in everyone’s comments and will be considering everything. Just for a laugh i tried to find our Alternator this morning to see if there is any indication of it being a high output device. Could not even see it from up top and not really equipped for going underneath in the muddy field so that will have to wait.

Once again thanks everyone!

Derek

 

[the1andonly]

BertieBonkers looks like your 5 free posts are up time to open the purse/wallet/pocket and join. You know it makes
Scents, no sense, that stinks as a joke.

 

[wp1234]

You might be wasting your money on one of those. A 'battery tester' for testing lead-acid batteries will test how well it works as a starter battery. It applies a sudden high load, similar to a starter motor, and measured how far the voltage drops. It's a good test for a starter battery, but not for a leisure battery, because a leisure battery is designed for much lower loads but much longer time. There isn't really a simple leisure battery tester that will give a quick result like that.

There's two kinds of 'battery monitor'. One is a simple voltmeter, that attaches to the battery positive and negative terminals, measuring voltage but not amps.

That's better than nothing at all, but the better type has a 'shunt', which is connected into the battery negative wire so that all the battery amps flows through it. It will need a connection to the battery positive terminal also. It will measure both amps and volts. There's usually an inbuilt chip that does calculations of power, state of charge and total energy used. The more advanced ones have Bluetooth, and a phone app to show all the details and tracking history on your phone.

Does anyone have a link to this sort of battery monitor and will they work with two batteries ?

 

[Lenny HB]

Does anyone have a link to this sort of battery monitor and will they work with two batteries ?

Batteries in parallel look like a single battery to a battery monitor.
Have a look at the Victron Smart Shunt or the Victron BMV712 both can monitor both leisure & starter battery.

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[autorouter]

Have a look at the Victron Smart Shunt or the Victron BMV712 both can monitor both leisure & starter battery.

Note that the shunt usually goes on the leisure battery negative, to monitor the in/out amps as well as the voltage, so it can give an accurate state of charge percentage. The starter battery 'monitor' is just a voltage reading, not a second shunt/amps meter.

 

[davidroxburgh]

Andy Bottle - highly recommended. He fitted a B2B to add to my new lithium battery last week. He is at Wickham not far from Portsmouth and Southampton. Mobile is 07841 426660.

 

[Revolvor]

Does anyone have a link to this sort of battery monitor and will they work with two batteries ?

Victron SmartShunt - See my post #3 in this thread above. Yes they work with two batteries.

 

[BertieBonkers]

All great info chaps thank you very much. I have learnt so much from all you guys, use Victron products on the boat and very happy with their performance. Christmas sorted methinks!

 

[wp1234]

I fitted a Victron SmartShunt to monitor my Leisure Batteries.
Information about the battery can be viewed on a Smartphone. Price Here
This includes, voltage, current being drawn ( or charging current), State of Charge, and time left until battery is at 50% State of Charge - the lowest you should let it get. It can also show the engine battery voltage.

Hi there,
I’ve just fitted two new Victron 110ah Gels to replace my duff haze batteries and would now like to get something that would help be better monitor what’s going on with them . How do you connect the SmartShunt to monitor the two leisure and engine battery , is it a DIY job or an auto electrician job ?
Also are there any other more ‘budget’ Bluetooth enabled monitors out there that anyone could recommend ?

Thanks in advance .
Wyn

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[Stewart J]

I use two of these one on vehicle other on leisure batteries, Bluetooth range about 50 feet via a free app very impressed (google may find them cheaper)

<Broken link removed>

 

[wp1234]

I use two of these one on vehicle other on leisure batteries, Bluetooth range about 50 feet via a free app very impressed (google may find them cheaper)

<Broken link removed>

Thanks for this .
Being a battery ‘dunce’ do you just connect this to the negative of one battery and positive of the other battery ( I have two leisure connected in parallel .Does it also give you Amps being used and Amhrs left
Thanks

 

[Revolvor]

Hi there,
I’ve just fitted two new Victron 110ah Gels to replace my duff haze batteries and would now like to get something that would help be better monitor what’s going on with them . How do you connect the SmartShunt to monitor the two leisure and engine battery , is it a DIY job or an auto electrician job ?
Also are there any other more ‘budget’ Bluetooth enabled monitors out there that anyone could recommend ?

Thanks in advance .
Wyn

It is a DIY job, depending on the tools you have. There is a need to crimp ring connectors onto thick cable. Having said that, it is possible to buy lengths of cable with ring crimps already fitted. The two leisure batteries need to wired so that they appear as "one", with all negatives going through the Shunt. An additional (thin) wire is needed to the +ve on the engine battery. Only voltage is shown for the engine battery.

The advantage of the SmartShunt over cheaper monitors is that an account is kept of all charging current and current used, to show the resultant SOC.

 

[wp1234]

It is a DIY job, depending on the tools you have. There is a need to crimp ring connectors onto thick cable. Having said that, it is possible to buy lengths of cable with ring crimps already fitted. The two leisure batteries need to wired so that they appear as "one", with all negatives going through the Shunt. An additional (thin) wire is needed to the +ve on the engine battery. Only voltage is shown for the engine battery.

View attachment 558972

The advantage of the SmartShunt over cheaper monitors is that an account is kept of all charging current and current used, to show the resultant SOC.

Thank you for this … this is exactly what I’m looking for

 

[autorouter]

The monitor in Stewart J's link is what I called a 'simple monitor' in post #11. The Victron SmartShunt is a shunt-based monitor, that gives a much more accurate state of charge reading, and is not dependent on the voltage.

How do you connect the SmartShunt to monitor the two leisure and engine battery , is it a DIY job or an auto electrician job ?

Since your two leisure batteries are connected together in parallel, the chargers and loads regard them as one big single battery.

The SmartShunt, like all shunt-based monitors, usually goes in the main battery negative connection, so that all current going into or out of the battery has to pass through the shunt. The shunt has a 'battery' terminal which connects to the battery. Everything else, including the chassis connection, goes on the 'load' terminal. So basically you disconnect the battery negative wire, and insert the shunt.

It's quite an easy DIY job to connect, provided you have the crimp tool for the large tube ring terminals. You need 10mm ring terminals to crimp on the 'loads' wire, and a short length of thick wire to link the shunt to the battery, with suitable crimp ring terminals. If you don't want to buy a crimp tool, maybe you could borrow one for an hour or so. You could take the battery link wire and terminals to a garage, and they would probably crimp it for you, it's only a ten second job. But the load wire needs crimping, and that's probably not so easy to take with you.

There's a thin wire from the leisure battery positive to the SmartShunt, which powers the small electronic circuit and measures the battery voltage.

There's also the possibilty to measure another battery voltage, and that is often used to monitor the starter battery. Note that it doesn't measure the amps going in and out, but that's not usually necessary for a starter battery.

The ring terminals need to be correctly sized for the wire thickness, and also for the ring terminal hole size. For example, 10mm2 wire, 10mm ring.If you can't get them locally they are available online from suppliers like 12VoltPlanet or Altec Automotive.

Edit: I think Revolvor types faster than me.

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[Revolvor]

Thank you for this … this is exactly what I’m looking for

Before I fitted the SmartShunt, I fitted a home-made Negative bus-bar with all negatives going to it, then a single cable from the bus-bar, through the Shunt to the -ve of the battery bank.

 

[Revolvor]

Edit: I think Revolvor types faster than me.

Not so sure about that, but you gave a much more in-depth answer.

 

[St3v3]

Smartshunt is cheap from Jeff at the moment, 107 for 500A

Amazon product ASIN B0856PHNLX

 

[deleted79651]

Before I fitted the SmartShunt, I fitted a home-made Negative bus-bar with all negatives going to it, then a single cable from the bus-bar, through the Shunt to the -ve of the battery bank.

View attachment 558980

Sorry to cross post/cut in, Revolvor; I am having problems after a vehicle battery change and I have a Battery Relay that looks identical to the one in your picture. Mine is labelled Battery Master Rev 3 "21"; is this the VanBitz Battery Master do you know? M/Home is booked in for Tuesday AM investigation and I'm trying to get as much info on the system spec as possible to keep the 'Wonder what this is?' £ kerching financial charging [as distinct from electrical non charging ...] time

Cheers

Steve

 

[Revolvor]

Sorry to cross post/cut in, Revolvor; I am having problems after a vehicle battery change and I have a Battery Relay that looks identical to the one in your picture. Mine is labelled Battery Master Rev 3 "21"; is this the VanBitz Battery Master do you know? M/Home is booked in for Tuesday AM investigation and I'm trying to get as much info on the system spec as possible to keep the 'Wonder what this is?' £ kerching financial charging [as distinct from electrical non charging ...] time

Cheers

Steve

Mine is a genuine Vanbitz one. I'm afraid I can't check for the label, as it's secured with double sided tape, but I don't think any others look the same.
eddievanbitz could confirm.

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