Axle weights.

[robnchris]

I know we have discussed this subject many times, anyway yesterday I had the motorhome weighed with these results.

Front axle 1240kg
Rear axle 2040kg

That was just the motorhome no one in it, less than half a tank of fuel, no water, clothes, threre is a few things in it. awning, chairs over the cab plus a groundsheet.

Now then on the plate inside the door it reads in a column
3500kg
6300kg

1 - 1750kg
2 - 2240kg

I take that 1 & 2 are the maximum weights of each axle, haven`t a clue what the 6300kg is.
Also can`t see if physically possible to load the front axle with 500kg.

All in all I figure we can only carry an extra 220kg which wouldn`t take much effort as we reckon we weigh a combined 150kg, then you have whatever water and fuel you are carring, not to mention the motorbike and rack....
Don`t know if or how much grace is given.

Looks like we need to travel light, Chris won`t be impressed her shoe collection will probably take us well over.

 

[hilldweller]

Sounds like you are well stuffed if it's a 3.5 tonne vehicle. What does the V5 say ?

At a rough guess a 100kg bike on the back will put 200kg on the axle - best do the sums *now*.

Is the 6.3t the train weight when towing ???

 

[JayDee]

I know we have discussed this subject many times, anyway yesterday I had the motorhome weighed with these results.

Front axle 1240kg
Rear axle 2040kg

That was just the motorhome no one in it, less than half a tank of fuel, no water, clothes, threre is a few things in it. awning, chairs over the cab plus a groundsheet.

Now then on the plate inside the door it reads in a column
3500kg
6300kg

1 - 1750kg
2 - 2240kg

I take that 1 & 2 are the maximum weights of each axle, haven`t a clue what the 6300kg is.
Also can`t see if physically possible to load the front axle with 500kg.

All in all I figure we can only carry an extra 220kg which wouldn`t take much effort as we reckon we weigh a combined 150kg, then you have whatever water and fuel you are carring, not to mention the motorbike and rack....
Don`t know if or how much grace is given.

Looks like we need to travel light, Chris won`t be impressed her shoe collection will probably take us well over.

Looks like you've got a bit of a payload problem.
The 3500 will be your max. Gross Weight
The 6300 will be the maximum Gross Train Weight (i.e. the total weight of trailer and van)
Your overall weight will not be and exact sum of the axle weights, but it still means you can only carry about 200 kg of payload.

Seems like you have two options (well three really)
Fit a towbar and lug everything in a trailer
See if you can get the van up-plated to, say, 3800 (SVTech can advise)
Trade the van or go naked (and barefoot )

I know all of these seem a bit drastic, but I would explore option two first. Do you have any limits on your driving license?


John

 

[robnchris]

axle weights

Well yes it is a PLG 3500kg truck so without a doubt the motorbike and rack will take us over.. mmmhhh me thinks we have a dilemmaoh:

I wonder how often a motorhome gets pulled by Vosa, perhaps I can enter every testing station into the GPS and avoid them...:thumb:

 

[hilldweller]

. mmmhhh me thinks we have a dilemmaoh:

Nope, you're stuffed.

Isn't it absolutely ridiculous to turn out a MH with virtually zero payload ( with tanks full for wild camping ). I've seen this commented on before but yours is the first case I've seen with the numbers on screen.

What company fitted a bike rack knowing ( or they should ) that it could never legally carry one ?

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[Taran_Las]

Rob,

Out of interest where did you get your vehicle weighed and the cost if you don't mind saying?

Phil

 

[robnchris]

Rob,

Out of interest where did you get your vehicle weighed and the cost if you don't mind saying?

Phil

A mate of a mate did it for me, wondering now if I would have been better off ignorant of the fact.
As Brian said, thinking about it I would have thought the dealer we bought the Motorhome off would or should have known the payload limit of the truck and informed us that it would go beyond it`s limits to carry a motor bike and rack... oh:

There again with everything else they did relating to motorhome I`m not surprised.:Angry:

 

[daveyboy]

in this scenario perhaps a bike trailer would be the best option:thumb: and with regards to weighing then any public weighbridge will do and they usually charge a fiver.

 

[MikeandCarolyn]

Rob,

Out of interest where did you get your vehicle weighed and the cost if you don't mind saying?

Phil

We had ours weighed at a local quarry-they didn't charge anything

Mike.

 

[Wintonian]

Your overall weight will not be and exact sum of the axle weights.......

Just a small point: The axle weights that he quoted were each measured on a weighbridge so the sum of these two will be the total. Why would they not?

The maximum axle loads given by a manufacturer, on the other hand, will not necessarily aggregate to the maximum total load. This is because of positioning of the load. A load placed at a considerable distance behind the rear axle will increase the rear axle load but reduce the front axle load, for example.

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[JayDee]

Just a small point: The axle weights that he quoted were each measured on a weighbridge so the sum of these two will be the total. Why would they not?

The maximum axle loads given by a manufacturer, on the other hand, will not necessarily aggregate to the maximum total load. This is because of positioning of the load. A load placed at a considerable distance behind the rear axle will increase the rear axle load but reduce the front axle load, for example.

Quite honestly I have no idea. We plonked ours onto the weighbridge at a local feed supplier - full vehicle, front wheels only, rear wheels only. The latter two figures added up to a tad more than the first. I'm sure it will turn out to have something to do with levers and distances of individual weights from the point of contact. Really I suppose I should know from my days of calculating draft trim and stresses from my shipping days in a previous life; but that was quite a few years ago.


John

 

[robnchris]

axle weights

Just wanted to say thanks to John (jaydee) for the info he has passed on to me.
The guys at SVTech have been so helpful, I just need to provided them with the correct info on my truck and they will either ok the uprating on the plate or not. :thumb:

Fingers crossed as I don`t really want to tow a trailer.

 

[Wintonian]

Quite honestly I have no idea. We plonked ours onto the weighbridge at a local feed supplier - full vehicle, front wheels only, rear wheels only.
John

I weighed mine on a weighbridge last weekend, here in France. It was a very long one, and, like your feed supplier's weighbridge, was very long. The cost for each weighing was 2 Euro, and I only had one coin on me. I just weighed the whole rig. It did occur to me that a weighbridge of that length would be almost certain to be inaccurate when weighing something (like a single axle of a motor home) that was placed quite close to one end. Whether a spring balance or a load cell is being used, the mechanism is bound to have a fair amount of friction. This wouldn't matter too much when the thing had 5 or more axles on it, of course. I have no idea where I would find a shorter weighing facility. If only dealers would offer such a service! It would be a simple matter to organise a couple of pads with load cells and a summation unit (or a wide single pad). Then each wheel could be weighed as well as each axle. As a safety service to customers it would be a great idea. Even if they made a charge for it to recover the capital cost.

 

[daveyboy]

dont know if it helps but some of vosa weighbridges at roadside check points only weigh 1 axle at a time.

 

[lebesset]

am intrigued bye the gtw at 6,300 Kg
never had a merc so I could well be wrong , but normally the gtw only exceeds the gvw by 2000 Kg on this class of vehicle
could it be that this is actually a 4,300 Kg mercedes which has been downplated to 3,500Kg for driving licence / speed limit/tolls etc purposes
could have downplated the axles as well ?
one thing looks certain there must have been a heavier version of this chassis even if the axles or tyres were different , I suspect the tyres rather than the axles , probably there are part numbers on the back axle which would tell you

is there such a mercedes chassis ?

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[gogocrosby]

The powers that be both here and on the continent have portable weighing balances, so they can get you anywhere. You should take it for a weigh in full touring trim just to get legal whilst you wait for a plate upgrade.

 

[robnchris]

am intrigued bye the gtw at 6,300 Kg
never had a merc so I could well be wrong , but normally the gtw only exceeds the gvw by 2000 Kg on this class of vehicle
could it be that this is actually a 4,300 Kg mercedes which has been downplated to 3,500Kg for driving licence / speed limit/tolls etc purposes
could have downplated the axles as well ?
one thing looks certain there must have been a heavier version of this chassis even if the axles or tyres were different , I suspect the tyres rather than the axles , probably there are part numbers on the back axle which would tell you

is there such a mercedes chassis ?

I don`t think it has been downplated as the vehicle plate is an orignal Mercedes plate but I will check on the 6300kg with the SVtech people, the guy I spoke to didn`t have a problem when we dicussed the current plate figures.

 

[JayDee]

I don`t think it has been downplated as the vehicle plate is an orignal Mercedes plate but I will check on the 6300kg with the SVtech people, the guy I spoke to didn`t have a problem when we dicussed the current plate figures.

Rob,
I think Lebesset means that the converter downrated the vehicle as there are issues with the heavier vehicle as we discussed in our PMs, plus Driving Licence limitations for many people. Of course I could be well off track with that.oh:


John

 

[lebesset]

exactly so jay , happens all over europe
the converter orders the vehicle downrated with smaller wheels and tyres , so gets it cheaper
it used to be mainly driving licences that caused this , but with the increasing number of restrictions everywhere for vehicles over 3.5 tonnes many people are risking the overloading fines , in france now if you are up to 5% overloaded it is just an on the spot fine , even people with hgv licences are doing it
met someone this winter , cost him €21 to pass use the millau viaduct because he was over 3.5 , I though €9 was enough !
for the moment the french gendarmerie are fairly relaxed about the new 80KM/hr speed limit /stickers etc , but you have been warned ..it will come

 

[tiggs]

axle weights

Hi we had our motorhome weighed last friday full tank fuel everything in except our clothes enough water to work the loo and husband at the wheel, we guessed before we went that it was between 3200-3300 (max is 3500) we paid our £5 and drove on and it weighed 2950 we were well pleased and very glad we got up enough courage to have it done (it has worried us for some time) now we can take almost anything we want within reason to France and enjoy tc Gerri :thumb:

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[robnchris]

axle weights

exactly so jay , happens all over europe
the converter orders the vehicle downrated with smaller wheels and tyres , so gets it cheaper
it used to be mainly driving licences that caused this , but with the increasing number of restrictions everywhere for vehicles over 3.5 tonnes many people are risking the overloading fines , in france now if you are up to 5% overloaded it is just an on the spot fine , even people with hgv licences are doing it
met someone this winter , cost him €21 to pass use the millau viaduct because he was over 3.5 , I though €9 was enough !
for the moment the french gendarmerie are fairly relaxed about the new 80KM/hr speed limit /stickers etc , but you have been warned ..it will come

Ahh I see what you mean, that`s another question I will be asking, though I did notice that my wheels are bigger than some "A" classes based on the Merc Sprinter chassis.
There`s a lot more to this than meets the eye...

 

[lebesset]

frankly , what autotrail have done is disgusting , they have produced a vehicle that , in practical terms , is unusable ...unless ,of course , someone has put 300Kg of extras on since the vehicle was built

I don't know what year it is , but frankly I would be taking this up with them , not fit for purpose ; they are not alone in doing this sort of thing though!


I have little doubt that this is upgradeable , but do you have the driving licence and what tyre size do you have , could be a new/tyre and wheel job to get the upgrade ...and why should you have to pay SVtech £200 for a piece of paper and a sticker anyway

 

[JeanLuc]

I have just done a search for the Cheyenne 634 and it appears they were built on a 313/316 chassis (same as my Hymer). The difference between 313 and 316 is the engine size / power: the Max Auth Mass is the same for each version. Standard MAM is 3,800 kg so yours has been down-plated (presumably by Autotrail at the request of the first purchaser, although I have seen a standard Cheyenne spec. showing 3,800 kg).

The 313/316 has larger wheels than the heavier 416 or 616 chassis that is used for many larger A-classes. Both these heavier chassis have twin wheels at the rear whereas the 313/316 has single wheels. I believe the smaller wheels are used because the assumption is that heavier trucks will require lower gearing when fully loaded. Remember the original 416 / 616 Sprinters were designed for tipper trucks, small coaches etc.

Philip

 

[lebesset]

with twin rear wheels you wouldn't need such big ones...you have 6 tyres to carry the weight .... front axle overloading is never a problem so smaller front tyres is not a problem...have a look at this vehicle , 500Kg to spare !

final drive ratios will be different to reflect the tyre size

even with an upgrade you won't get a scooter on the back , nothing to spare there

 

[lebesset]

what's the load index of the tyres , will be marked something like 109/107

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[robnchris]

axle weights

what's the load index of the tyres , will be marked something like 109/107

Hi, tyres are 225/70R-15-C 112/110R.

I have filled the form in for the SVTech guys so am now just waiting for their decision on which way to go.

As you say and if it`s correct it is bloody pain that Auto-Trail would downplate a vehicle, mind you it`s something that i didn`t even know about when we bought the motorhome.
Having said that you would have thought the dearlership would have advised about payloads when they fitted the motorbike rack...Grrr

 

[JeanLuc]

Those are the same tyres as fitted to my Hymer. MAM is 3,800 kg.

Philip

 

[lebesset]

well , it's axle weights not vehicle weight that counts for tyres

you are only tyred for 2240 Kg per axle in single formation

normally axles have a code somewhere , worth checking in case it is more highly rated than currently granted on the plate ; then a wheel/tyre upgrade would be possible , but unlikely .. and terribly expensive even if the correct wheels are available

anyhow , now you understand why so many people buy FWD motorhomes ,especially fiat , much better carrying capacity at the rear although personally now I have a 2.8 fiat I would not change despite my early misgivings ; keep off the wet grass though !

I hate to say this , but how long have you had this vehicle ? personally I would be considering going and asking for my money back , they clearly knew what you wanted to do if they fitted the bike rack ! even with an upgrade to 3.8 or 4 tonnes the problem of axle weights won't go away ? how are you going to get all the weight at the front ?

 

[robnchris]

well , it's axle weights not vehicle weight that counts for tyres

you are only tyred for 2240 Kg per axle in single formation

normally axles have a code somewhere , worth checking in case it is more highly rated than currently granted on the plate ; then a wheel/tyre upgrade would be possible , but unlikely .. and terribly expensive even if the correct wheels are available

anyhow , now you understand why so many people buy FWD motorhomes ,especially fiat , much better carrying capacity at the rear although personally now I have a 2.8 fiat I would not change despite my early misgivings ; keep off the wet grass though !

I hate to say this , but how long have you had this vehicle ? personally I would be considering going and asking for my money back , they clearly knew what you wanted to do if they fitted the bike rack ! even with an upgrade to 3.8 or 4 tonnes the problem of axle weights won't go away ? how are you going to get all the weight at the front ?

Bought the motor home last October and have to say the dealership were just about useless in the aftersales bit.
Jobs that needed doing were done to a poor quality, in the end we thought well we have the motor home we wanted and we won`t be going back there, or recommending them to anyone.
Wrote two letters one to the CEO and one to the Managing Director, so far haven`t had a reply.

We actually choose this motor home because we liked the interior layout, it was in excellent condition and I only wanted one with an auto gear box.
The other thing about it being rear wheel drive is it has a much better turning circle than a FWD, the wheel-lock is quite amazing you can park in places some peple are struggling to park a large family saloon.
Never thought about payload implications, rather naively like most you see a big truck with loads of places to store things and think you can carry a fair amount of stuff in it.
We had made our own mark on it, adding Air Suspension, Solar panels and a roof mounted satellite System.
It is annoying if we end up not being able to carry the motor bike but not the end of the world.

 

[lebesset]

ah well , with the upgrade you should be able to allow your wife 4 pairs of shoes like mine gets

maybe she can travel in the luton

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