Almost failed cambelt.

Baggydave

Baggydave

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2002 Eura mobile
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Can I please ask the knowledgeable members on here for some advice. Apologies for the long post.
Five months ago I took my van to a local motorhome garage to have the cambelt & water pump replaced.
It’s a fiat ducato 2.8idtd, 2001.
Two weeks ago the van overheated while it was having its mot at my usual garage & they had to stop the test.
I got the breakdown guys & they took it back to the garage that replaced the cam belt/water pump.
Turns out that an auxiliary belt had shredded. Probably the one driving the water pump? Luckily the cam belt didn’t do the same. They appear to be all together within in the same casing.
Now the garage is saying that as I didn’t specifically ask for the auxiliary belts to be changed they didn’t. They put the old belts back on. New ones appear to about £15 each.

It’s down to me to fork out another £750 for the repairs.

Now I’m not a mechanic but I do do my own servicing & oil changes etc. Always have done. But I draw the line on cam belts. I’d rather take it to a professional. My usual garage can’t do it as the vans too big.

This is the first time I’d had this vans cambelt done so I was not aware of any auxiliary belts nor did the garage mention them. If they had, naturally I would have had them replaced.
They did ask if I wanted the crankshaft oil seal replaced & a new tensioner. Of course I said yes.

Opinions please. I’m not a happy bunny.
 
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Baggydave said:
Can I please ask the knowledgeable members on here for some advice. Apologies for the long post.
Five months ago I took my van to a local motorhome garage to have the cambelt & water pump replaced.
It’s a fiat ducato 2.8idtd, 2001.
Two weeks ago the van overheated while it was having its mot at my usual garage & they had to stop the test.
I got the breakdown guys & they took it back to the garage that replaced the cam belt/water pump.
Turns out that an auxiliary belt had shredded. Probably the one driving the water pump? Luckily the cam belt didn’t do the same. They appear to be all together within in the same casing.
Now the garage is saying that as I didn’t specifically ask for the auxiliary belts to be changed they didn’t. They put the old belts back on. New ones appear to about £15 each.

It’s down to me to fork out another £750 for the repairs.

Now I’m not a mechanic but I do do my own servicing & oil changes etc. Always have done. But I draw the line on cam belts. I’d rather take it to a professional. My usual garage can’t do it as the vans too big.

This is the first time I’d had this vans cambelt done so I was not aware of any auxiliary belts nor did the garage mention them. If they had, naturally I would have had them replaced.
They did ask if I wanted the crankshaft oil seal replaced & a new tensioner. Of course I said yes.

Opinions please. I’m not a happy bunny.
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I’ve never heard of a garage putting the old auxiliary belts back on unless they’re brand new it’s a false economy. Most just cut them off anyway when doing a cam belt change. Are you sure they actually did change the cam belt
 
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I would expect a decent garage to ask if you wanted it done at the time!

As you have pointed out the auxiliary belts are cheap and they have to be removed when doing the cambelt, it just makes sense to do it!

I would push them to reduce the repair bill and put the rest down to experience. 😩
 
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Cowpat said:
I’ve never heard of a garage putting the old auxiliary belts back on unless they’re brand new it’s a false economy. Most just cut them off anyway when doing a cam belt change. Are you sure they actually did change the cam belt
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Yes they did the cambelt, £1200s worth of cambelt & water pump.
 
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I would think the cambelt drives the water pump, that is why they are usually changed at the same time, so if it is the water pump it's either not been changed or it was a defective one.
If it is the auxiliary belt that has gone why is it costing £700 .
All seems a bit strange.
Have you been driving the van since the belt was changed. If so why did it suddenly overheat during a MOT?
 
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It’s a difficult thing to answer.

Some people, many on here, go on and on about the cost of things, and who is cheapest. If a garage does all the extra bits because “they were in there” this will obviously push the price up. To do the stuff that is directly associated with the cam belt makes sense, but if you are running a separate belt or belts, that can easily be done on its own then it’s less important.

For me I would always renew all the belts (three on my engine) but then I’m doing it myself.

Some people will just think that the garage are pushing for more money if they suggest other items. I do think they ideally should have suggested it.

Why is the new bill £750?? Isn’t it just fitting a new belt?
 
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chaser said:
I would think the cambelt drives the water pump, that is why they are usually changed at the same time, so if it is the water pump it's either not been changed or it was a defective one.
If it is the auxiliary belt that has gone why is it costing £700 .
All seems a bit strange.
Have you been driving the van since the belt was changed. If so why did it suddenly overheat during a MOT?
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We drove to Spain December & got back march. Van was fine. It had been used the day before & it was ok when I drove to the mot station.
Cambelt just drives the cam/crank & injector pump I think. Aux belts drive water pump, alternator, power steering, air con etc. there are two auxiliary belts apparently.
They replaced all the belts this time.
£54 of the bill was for the mot which it passed ok.
 
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Landy Andy said:
It’s a difficult thing to answer.

Some people, many on here, go on and on about the cost of things, and who is cheapest. If a garage does all the extra bits because “they were in there” this will obviously push the price up. To do the stuff that is directly associated with the cam belt makes sense, but if you are running a separate belt or belts, that can easily be done on its own then it’s less important.

For me I would always renew all the belts (three on my engine) but then I’m doing it myself.

Some people will just think that the garage are pushing for more money if they suggest other items. I do think they ideally should have suggested it.

Why is the new bill £750?? Isn’t it just fitting a new belt?
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All the belts had to be renewed & that’s what they charged.

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Baggydave said:
Yes they did the cambelt, £1200s worth of cambelt & water pump.
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That is a lot for an X244 that is X250/X290 territory, X244 is a lot cheaper to change.
chaser said:
would think the cambelt drives the water pump, that is why they are usually changed at the same time, so if it is the water pump it's either not been changed or it was a defective one.
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X244 water pump is not driven by the cambelt but it is on the X250/X250.
 
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Cowpat said:
Are you sure they actually did change the cam belt
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Baggydave said:
Yes they did the cambelt, £1200s worth of cambelt & water pump.
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I don't want to sound negative here, but is there clear visual evidence, that they were actually changed?
I too would not expect old or worn belts to be refitted after a cambelt and water pump change, unless they were recently new.

Cheers,

Jock. :)
 
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We had the wet cam belt changed on our Ford Ranger. When booking in the mechanic asked if we wanted the others changed at the same time and we said yes. You'd expect a professional to advise you of the options.
 
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JockandRita said:
I don't want to sound negative here, but is there clear visual evidence, that they were actually changed?
I too would not expect old or worn belts to be refitted after a cambelt and water pump change, unless they were recently new.

Cheers,

Jock. :)
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Well to be honest I’ve no way to know if they were or were not changed. It’s all enclosed & it’s why I left it to the “experts”.
As far as I was concerned the cambelt was due at 5 years to have the cambelt done. I had no history of the water pump being replaced so thought it best to get that done too.
I do understand mistakes can happen but really it’s the reaction to those mistakes.

I feel they should have replaced all the belts as a matter of course.
If they had asked me & id said no then on my head be it. They didn’t say a word about them.
 
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Baggydave said:
I feel they should have replaced all the belts as a matter of course.
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I totally agree with you Dave, 100%......unless they were recently new.

Have you got any mechanic friends, who can cast an eye inside the cambelt cover for you?

Cheers,

Jock. :)
 
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They are charging big money for the jobs, in my opinion and I would have expected a much lower price (a deal) on the repairs just carried out.

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gus-lopez said:
As I have said in the past if the belts have to be removed they should automatically be changed. Especially these days with'stretch belts'
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Agreed, but is it a stretch belt on the model of engine quoted?
Also if it is, was the special tool used? More questions than answers.
 
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Landy Andy said:
They are charging big money for the jobs, in my opinion and I would have expected a much lower price (a deal) on the repairs just carried out.
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I tried that but wouldn’t budge. Basically my fault for not specifically asking for aux belts to be done.
I did some due diligence too. Their testimonials from past customers are amazing. It’s not a Micky mouse set up. Lots of high price vans & big workshops. I just don’t understand how they can behave like this.
 
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Baggydave said:
Owned it since 2023. Cambelt was changed just less than 5 years ago.
It was properly due July 26. And I do trust the paperwork.
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So possibly, the existing belts looked just to good to disturb, but only one party would know the answer to that question and you won't have enough evidence now to combat their testimonial, unpalatable as it is voting with your feet is the only avenue left open to you which may cost more !!
Mike.
 
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Lenny HB said:
That is a lot for an X244 that is X250/X290 territory, X244 is a lot cheaper to change.

X244 water pump is not driven by the cambelt but it is on the X250/X250.
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On this engine the water pump is part of the engine mount so it’s more complicated I suppose.
 
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BouncyBoatFolk said:
So possibly, the existing belts looked just to good to disturb, but only one party would know the answer to that question and you won't have enough evidence now to combat their testimonial, unpalatable as it is voting with your feet is the only avenue left open to you which may cost more !!
Mike.
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As far as I know all the belts have to be removed to do the work. So replacing with new should be a no brainier!

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When Adam at A2B in Cheshire did our Cambelt & Water Pump I asked him to do all the Belts for piece of mind 👍
 
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Only ever done one timing belt. On that particular engine .
You have to remove crank case pulley so why they didn’t change the auxiliary belt is beyond me.
Go back and look to see if they have charged you for one
My rule of thumb is if it comes off new replacements are fitted.
Regardless of visual condition especially on stretched belts.
Not professional in my opinion
WB
 
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Baggydave said:
I just don’t understand how they can behave like this.
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Nor I .I would not be using any garage that did not automatically change any belt they had to remove. If they changed the water pump then reused an old belt they would not have a leg to stand on if it had failed. It defies belief that they would not fit a new one just to protect themselves?
Wildbill said:
Only ever done one timing belt. On that particular engine .
You have to remove crank case pulley so why they didn’t change the auxiliary belt is beyond me.
Go back and look to see if they have charged you for one
My rule of thumb is if it comes off new replacements are fitted.
Regardless of visual condition especially on stretched belts.
Not professional in my opinion
WB
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This ^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
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A garage I use has a sign asking about cam belt age/changes before the mot - I’m guessing because the high revs of the test can stress them.
 
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Wow, I always thought the reason the waterpump was changed at the same time is because it was driven by the same belt. Otherwise what's the point?
 
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