E&P auto levelers not extending

[optimus-prime]

So, we arrived last night, leveled the van, went to bed and 2hrs later (about 3 am) the levelers start to retract themselves completely, scaring the….. of me. Went back to sleep after my heart stopped racing, woke up in the morning and the remote controler was not connected to the system anymore. Unplug, wait, plug back the 9 cable connector, remote reconnects to the system, and try to level…. But no luck. Both in manual and auto, the pump works, the jacks (on either side) extend 2cm then the pump stops and retracts back the jacks… searched a bit online and couldn’t find anything similar.

Fuses are fine, pump works, fluid level looks good…. I feel there’s something that could be easily fixed. Since tomorrow is Sunday and everything is closed, I thought maybe someone here had a similar issue?

Thanks

 

[rb62]

Low battery?

 

[DavidG58]

We have had a couple of odd glitches and pulled the large supply fuse, but suspect that must similar to unplugging

But might be worth a go, pull fuse, count to 10 and replace

 

[1967bowesj]

Is there plenty hydronic fluid in the tank?

Is hand brake cable link still working, if it’s broken free the system will think it should retract as the safety

 

[MichaelT]

Fluid?

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[optimus-prime]

Is there plenty hydronic fluid in the tank?

Is hand brake cable link still working, if it’s broken free the system will think it should retract as the safety

The hand brake cable never worked properly. I have a feeling the system was poorly installed. I always operated the system with the engine off, because the installer did not take the time to explain how it works, and I obviously started to use it without reading the manual (although on the main screen of the remote it says to read the manual first). At some point I decided to read the manual which says engine on, hand brake pulled…. But since it worked with the engine off, I didn’t bother. When operating with the engine off it doesn’t know if the hand brake is engaged or not. When operating with the engine on, it says on the screen to pull the hand brake, even if it is or it is not pulled…

I think you may have a point regarding the hand brake cable… I’ll try tomorrow to disconnect it completely (since it anyway acts strange) and try to operate without it.

The tank is 80% full

 

[optimus-prime]

Fluid?

80% full

 

[MichaelT]

The hand brake cable never worked properly. I have a feeling the system was poorly installed. I always operated the system with the engine off, because the installer did not take the time to explain how it works, and I obviously started to use it without reading the manual (although on the main screen of the remote it says to read the manual first). At some point I decided to read the manual which says engine on, hand brake pulled…. But since it worked with the engine off, I didn’t bother. When operating with the engine off it doesn’t know if the hand brake is engaged or not. When operating with the engine on, it says on the screen to pull the hand brake, even if it is or it is not pulled…

I think you may have a point regarding the hand brake cable… I’ll try tomorrow to disconnect it completely (since it anyway acts strange) and try to operate without it.

The tank is 80% full

You shouldn't have engine on!

Pull up tyrn engine OFF handbrake on. Then turn ignition to first position then put levellers down.

 

[1967bowesj]

You shouldn't have engine on!

Pull up tyrn engine OFF handbrake on. Then turn ignition to first position then put levellers down.

Always use ours with engine on, it doesn’t make any difference, just makes sure full voltsvto the heavy pump draw.

 

[1967bowesj]

The hand brake cable never worked properly. I have a feeling the system was poorly installed. I always operated the system with the engine off, because the installer did not take the time to explain how it works, and I obviously started to use it without reading the manual (although on the main screen of the remote it says to read the manual first). At some point I decided to read the manual which says engine on, hand brake pulled…. But since it worked with the engine off, I didn’t bother. When operating with the engine off it doesn’t know if the hand brake is engaged or not. When operating with the engine on, it says on the screen to pull the hand brake, even if it is or it is not pulled…

I think you may have a point regarding the hand brake cable… I’ll try tomorrow to disconnect it completely (since it anyway acts strange) and try to operate without it.

The tank is 80% full

It needs to be connected so it registers contact with negative to make system work, no contact and it thinks that you are trying to drive away so retracts rams.

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[Wee Bold Davy]

We've had E&P self levellers for 7 years without any issues. Unless I've misunderstood the post, I didn't think that it was possible to operate it without running the engine as it draws so much power. Handbrake on, start the engine, switch on the E&P remote then we always use it on manual which is our preference as we find that auto takes the van higher than my wife is comfortable with.
If there's an issue with your handbrake the levellers will retract on their own as it thinks that you are trying to drive off without retracting them. We were told never to use the handbrake to retract the levellers unless it is a dire emergency as it doesn't do the system any good.

 

[Lenny HB]

I didn't think that it was possible to operate it without running the engine as it draws so much power.

I rarely have the engine running when I operate mine.

 

[optimus-prime]

no contact and it thinks that you are trying to drive away so retracts rams

Still thinking this is the right path. The engine on/off/ignition position doesn’t seem to make a difference. Thanks Lenny for confirming I’m not the only one using it with the engine off.

Back to the hand brake / possibly D+ wire. If this cable got interrupted in the middle of the night, it would justify why it retracted by itself. It also explains why it stops extending and then retracts automatically AND it also explains why long time a go when once I dropped by mistake a floor hatch which is next to the pump/control unit, the legs started to retract… I ignored it then, but now I realize it might have been a loose connection somewhere.

Few questions about this cable which has one red and one white wire: is this a standard color coding, does anyone know where each wire comes from? Assuming this is not a BUS connection, does anyone know if I could measure them to detect a fault? And if yes, what should I expect to see?

 

[Land Yachties]

We have a automatic Merc engine with electronic handbrake. To use our E&P levelling system the ignition has to be on. If we start the engine the legs automatically retract.

 

[MichaelT]

We have a automatic Merc engine with electronic handbrake. To use our E&P levelling system the ignition has to be on. If we start the engine the legs automatically retract.

You mean just first position not engine started?

We were told not to have engine on or it will retract.

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[Land Yachties]

You mean just first position not engine started?

We were told not to have engine on or it will retract.

The second position so all the ignition lights are on, engine management lights ect, but not the engine started. If I start the engine the legs automatically retract

 

[funflair]

Engine running or not is purely down to how the system was installed, ours will not run with the engine on but on our last van you could/should have the engine running just to supply enough power, either way though I am sure it needs to see that the handbrake is on.

 

[stewartwebr]

The system will not retract without a command, a loss of pressure would not necessarily see the jacks retract. Only two or three possible options, the remote control, the app or the signal from the handbrake. Given you were asleep at the time it is highly unlikely to be the first two. My betting is the handbrake signal. Appreciate different install methods, but we have never had a system which operates without the engine running.

 

[Lenny HB]

We were told not to have engine on or it will retract.

We were told to have the engine running but that was only because the fitter was paranoid about flattening the battery.

The Jack's only take about 20 amps for a couple of minutes.

Take a worst case of say 20 amps for 10 minutes that is only 3.3 Ah out of your 90 Ah battery & that would only be if the pump was running continuously so likely to be a lot less than that.

 

[MichaelT]

Engine running or not is purely down to how the system was installed, ours will not run with the engine on but on our last van you could/should have the engine running just to supply enough power, either way though I am sure it needs to see that the handbrake is on.

Ours was SAP.

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[funflair]

The system will not retract without a command, a loss of pressure would not necessarily see the jacks retract. Only two or three possible options, the remote control, the app or the signal from the handbrake. Given you were asleep at the time it is highly unlikely to be the first two. My betting is the handbrake signal. Appreciate different install methods, but we have never had a system which operates without the engine running.

Not Morelo factory fit I guess, SAP fit so that the engine needs to be running as far as I know.

 

[MichaelT]

Not Morelo factory fit I guess, SAP fit so that the engine needs to be running as far as I know.

Nope ours was SAP and no engine running.

 

[Nanniemate]

Dodgy teenager who's managed to hack your remote and is playing with you?

Seriously, could your remote be on the same frequency as some else's

 

[funflair]

Nope ours was SAP and no engine running.

Sorry I misread your post but they used to prefer that way I think as the supply was from the starter battery but now with big banks of habitation batteries it is all different and really it can be any way round depending on the fitter and the vehicle.

 

[MichaelT]

Sorry I misread your post but they used to prefer that way I think as the supply was from the starter battery but now with big banks of habitation batteries it is all different and really it can be any way round depending on the fitter and the vehicle.

They said they always use engine battery as they know it's always getting charged so should be full unlike a habitation battery that may go flat but of course you're right that nowadays (us on here anyway) we have bigger and better batteries.

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[Millcourt]

Not Morelo factory fit I guess, SAP fit so that the engine needs to be running as far as I know.

We had SAP fit E&P levellers to our MoHo (3-year old Fiat-based, 9-speed automatic with electronic handbrake) a couple of years ago. It is wired (I think correctly) such that the ignition needs to be on for the remote control to operate, but if the engine is started the rams immediately retract. I presume this is a safety feature to ensure you do not drive away with the rams extended. As far as I am aware, the handbrake cannot be off without the engine running.

 

[funflair]

We had SAP fit E&P levellers to our MoHo (3-year old Fiat-based, 9-speed automatic with electronic handbrake) a couple of years ago. It is wired (I think correctly) such that the ignition needs to be on for the remote control to operate, but if the engine is started the rams immediately retract. I presume this is a safety feature to ensure you do not drive away with the rams extended. As far as I am aware, the handbrake cannot be off without the engine running.

Possibly my information is a bit out dated now, ours was fitted by SAP over 10 years ago, the common denominator though is that the handbrake must be on, the rest seems quite variable.

 

[Mleabon]

We were told to have the engine running but that was only because the fitter was paranoid about flattening the battery.

The Jack's only take about 20 amps for a couple of minutes.

Take a worst case of say 20 amps for 10 minutes that is only 3.3 Ah out of your 90 Ah battery & that would only be if the pump was running continuously so likely to be a lot less than that.

Which battery do they run off? The engine or leisure ?

 

[optimus-prime]

We had SAP fit E&P levellers to our MoHo (3-year old Fiat-based, 9-speed automatic with electronic handbrake) a couple of years ago. It is wired (I think correctly) such that the ignition needs to be on for the remote control to operate, but if the engine is started the rams immediately retract. I presume this is a safety feature to ensure you do not drive away with the rams extended. As far as I am aware, the handbrake cannot be off without the engine running.

I have the same engine/gearbox like you, and it works both with ignition on and off. When the engine is on it automatically retracts, or it used to, when it worked, now it always retracts. In my earlier post when I mentioned the user manual says "engine on" I was wrong due to not being a native english speaker. When quickly translating in my head, ignition on = engine on, but I know the difference, it's just that in my native language we have a completely different word for "ignition on"

Now with the things sorted, it is clear that the system either believes the engine is on, and retracts the rams (new word I learned from you ), or the hand brake is not pulled. But I'm not sure about the latter, as I'm 100% sure that when I was operating it before, with the ignition off, it also worked without the hand brake pulled.

Waiting for the OH to wake up (our bed drops down over the cab) and then I'll go and try to measure this cable. I still don't know what to expect on each of the two wires, still googling it. I'll update later.

 

[kiltandsari]

We were told not to have engine running by installer but Marquis said to run engine. Had an issue with system not working due to not recognising when handbrake was on and eventually the installers replaced the cable to the handbrake as a precaution and worked since.