Fiat Ducato won’t start - help!

[Chopsticks]

Hi!
I’ll try to keep this as short as possible but it’s a long ‘un so apologies!

We have a Fiat Ducato based panel can conversion, 2020 manual which we’ve had from new.
Always serviced by Fiat and low mileage of 8000 miles.

Had no

 

[Chopsticks]

Hi!
I’ll try to keep this as short as possible but it’s a long ‘un so apologies!

We have a Fiat Ducato based panel can conversion, 2020 manual which we’ve had from new.
Always serviced by Fiat and low mileage of 8000 miles.

Had no

Oops sorry - pressed send be accident! I’ll carry on…..

Had no problems at all and got back from our last trip in June.
Van not used during the school holidays and we went to start it first week in September for our next trip.
It turned over fine but wouldn’t fire up.
Called the RAC who plugged in their diagnostics which came up as a fuel pump issue.
Then called a local mechanic who checked everything - fuses, relays all ok and came to the conclusion it’s the fuel pump.
He was trying to source one on return if it wasn’t that but was unable to and given the cost of them we don’t want to fork out that much on the off chance it’s the fuel pump.

Spoke to our local Fiat professional dealer who said they’d be surprised if it was the fuel pump as they’d never had a fuel pump fail just out of the blue - said it would probably fail gradually with performance issues.
Said it was more likely the immobiliser and to book an auto electrician to look at it.

We have an Auto Watch 458RL which I believe is an alarm attached to the Fiat Immobiliser.
Before we call out an auto electrician is there anyone who’s experienced a similar problem?
Have the 5 digit code for the alarm - would it be of use to immobilise the immobiliser to see if it would fire up without this?

I feel like we’re going round in circles with no idea what the problem is - once we know for sure we’re happy to pay for what it takes to get us back on the road!

Thanks for reading!

 

[manners]

The Auto watch like you say is an alarm the immobiliser is Fiat and nothing to do with the Auto Watch. We had the same problem for a few years be it intermittent. We had the cab and fob batterys changed under warranty but didn't fix the issue. When it started to get more frequent, probably every tenth start I checked the antenna that is fitted around the ignition barrel cleaned the cable contacts and it fixed the problem. Its been ok now for about five years.

 

[Chopsticks]

The Auto watch like you say is an alarm the immobiliser is Fiat and nothing to do with the Auto Watch. We had the same problem for a few years be it intermittent. We had the cab and fob batterys changed under warranty but didn't fix the issue. When it started to get more frequent, probably every tenth start I checked the antenna that is fitted around the ignition barrel cleaned the cable contacts and it fixed the problem. Its been ok now for about five years.

Thank you for your reply - we’ll have a look at the antenna.

 

[GeoffnDee]

Is it possible that the the inertia fuel pump cut off switch has been activated and needs resetting ?

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[Landy Andy]

Often the immobiliser is wired to cut the power to the pump. So stopping it starting.

 

[Chopsticks]

Is it possible that the the inertia fuel pump cut off switch has been activated and needs resetting ?

We noticed that it was out but this was after the mechanic had been thumping the tank to see if that would help to dislodge any blockage.
Pushed it back in but made no difference.
We weren’t aware of its existence when this all started ( or rather didn’t start!) so not sure if it was out at the beginning of it all. Good old Googling pointed us in that direction!

 

[Chopsticks]

Often the immobiliser is wired to cut the power to the pump. So stopping it starting.

This is what we’re suspecting - any ideas if overriding the immobiliser would tell us for sure?

 

[manners]

This is what we’re suspecting - any ideas if overriding the immobiliser would tell us for sure?

When I was researching the problem because the immobiliser is part of the canbus even Fiat can't override it.

 

[GeoffnDee]

Has it been confirmed that a power supply is getting to the fuel pump and that the fuel pump ground connections are ok.

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[Chopsticks]

Has it been confirmed that a power supply is getting to the fuel pump and that the fuel pump ground connections are ok.

Fuses and relays to the pump seem to be ok but no noise from the pump

 

[GeoffnDee]

If you remove the pump you should be able to check if it is working ok ( If the pump is the same as earlier X250 Ducato vans there will be 4 connection pins on the top , two are for the pump motor power supply and ground and the other two are for the fuel level sender unit )

 

[manners]

If you remove the pump you should be able to check if it is working ok ( If the pump is the same as earlier X250 Ducato vans there will be 4 connection pins on the top , two are for the pump motor power supply and ground and the other two are for the fuel level sender unit )

Hell of a lot easier to check the immobiliser antenna first.

 

[gloworm]

As it was idle for 2 months is it possible the mice have had a nibble at the wireing ?,

 

[Jev88]

Has it been confirmed that a power supply is getting to the fuel pump and that the fuel pump ground connections are ok.

Pull outlet off ppmif possible and see if Actually moving any fuel?

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[Brains]

I'd also presume it's the immobiliser first.

Switch it on and then off a few times.

We have had an issue with our immobiliser which we switched on on deepest Cornwall.
Two weeks later we switched it off, but the van would not start.

Many calls to the immobiliser company who confirmed the issue was the mobile signal, which was zero to the occasional one bar.
Luckily we had the override disc available, and were able to put it in the correct position to switch off the immobiliser.

Lesson learnt:
Never use the immobiliser in locations with less than 3 bars of mobile signal!

We have also had our immobiliser cut in randomly on ferries
(As the vehicle has moved without the engine, so the immobiliser thinks it's been put on the back of a flat bed and towed off)

Lesson learnt:
Always switch to 'service mode' on ferries, even ferries just across rivers.

We have also had it switch on in fuel stations, particularly in Germany.

 

[Chopsticks]

As it was idle for 2 months is it possible the mice have had a nibble at the wireing ?,

That’s what the RAC diagnostic people said was a possibility but they didn’t look closely.
However the mechanic who came later couldn’t see any signs of it and there was no apparent signs of rodents having been there (such as droppings and bedding)
Am thinking that the next step would be to get an auto electrician to have a closer look.
Thank you for your reply!

 

[B+W vanman]

If you remove the pump you should be able to check if it is working ok ( If the pump is the same as earlier X250 Ducato vans there will be 4 connection pins on the top , two are for the pump motor power supply and ground and the other two are for the fuel level sender unit )

That’s interesting, does the fuel level sender have a role in controlling the pump?

 

[GeoffnDee]

That’s interesting, does the fuel level sender have a role in controlling the pump?

The electric lift pump casing also contains the level sender and float , but it is separate operation from the pump. (X250)

 

[Chopsticks]

I'd also presume it's the immobiliser first.

Switch it on and then off a few times.

We have had an issue with our immobiliser which we switched on on deepest Cornwall.
Two weeks later we switched it off, but the van would not start.

Many calls to the immobiliser company who confirmed the issue was the mobile signal, which was zero to the occasional one bar.
Luckily we had the override disc available, and were able to put it in the correct position to switch off the immobiliser.

Lesson learnt:
Never use the immobiliser in locations with less than 3 bars of mobile signal!

We have also had our immobiliser cut in randomly on ferries
(As the vehicle has moved without the engine, so the immobiliser thinks it's been put on the back of a flat bed and towed off)

Lesson learnt:
Always switch to 'service mode' on ferries, even ferries just across rivers.

We have also had it switch on in fuel stations, particularly in Germany.

I’m not sure how to switch off the immobiliser - we have an Autowatch 458RL which is an alarm that piggybacks onto the Fiat immobiliser ( or so I believe).
Any ideas how to switch that off, please?
Am going to ring Autowatches tech department later to see if they can help.

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[manners]

I’m not sure how to switch off the immobiliser - we have an Autowatch 458RL which is an alarm that piggybacks onto the Fiat immobiliser ( or so I believe).
Any ideas how to switch that off, please?
Am going to ring Autowatches tech department later to see if they can help.

Have you checked the antenna around the ignition barrel like I suggested? It fixed the problem for me. The immobiliser can't be turned off I don't think even Fiat can disable it.

 

[Chopsticks]

Have you checked the antenna around the ignition barrel like I suggested? It fixed the problem for me. The immobiliser can't be turned off I don't think even Fiat can disable it.

How do I go about accessing the antenna, please?
Is it a case of easing off the plastic surround and popping it out?
Not really sure what I’m looking for….
Thanks!

 

[GeoffnDee]

If you find this antenna and it is ok and you also want to check the electric fuel lift pump(including its connections/ output) it is fitted in the top of the tank and can be found under a small removable cover in the cab floor between the front seats , towards the passenger side

 

[Eno]

Suggestion we had for issues like this was to disconnect the vehicle battery. Let everything reset for 24hr. Then reconnect and try again.
Worked for us.

 

[manners]

How do I go about accessing the antenna, please?
Is it a case of easing off the plastic surround and popping it out?
Not really sure what I’m looking for….
Thanks!
View attachment 1120502

It was a few years when I did mine but I definitely took out some screws from under the steering column sorry I can't be more precise.

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[Chopsticks]

Success!
Hubby was fiddling around with the key, trying to open it to change the battery.
Needed to get a screwdriver to prize it off and whilst I looked for one, he tried the key in the ignition and bingo! it started!
What a relief!

Only thing is now we’ll constantly be on edge as we don’t know what caused it in the first place.
Any ideas, my learned Funsters?

 

[MichaelT]

Success!
Hubby was fiddling around with the key, trying to open it to change the battery.
Needed to get a screwdriver to prize it off and whilst I looked for one, he tried the key in the ignition and bingo! it started!
What a relief!

Only thing is now we’ll constantly be on edge as we don’t know what caused it in the first place.
Any ideas, my learned Funsters?

Did you change the battery?

 

[Chopsticks]

It started up before we changed the battery but the batteries in both the main and spare have now been changed.
Maybe the battery was loose and fiddling with the key tightened it?

 

[Gellyneck]

It started up before we changed the battery but the batteries in both the main and spare have now been changed.
Maybe the battery was loose and fiddling with the key tightened it?

Sometimes even holding a battery in your hand for a minute of two gives it enough residual power to operate a few times. Maybe this is what happened when holding it trying to open it up?

 

[manners]

Unfortunately the battery has nothing to do with the immobiliser there is a non powered chip in the key that communicates with the antenna aerial that sits around the ignition barrel, sometimes outside interference can block the signal like radio masts or like i said before a dodgy connection on the aerial. Holding the key closer to the barrel has been reported to work also taking the chip out of the key and fixing it next to the ignition barrel but your insurance would be void if you fixed it permanently.

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