Y2K Bessacarr charger on fire ! (1 Viewer)

[Jaws]

Darrell has just got back from a weekend of debauc.. sorry, of partying in a field, with a sorry tale of woe, clutching a nasty blackened mess.
The charger !

It is a real bottom end of the market jobby ( original Bessacarr fit ) with 10amp rating
Zoe heard a strange noise coming from the cupboard, opened it to see a 3 or 4" high flame coming out of the charger

I just opened it up and what I found is shocking.
1) No overheat protection
2) No thermal cut off
3) The bit on fire was just the large capacitor sitting downstream of the fuse ( I believe it was being used as a sort of filter as it is coupled to a toroidal coil ) but the fuse was in tact.
4) The fuse was the original one correctly rated
5) Upon inspection it looks like the thyristors used are only rated at 3 amps and a massive heat sink has been used to try and stop them going in to thermal runaway.. It was at least one of those that failed ( to dead short .. if it had failed to open circuit there would have been no drama just a lac=k of charge ) causing a voltage feedback that blew the capacitor ..

I have seen these crappy chargers before.. Never have liked them and would have changed it out for him if I had known what was fitted
A description.. Vented tin box tin box about 8" x 5" x 2.5"
Three pin ( line across ) mains plug in, output two spade connectors
Usually in plain galvy but sometimes painted black

New 3 stage 18amp charger now on the way.. Less than £90 delivered.

 

[Bart]

Darrell has just got back from a weekend of debauc.. sorry, of partying in a field, with a sorry tale of woe, clutching a nasty blackened mess.
The charger !

It is a real bottom end of the market jobby ( original Bessacarr fit ) with 10amp rating
Zoe heard a strange noise coming from the cupboard, opened it to see a 3 or 4" high flame coming out of the charger

I just opened it up and what I found is shocking.
1) No overheat protection
2) No thermal cut off
3) The bit on fire was just the large capacitor sitting downstream of the fuse ( I believe it was being used as a sort of filter as it is coupled to a toroidal coil ) but the fuse was in tact.
4) The fuse was the original one correctly rated
5) Upon inspection it looks like the thyristors used are only rated at 3 amps and a massive heat sink has been used to try and stop them going in to thermal runaway.. It was at least one of those that failed ( to dead short .. if it had failed to open circuit there would have been no drama just a lac=k of charge ) causing a voltage feedback that blew the capacitor ..

I have seen these crappy chargers before.. Never have liked them and would have changed it out for him if I had known what was fitted
A description.. Vented tin box tin box about 8" x 5" x 2.5"
Three pin ( line across ) mains plug in, output two spade connectors
Usually in plain galvy but sometimes painted black

New 3 stage 18amp charger now on the way.. Less than £90 delivered.

When I get home I was gonna pull mine out to get some info from it e.g make , model , amperage , etc, now I'll also post some info here @Jaws to see if mine has the same one....
My Bessacarr is 2007

 

[tonyidle]

Is it a switch mode - I assume it is?

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[Steve]

that sounds just like the one i pulled out of my 2004 ci. mine was under the drivers seat and had it cought fire the seat would have gone proberbly taking the van with it. I would advise everyone to have the units checked out at the very least.

 

[chrisgreen]

was he connected to a genorator over the weekend in the feild?

 

[Jaws]

was he connected to a genorator over the weekend in the feild?

Yes, a Honda one that I have checked this afternoon
Putting out 224 v at precisely 50 cycles.. ( this on a scope checked against the mains to be doubly sure )
My thought was the cycles were miles off which caused the input filter to fail.. but it was not the case
But having said that over the past 8 years I have known a couple of others to fail with similar reported issues.. I suspect it is more just an age thing rather than anything else, though the fact it was over rated from word go AND the fuse never went even though the at least one of the main control devices was dead short is of concern

As you can probably gather, I enjoy finding what caused an issue rather than just finding the fault

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[Jaws]

When I get home I was gonna pull mine out to get some info from it e.g make , model , amperage , etc, now I'll also post some info here @Jaws to see if mine has the same one....
My Bessacarr is 2007

Totally different animal and I believe far better spec all round to the P.O.S. in question Bart

 

[chrisgreen]

Yes, a Honda one that I have checked this afternoon
Putting out 224 v at precisely 50 cycles.. ( this on a scope checked against the mains to be doubly sure )
My thought was the cycles were miles off which caused the input filter to fail.. but it was not the case
But having said that over the past 8 years I have known a couple of others to fail with similar reported issues.. I suspect it is more just an age thing rather than anything else, though the fact it was over rated from word go AND the fuse never went even though the at least one of the main control devices was dead short is of concern

As you can probably gather, I enjoy finding what caused an issue rather than just finding the fault

i was just asking ,cause mine almost caught fire while on a genny at one of the bring and buys,and it was one that you discribed,it was also a honda genny,i smelled it before it caught fire and it was hot to touch,also replaced it with a 3 stage charger no problem since.

 

[Jaws]

i was just asking ,cause mine almost caught fire while on a genny at one of the bring and buys,and t was one that you discribed,it was also a honda genny,i smelled it before it caught fire and it was hot to touch,also replaced it with a 3 stage charger no problem since.

Yep.. To be honest I was convinced I would find an issue with the genny.. It is mine and I had lent it to Darrell, so was gonna pay for the new unit if I could find fault with the genny..
Sadly for Darrell there was no fault found and after more than an hour on load it still performed perfectly..so he has had to cough up for the new charger..

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[Cal54]

@Jaws, This sort of info scares the pants off me. I have a friend who bought a Bessie last year but he will admit to being totally 'green' when it comes to the electrics on his MH. This is his first van and he knows nothing. If I can get him to take a photo of the charging unit do you think you would be able to advise if his is a load of rubbish.? I'm afraid its like a foreign language all this talk about capacitors, thermal runaway etc,

 

[chrisgreen]

Yep.. To be honest I was convinced I would find an issue with the genny.. It is mine and I had lent it to Darrell, so was gonna pay for the new unit if I could find fault with the genny..
Sadly for Darrell there was no fault found and after more than an hour on load it still performed perfectly..so he has had to cough up for the new charger..

i must be honest! although i never start my genny while connected to the van,i have let it run out of fuel while connected and did wonder if that caused the charger a few problems?

 

[PeteH]

Was this one of the Older "plugin systems" Jobby`s?. They where phased out, largely because of a tendency to Over charge and or Under charge batteries. Found A LOT in caravans, they are not designed to cope with modern demands and requirements and prone to failure, However this is the first I have heard of, actually going Incendiary!!. They usually just stop charging!. Often having burnt through the cable where it enters the connector which is self extinguishing.

The Genny output would IMV not have caused the issue as the components are are fairly tolerant of Frequency, but I suppose running at reduced Voltage, (if it increased current) Might cause an issue?. Interesting Tech; Thread though and an object lesson for us all, ref the fragility of older electrical components.

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[Jaws]

@Jaws, This sort of info scares the pants off me. I have a friend who bought a Bessie last year but he will admit to being totally 'green' when it comes to the electrics on his MH. This is his first van and he knows nothing. If I can get him to take a photo of the charging unit do you think you would be able to advise if his is a load of rubbish.? I'm afraid its like a foreign language all this talk about capacitors, thermal runaway etc,

Yes of course, no problem..
But I would not worry too much..
Think about this..
For every unit that goes phut there are thopusands and thousands that outlive the vehicle they are fitted to !

i must be honest! although i never start my genny while connected to the van,i have let it run out of fuel while connected and did wonder if that caused the charger a few problems?

Not really Chris.. Switch mode PSU's will auto-stabilize over a quite huge input voltage range.. and if the input gets TOO low ( probably below 100v ) it will simply stop working

Was this one of the Older "plugin systems" Jobby`s?. They where phased out, largely because of a tendency to Over charge and or Under charge batteries. Found A LOT in caravans, they are not designed to cope with modern demands and requirements and prone to failure, However this is the first I have heard of, actually going Incendiary!!. They usually just stop charging!. Often having burnt through the cable where it enters the connector which is self extinguishing.

The Genny output would IMV not have caused the issue as the components are are fairly tolerant of Frequency, but I suppose running at reduced Voltage, (if it increased current) Might cause an issue?. Interesting Tech; Thread though and an object lesson for us all, ref the fragility of older electrical components.

I agree with all that but for the frequency bit.. If the QRG rises too high the oscillator can become swamped and then the unit could ( could ) pass straight AC via the primary and secondary torodial to the control circuitry.. But yes, it would take some serious deviation from the intended range to cause issues !

 

[Bart]

New 3 stage 18amp charger now on the way.. Less than £90 delivered.

jaws have you got a link for the charger please

 

[Jaws]

jaws have you got a link for the charger please

I just went on fleabay and found a suitable one..
In fact they do have two left..

Link Removed

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[Bart]

I just went on fleabay and found a suitable one..
In fact they do have two left..

Link Removed

Thanks Jaws

 

[Bart]

@Jaws
I have just been out and removed my charger.
Do you think mine is the same as the one that went on fire.
Here is mine :
Broken Link Removed

 

[Jaws]

@Jaws
I have just been out and removed my charger.
Do you think mine is the same as the one that went on fire.
Here is mine :
Broken Link Removed

No mate.. that one you show is a brilliant bit of kit.. Very very nice indeed

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[scotzsue]

No mate.. that one you show is a brilliant bit of kit.. Very very nice indeed

Good to hear as that is what we have thanks.

 

[Bart]

No mate.. that one you show is a brilliant bit of kit.. Very very nice indeed

@Jaws Lol glad to hear that from a point of view that it's safe, BUT ....Doh!!!!!! I jumped the gun and ordered one of them battery chargers you linked above as I was thinking before about changing it , and seeing that fire made up my mind
now relooking at the whole thread I see I missed post no.7 from you above where you said the charger I have is good.
So now , is the new charger I've ordered better ? Same ? Or worse than my current one.....

 

[Jaws]

@Jaws Lol glad to hear that from a point of view that it's safe, BUT ....Doh!!!!!! I jumped the gun and ordered one of them battery chargers you linked above as I was thinking before about changing it , and seeing that fire made up my mind
now relooking at the whole thread I see I missed post no.7 from you above where you said the charger I have is good.
So now , is the new charger I've ordered better ? Same ? Or worse than my current one.....

It is about the same really..

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[GWAYGWAY]

The Honda is an invertor generator and as such is a very reliable frequency and voltage unit. The fault is in the unit as it is most likely a pile of poo a bit like sargent units (er; Jaws had problems)

 

[Jaws]

The Honda is an invertor generator and as such is a very reliable frequency and voltage unit. The fault is in the unit as it is most likely a pile of poo a bit like sargent units (er; Jaws had problems)

Not with the Sargent charging system ( other than the daft way it is wired )..
It was the EM50 unit that had a fault on the PCB ..
Mind you, I am not saying the Sargent unit is bullet proof only that ( touch wood and whistle ! ) so far mine has behaved really rather well

 

[Bart]

@Jaws or anyone else , on the output of my new battery charger that connects to the battery bank there are just two terminals one marked positive and the other negative , yet on my OLD battery charger ( linked below ) there were three terminals out that went to the battery bank which are marked as follows : one marked as positive and one as negative , but im not sure what the third terminal out of the old battery charger was for as it was not marked that i could see , but i suspect something to tell the control panel that i was connected to EHU , as now with the new charger when i'm connected to EHU its not showing up on the control panel.
Broken Link Removed

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