Using to many volts on 12v than EHU? (1 Viewer)

[pappajohn]

Leave me alone, I'm tired.

 

[TheCaller]

Seems odd if its showing 1.1amps from the battery when on hookup but capable of delivering a higher current and 7.9 when off hookup.

+1.1A when on hookup & -7.9A when off. So the charger is supplying the load & putting a bit into the batteries when on hookup.

In some of the later photos, the '-' sign is hidden by the reflection of the light from the camera.

The EC450 has a three stage charger, so a battery voltage of 13.8V while on hookup suggest that either the batteries are still very flat & the charger is still trying to raise them to 14.4V, or they are almost fully charged & the charger is switching to float voltage. It's a 20A charger & as the load + the charging current is only about 10A, it suggests that almost fully charged is more likely.

From fully charged, 2 x 90Ah batteries should easily supply an 8A load for 10 hours without a problem. So if they are not holding up that long, the batteries themselves come under suspicion.

 

[HandyAndy]

Leave me alone, I'm tired.

So am i. ??

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[pappajohn]

the batteries themselves come under suspicion.

Agreed, I did mention that earlier.
I appreciate these are a year old but did say even a new battery can be faulty.

 

[Theonlysue]

The lights do not go off in the fridge, they are a really low draw.
The Sargent panel as previously said will pull a small amount.
The fluorescent lights sound like the culprit.
Can you use an led light if you have any?
Is the TV 12v or working on an invertor??

 

[Jo662]

Usually Sargent unit will draw .2 to .5 amps depending on which model it is
All the older systems has a reset calibration mode for current draw, but that looks a later unit..
Does it have a model type printed any where, and do you have a control panel that switches on water etc ?

its a Sargent EC450 and it does have switches for heater and water heater.

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[Jo662]

Amp HOURS PAPA ?
Yes I'm still awake ????
Good to see we have some info on what the sargent is likely using in standby anyway.
One other thing i thought of while in the shower, is anything plugged in the ciggy sockets on the dash, maybe the satnav or a phone left on charge?

I did have stuff plug in socket but it only powers up with ignition on.

 

[Jo662]

The lights do not go off in the fridge, they are a really low draw.
The Sargent panel as previously said will pull a small amount.
The fluorescent lights sound like the culprit.
Can you use an led light if you have any?
Is the TV 12v or working on an invertor??

I did use only LED lights the other night when the batteries went flat,and yes my tv is 12v and I don’t have an inverter.

 

[jockaneezer]

Can you separate your batteries to see if one is pulling the other down ?

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[Pausim]

I may have missed something in all this helpful advice but the bit that caught my attention was 13.8v. If this is the maximum voltage achieved is it enough to recharge the batteries properly, to me it looks like a maintenance voltage not a charging one. Some years ago I had a motorhome with an ehu charger that churned out a constant 13.6v and the batteries failed after less than 2 years.

At that time there was an argument going on between battery manufacturers and some electrical manufacturers, the nub of the argument was that devices that produced a constant 13.6v should not be described as battery chargers but only as a supply. When I discovered this argument I did some more investigation and bought a proper battery charger (Sterling) and some new batteries, problem solved.

 

[Jo662]

Can you separate your batteries to see if one is pulling the other down ?

im away on the ile de re so I will check the batteries when I’m home next week.

 

[Richard n Ann]

I may have missed something in all this helpful advice but the bit that caught my attention was 13.8v. If this is the maximum voltage achieved is it enough to recharge the batteries properly, to me it looks like a maintenance voltage not a charging one. Some years ago I had a motorhome with an ehu charger that churned out a constant 13.6v and the batteries failed after less than 2 years.

At that time there was an argument going on between battery manufacturers and some electrical manufacturers, the nub of the argument was that devices that produced a constant 13.6v should not be described as battery chargers but only as a supply. When I discovered this argument I did some more investigation and bought a proper battery charger (Sterling) and some new batteries, problem solved.

Yes our 2014 Elddis just came with a 13.8v power supply. Not very good.

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[Jaws]

So it would seem Sargent are not the only ones with this 13.8v fixation

Jo662. is there a separate control panel as well as the main box ? There should be..

The 450 does not run a two feed system as I first said... It has a total output of 20 amp max but it runs in intelligently reducing available charge amps as the load ( lights etc ) Increases.
So if you are drawing 7.5 amps you still have a max of 12,5 Amps charging capability

 

[SomeoneElse]

Yes our 2014 Elddis just came with a 13.8v power supply. Not very good.

Yes it seems to be the British caravan system, the same on our 2010 Elddis and our 2013 Bailey. Both with a caravan background.
When I changed the Bailey charger for a Votronic triple with a proper three stage charger including a 45Amp B2B, the batteries improved greatly. I was ready to replace the batteries to give the new charger a chance but didn't need to.

 

[Jo662]

So it would seem Sargent are not the only ones with this 13.8v fixation

Jo662. is there a separate control panel as well as the main box ? There should be..

View attachment 340731

The 450 does not run a two feed system as I first said... It has a total output of 20 amp max but it runs in intelligently reducing available charge amps as the load ( lights etc ) Increases.
So if you are drawing 7.5 amps you still have a max of 12,5 Amps charging capability

That's the one I have yes?

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[Jaws]

That's the one I have yes?

OK, as long as the system is powered on and feeding the control panel a draw of about .3 - .4 Amps would be expected
I do not know of any calibration set up for the 450 ( does not mean there isn't one ), but those meters are not terribly accurate, so it is quite possible you are 'chasing fairies' looking for a draw that is not there

Hate to say it, but it is looking more and more like at least one faulty battery.. Not that unusual and why they come with a warranty .. Very often a two year warranty too

 

[TheCaller]

I may have missed something in all this helpful advice but the bit that caught my attention was 13.8v. If this is the maximum voltage achieved is it enough to recharge the batteries properly, to me it looks like a maintenance voltage not a charging one. Some years ago I had a motorhome with an ehu charger that churned out a constant 13.6v and the batteries failed after less than 2 years.

That was my first thought too, but according to Sargent, the EC450 has a 3 stage charger that should charge at 14.4V during the bulk phase.

The EC450 has a three stage charger, so a battery voltage of 13.8V while on hookup suggest that either the batteries are still very flat & the charger is still trying to raise them to 14.4V, or they are almost fully charged & the charger is switching to float voltage. It's a 20A charger & as the load + the charging current is only about 10A, it suggests that almost fully charged is more likely.

 

[Jo662]

So on the Sargent box display should it show more amps when on 12v than when it's on EHU?

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[TheCaller]

So on the Sargent box display should it show more amps when on 12v than when it's on EHU?

Sort of. Depends what you mean by 'more'.

Judging by the photos you have shown earlier, the battery amps it is displaying is the net inflow or outflow of current through the batteries. So when stationary at night & not on EHU, there is nothing providing any current flow into the batteries & the display will show a figure prefixed by a minus sign to show how much current is being drawn from the batteries by your lights & anything else that is on.

If the sun is shining on your solar panel, or the engine is running, or you are on EHU, then you will be getting some power from elsewhere. Given the same load on the batteries (you still have the lights on etc), you will see that negative figure go down & if there is enough power coming in, it will start to show a positive figure as there is now more power available than is being used. The extra power will now be used to recharge the batteries & that's when you see a positive figure shown on the Battery Amps display.

 

[PhilandMena]

I too have the Sargent system and a couple of thoughts spring to my mind after reading your post.
The 7 amp draw sounds about right with your fan heater blowing. When My Webasto heater is on it only draws a couple of amps after the glow plug ignites the fuel but the heating fan that distributes the hot air uses another 7-9 Amps. Also, I wonder what batteries you have switched over to on the Sargent system. On mine I can run my habitation services from either the cab or leisure batteries. (I suspect you have selected the correct batteries). Finally, and most importantly, IMO it's impossible to accurately measure a battery state when there is a load on it and I wonder if this is why the reading is showing low on your system when in use. I'm of the opinion your system is behaving as it should and you do not have a fault. When on hookup the readings are almost identical to mine. Although your battery is showing below 12.V when off hook up its because there is a load on it. It will be somewhat higher after it has rested. I advise, you switch your heating off as soon as the motorhome gets warm. 15-20 minutes in mine. It's the Fan that's drawing the majority of Amps.

 

[Jo662]

I have been on a campsite in the Ile de Re for a couple of nights with EHU and obviously every thing has been fine with my electrics. Now on the park and ride aire in La Rochelle. When we arrived the leisure batteries showed 14v,and when we came back from a day in town the solar had kept them topped up to 14v. Now after having tv and a couple of LED lights on the leisure battery level is down to 12.5v,which I would of thought wasnt to be bad. But I do think the newish leisure batteries,or one of them is faulty. Will check when home next week.

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[TheCaller]

Now after having tv and a couple of LED lights on the leisure battery level is down to 12.5v,which I would of thought wasnt to be bad.

Celebrate with a bottle or two before bed. That will ensure the need to get up again around 3 - 4am, while it is still dark. Check the voltage then. No charge going in & (hopefully) nothing having gone out for several hours. The batteries will be at their resting voltage & it will give a good indication of their state of charge.

If they show around 12.6V having rested for an hour or so & after having run the TV & lights for a few hours, then they are likely to be ok.

Also check the Battery Amps reading. It should be very close to zero - but the accuracy at low levels might be suspect. Use a torch - don't turn a light on!!

 

[Jo662]

Celebrate with a bottle or two before bed. That will ensure the need to get up again around 3 - 4am, while it is still dark. Check the voltage then. No charge going in & (hopefully) nothing having gone out for several hours. The batteries will be at their resting voltage & it will give a good indication of their state of charge.

If they show around 12.6V having rested for an hour or so & after having run the TV & lights for a few hours, then they are likely to be ok.

Also check the Battery Amps reading. It should be very close to zero - but the accuracy at low levels might be suspect. Use a torch - don't turn a light on!!

ok will do and will report back in morning. Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

 

[PhilandMena]

Will check when home next week.

How are you going to do that ?

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[HandyAndy]

When you arrived back at the aire the 14v was displayed because either...
1. There was still good sunlight and the solar was still charging them
2. The engine was still running when you checked
3. You checked immediately on arrival and there was still a large surface charge on the battery (this is my least favourite as 14v for a surface charge is quite high but thought I'd add it anyway)

A fully charged (but rested) battery will be in the region of 12.6 to 12.8 volts.
At 12.5 volts that's hardly taken anything out of them at all.
The reason you were later seeing the 12.5v instead of your previous 14v, I suspect was because it was dark and the solar was no longer charging them..
However, this differs from your post from the other day saying they were at 11.9v.
Now if that was with your 7-8 amp draw being sucked out of the battery at the time of reading that might not be so bad as it looks.
Battery voltage will "sag" under load and give a false indication of how much "resting" or maybe a better phrase would be "reserve" capacity they have left in them.
When you are checking voltage for this purpose, as previously stated I think, the batteries need to be at rest, not powered by anything and not being charged by anything, (and not had a charge by anything for at least 30 mins before hand, otherwise all your random readings will be really misleading..

 

[Jo662]

How are you going to do that ?

I meant I will check the batteries when I’m home. Think best to take them out to check them don’t you think?

 

[Jo662]

When you arrived back at the aire the 14v was displayed because either...
1. There was still good sunlight and the solar was still charging them
2. The engine was still running when you checked
3. You checked immediately on arrival and there was still a large surface charge on the battery (this is my least favourite as 14v for a surface charge is quite high but thought I'd add it anyway)

A fully charged (but rested) battery will be in the region of 12.6 to 12.8 volts.
At 12.5 volts that's hardly taken anything out of them at all.
The reason you were later seeing the 12.5v instead of your previous 14v, I suspect was because it was dark and the solar was no longer charging them..
However, this differs from your post from the other day saying they were at 11.9v.
Now if that was with your 7-8 amp draw being sucked out of the battery at the time of reading that might not be so bad as it looks.
Battery voltage will "sag" under load and give a false indication of how much "resting" or maybe a better phrase would be "reserve" capacity they have left in them.
When you are checking voltage for this purpose, as previously stated I think, the batteries need to be at rest, not powered by anything and not being charged by anything, (and not had a charge by anything for at least 30 mins before hand, otherwise all your random readings will be really misleading..

I put the reading of 14v when we got here as being on EHU for two days and only driving 6 miles to get here. And it was sunny so the solar panel would of been performing well!
it go down to 11.9v at the previous aire because we had the heating on aswell as the lights and tv.

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[PhilandMena]

I meant I will check the batteries when I’m home. Think best to take them out to check them don’t you think?

I'm wondering how your going to check them???? What method are you going to use ??? Why do you need to take them out ???? I'm now convinced your problem is your lack of experience/knowledge (and I mean that in a sincere not criticle manner) and in fact your batteries and charging system is behaving as it should. You could check you still have 2 leisure batteries on board but other than that, I think you would be wasting energy, your energy, not battery energy.

 

[Jo662]

I'm wondering how your going to check them???? What method are you going to use ??? Why do you need to take them out ???? I'm now convinced your problem is your lack of experience/knowledge (and I mean that in a sincere not criticle manner) and in fact your batteries and charging system is behaving as it should. You could check you still have 2 leisure batteries on board but other than that, I think you would be wasting energy, your energy, not battery energy.

I have little Knowledge about the electric system,but it seems to me with two leisure batteries i shouldn’t be restricted with what I can turn on,especially in the winter. They have worked ok since I fitted them,but recently they don’t seem to hold there power like the old ones did.

 

[PhilandMena]

I suggest you improve your understanding of how much Amps your habitation services use when not on hook up and how this affects your battery life. Batteries will have to work a lot harder in the winter due to temperature and less light when reliant on solar power.

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