Using a Scooter with motorhome

Discussion in 'The Beginner' started by peterc10, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. peterc10

    peterc10 Funster

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    Hi, I am still a newbie so would like some advice please

    I am looking at the feasibility of using a lightweight Scooter with my motorhome. Looking at the Honda Vision 110 which weighs in at 102kg. We are retirees (just) and I have a full UK motorbike licence, but in reality have not ridden one since 1969 when I got rid of my Lambretta. The Honda seemed easy to control and I felt at home on it straight away. My wife seemed OK on the back. Mind you all of this was in the showroom, not on the road!

    I can get it in the garage of my Adria Coral 660SL (just), and it will still leave me about 50kg of spare loading capacity in there for chairs etc. Have been looking at lightweight ramps and a wheel chock.

    I am thinking of using it so that I can go and see local attractions and shops while leaving the motorhome set up. I guess the maximum distance we will go in a day on it will be 50 - 100 miles, and I doubt I will ever take it out when it raining. We will stay in and read on those days.

    So how easy is all this? Is it easy to wheel it up the ramp and in? All the pros and cons please of using it the way we are thinking would be helpful.

    Edit - one more thing I have just checked. We have bed supports going across the garage and the Honda's handlebars will not go under them. So I will need to back it in rather than wheel it in! Feasible???

    Many thanks in advance
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  2. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    are you using the rear axles max weight and the scooters weight in your calculation ?

    if so it doesnt work thsat way.

    the scooter may be 102kg but positioned aft of the rear axle imposes a higher weight on the axle due to the leverage effect.

    you obviously have the axle weights so try this calculator to get an accurate axle weight with the scooter in the garage.

    scroll down the page to LDA, below the chart is the download option.

    enter theweights and measures as accurately as you can.


    http://www.svtech.co.uk/motorhomes.html
     
  3. Nirvanauk

    Nirvanauk Funster

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    Just to let you know that I carry a Honda 125 on a rack on the back of my PVC. It seems to work well with no problems getting it on or off. However it does take the payload perilously close to max leaving me only about 40 kgs spare. I too have recently retired and loving it :RollEyes:
     
  4. peterc10

    peterc10 Funster

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    Pappajohn. Yes I know about dynamics, cos I are (or wuz) an enguneer. I am using the maximum payload (150kg) for the garage as advised by Adria and the maker of the chassis extension that the the garage sits on. Don't have much behind the rear axle other than that. And I have a pretty healthy overall payload (over 500kg). So I think I am OK on that front.

    NirvanaUK - don't want to put it on the back as, because of those pesky dynamics, and the chassis extension, I would be able to load nothing in the garage at all. How do you get on with your motorbike (more of that than a scooter isn't it?).
     
  5. herbies

    herbies Read Only Funster

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    try these people. i have one and it works very well
    good luck
     
  6. peterc10

    peterc10 Funster

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    Herbies. Thanks but there seems to be no link in your post
     
  7. voyagerstan

    voyagerstan Read Only Funster

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    got 250 honda on the back of ours realy enjoy it gives you allsorts of options , exploring ,shopping , out for the day . must say i to am a fair weather rider so used mostly souther europe and africa . cant help with garage cos ive got rack but i think it would be tricky putting it in backwards . :driving2: stan
     
  8. Nirvanauk

    Nirvanauk Funster

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    NirvanaUK - don't want to put it on the back as, because of those pesky dynamics, and the chassis extension, I would be able to load nothing in the garage at all. How do you get on with your motorbike (more of that than a scooter isn't it?).[/QUOTE]

    To be quite honest I am fine on my own its when the missus gets on the back that I feel less stable. Also, I was never a big biker so now into my mid 60s I do feel a bit nervous, although I make myself feel fat so take up more of the road so other people give me a wider berth.:Rofl1:
     
  9. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    be aware putting a motorcycle/scooter inside the "garage" takes your van into a different tax/MOT category as a "living van". Ask Alan on here, he is an expert on such things.

    get stopped by VOSA, who are having a bit of a campaign at present and your wrongly registered/taxed/moted then its big trouble and a big fine.

    oh and take the manufacturers garage payload with a pinch of salt. the only true test is load up with water, fuel, food, clothes and occupants etc and then go weigh it all at a weigh bridge. the manufacturers can only quote for an empty van as it leaves the factory, and even then some are just wrong. it happens all the time, and you would not be the first or last to have this issue
     
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  10. peterc10

    peterc10 Funster

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    TheBig1

    What is a "living van"? I am not going to be living in it all the time (like some others on here). It will be for trips away and I am confused as to how putting a scooter in a garage (as opposed to the alternative of a couple of electric bikes) changes things in the respect of it no longer being a motorhome. Why is it different to having the scooter (or bikes) on the back I wonder? Be especially interested in the relevant Acts if possible so I can do a bit of research into it.

    As for loading, all of the things you list are between the wheels, and in the case of the heaviest ones, i.e. water fuel and occupants, much closer to the front than back axle. Whilst that adds to both axles it does not have the magnifying effect that the cantilever load in the garage does. But I will take your advice and take it to a weighbridge once I have got it loaded.
     
  11. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    [HI]a quote from elsewhere:-[/HI]

    The following information appears in the Feb 2007 issue of Motor Caravan.

    [VOSA has changed the classification of some Motor Caravans to "Living Vans" so that they now require a class vii (Goods Vehicle) MOT. The changes will affect motor homes with garages, over 3000 kg. A Living Van between 3000kg and 3500 kg requires a Class vii MOT while Living Vans over 3500 kg could be subject to a HGV MOT every year from new.

    Rob Haggar of the Department of Transport clarifies what is meant by a Living Van. He said "It is our view that bikes or cars carried in a designated area on a vehicle should be regarded as goods and that vehicles which have the capacity to carry such items within them have to be regarded as Living Vans and not Motor Caravans"]

    The Class vii MOT (£53.80) is specifically for goods vehicles and not the same as the Class iv MOT (£50.35) for cars and Motor Caravans.
     
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  12. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    just checked my old files for this

    "A 'motor caravan' is "a motor vehicle (not being a living van) which is
    constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and
    which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which
    are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living
    accommodation for its users". Motor caravans are not classed as goods
    vehicles for MOT test purposes and are therefore in class IV or V depending
    on their seating capacity but regardless of their size or weight.

    A 'living van' is "a vehicle, whether mechanically propelled or not, which
    is used for living accommodation by one or more persons and which is also
    used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one
    or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle". 'Living
    vans' are classed as goods vehicles and, depending on their weight, are
    therefore in either class IV or VII within the MOT test scheme or are
    subject to HGV plating and testing.

    A 'living van' up to 3000kg dgw (Design Gross Weight) would require a class IV
    test, and the first MOT would be due on the third anniversary of first
    registration.

    'Living vans' over 3000kg and up to 3500kg dgw require a class
    VII test and would require an MOT when the vehicle is 1 year old.

    (NB This statement was later corrected - see below)
    If the 'living van' is over this weight then it would be a HGV MOT test that the
    vehicle would require and this also would be due when the vehicle is 1 year
    old. "

    so basically, if you carry a car or motorcycle or scooter inside your motorhome it becomes a living van. It does not relate to living full time in the van

     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  13. herbies

    herbies Read Only Funster

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    sorry they are called wattling engineering if you google that
    K/R
     
  14. peterc10

    peterc10 Funster

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    If this covers "any vehicles which have the capacity to carry such items within them", as is being suggested in the quote, that would include my motorhome (and about 30% of all newer motorhomes which are capable of carrying bikes inside them) whether or not they are actually carrying anything of the sort.

    So I do not have a motorhome after all, and nor does anybody who is using a van that is capable of carrying a bike (note not motorbike in the quote) or car. And if we include a folding bike in that description, then it would cover about 95% of motorhomes. Seems ludicrous to me.

    I am not digging at you at all (thanks for pointing it out to me) just the daft idiot from the DoT who made the quote. The terms "goods" is usually used in a commercial sense, in that the goods are being carried (or sold in the case of certain legislation) for some form of reward or some form of commercial or professional activity. So I was carrying a bike because I was a professional cyclist, or to hire it out once I got on site, or to use it as a display to sell bikes or parts. None of that applies to me. Otherwise my clothes or the food I carry could be classed as "goods".

    I would be really interested in seeing the relevant legislation as that will put this all into better context. Can anybody help me with that please - just the name of the Act so I can find it on line myself.

    In the 6 years since that quote was made has anybody actually had this sort of problem when carrying bikes (motor or otherwise) inside their van please?
     
  15. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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  16. ivorantony

    ivorantony Funster

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    Hi I have a vision 110 that fits inside my Adria vision with room to spare,
    It's great for visiting town centres and local shops, did take her for a 150 mile trip once buts its really a commuting machine, with a top box it will hold two full face helmets, plenty of space for the shopping when going to town,
     
  17. peterc10

    peterc10 Funster

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    Thanks ivorantony. Do you have any trouble wheeling it up the ramp and into the garage. How do you hold it steady in the garage please? And I was looking to get a topbox too. I will need one that can easily be removed because of the height issue

    I think the Vision is an A class with a similar layout to my Coral coachbuilt, except I have 2 single beds at the rear rather than one double. I think the garage may have a bit more height than my Coral, although it looks about the same width so I am glad it fits easily.
     
  18. peterc10

    peterc10 Funster

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    Sorry TheBig1 I did not see the more detailed info in your latest post when I replied previously. So it all comes down to the definition of "goods or burden which are not needed by such one or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle".

    I wonder why that covers a motorbike to get around, but not bikes to get around. I don't "need" a camera or a set of hiking boots or a walking stick or my BBQ for "the purpose" of my "residence in the vehicle" do I. They are all related to what I do outside the vehicle, as are the bikes and scooter. So anybody with those is also in trouble? And it applies equally to any "carrying" of these items, so that would include on a rack or trailer?

    Has anybody actually had any sort of problem with the carrying of scooters or motorbikes?
     
  19. ivorantony

    ivorantony Funster

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    Hi I fitted a motorcycle stand similar to this one
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STEEL-FRO...18?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item51a693c85e

    And also a aluminium sliding ramp, I don't need to remove mirrors and just push her in until she locks into the stand, then two ratchet tied owns to hold her in place, it's easy to do on my own but she goes forward up the ramp and not backwards,
    I find it amazing that people accept nonsencle rules that have no baring on safety, just put in to raise revenue, if I carried my scooter on the outside rear it would increase my rear axel load to a unacceptable level but in the eyes of VOSA
    That's fine as long I am not running overweight, absolutely absurd !!!
     
  20. peterc10

    peterc10 Funster

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    Many thanks again ivorantony.

    As I said in previous post your garage must be quite a bit higher than mine. I will need to take the mirrors off to get it in, and then only if I push it in backwards. Do you find it easy pushing it up the ramp or do you "drive" it up?

    Also does your ramp slide in with the bike? It is flat or V-shaped? The ones I have been looking at are like this one. Is yours more like this one?

    Thanks for help and sorry for all the questions
     
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