tax class on motorhomes

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by bubble, Jun 8, 2010.

  1. bubble

    bubble Read Only Funster

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    Please help just about to pick up our new to us van. It is a Hymer 655 starline 2005. The owner has told us its 3800 but on the log book it says 3500. At the moment its on disabled tax so we have to tax it on collection, i phoned dvla yesterday and they tell me its classed as diesel no emmissions available as its an import and the cost is £205 . I have read lots of stuff on here about tax but can't remember what the benefits and drawbacks there is for having it changed to 3800. it has been to the weigh bridge and it is 3800 loaded so what do you think We should do. new to motorhomes so any advice would be grate. We looked a brochure for this year make model hymer and it says 3800/ 3500 . what does this mean. The hymer has lots of factory fitted extras so could it be an upgraded chassis if so how do we find this out. would like to be within the law and travel without worrying. Also need to get it sorted for insurance and recovery dont want to get on the wrong side of them as it could be a costly change afterwards. Thanks lynne:Doh:
     
  2. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    start at the begining .
    1 . have all the drivers got c1 on their licence.
    2 . look on vehicle for a plate with weights stamped on it .
    3. take all including van to your local dvla office for inspection.
    4. road tax is cheaper if you have a m,home over 3,500kg gross vehicle weight.
    you make the choice .or ring svtec .cant remember their number speak to gareth marsh. he will charge you but they are specialists on chassis dynamics. you can do it yourself but most find it easier to use svtec. or others similar.
    the extra payload is usefull but only if you have the correct licence .pre 1997 test pass is essential as you got c1 automaticaly.cheers hope thats helped. alan.
     
  3. robnchris

    robnchris Funster

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    uprating

    Hi, We have just uprated our motorhome, SVtech were very helpful, cost us £282 to change from 3500kg to 3880kg.

    We can now carry our motorcycle legally. :thumb:
     
  4. JeanLuc

    JeanLuc Funster

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    The B655 Starline was built on a Mercedes Sprinter chassis; either a 313 or 316. The last number denotes the engine power (313 = 130 bhp and a 2.2 litre engine, 316 = 160 bhp and a 2.7 litre engine). The weight carrying capacity is the same regardless of engine. Standard trim for this chassis as used in the Starline is 3,800 kg MAM, but it could be down-rated to 3,500 kg to avoid continental tax and driving limitations. There was not an upgrade option above 3,800 kg offered by Hymer.

    As Alan has said, provided drivers hold a C1 licence category, they can drive a vehicle in excess of 3,500 kg (up to 7,500 kg). Firstly, check the Hymer plate to see what the vehicle is rated at (see example below). If it is 3,800, then you should be able to get the V5 document changed to match. It will then be classified as a "Private Heavy Goods Vehicle".

    If the plate says 3,500 then SVtech can do the replating exercise (it's administrative only, no need for any alterations to the chassis). However, it has been claimed that they are a bit pricey. You might be able to get a revised weight certificate and weight sticker to put on the side of the body, direct from Hymer in Germany. I believe you then simply have to present the certificate to VOSA and DVLA to change the V5.

    Philip
     

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  5. bubble

    bubble Read Only Funster

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    Hi thanks for your replies, we both have C1 on our licence so thats not a problem, Do you know how much cheaper the tax is if you upgrade to a heavier weight, and are there any other benefits of having it changed, What if its plated 3800 and its only DVLA that have it wrong on the V5, can we just go to the local Dvla office and change the v5 and purchase the tax at the same time. Are there more restrictions abroad on heavier motorhomes and if so what are these, we plan to go to France next year in it, so advice would be grate. The previous owner removed tow bar and back box in an effort to get the weight down, He has lost his c1 entitlement so can no longer use the hymer. even with these thing removed it still is over 3500. He has since put them back on as he has now accepted that unless he runs it empty there is no chance of it being 3500. I know I am asking lots of questions but only having our previous motorhome since last october makes us very much the newby, thanks to everybody for reading my post. Lynne:BigGrin:
     
  6. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    some neighbours in france had this , the hymer importer checked the spec and sent them a new plate ...€18 [ can't see the uk importer doing that ! ]
    they then had to register that with the authorities

    but look for the chassis plate [ under the bonnet ] to check , it just may have a 3800 plate , it happens that the registration paper and the plate disagree ! did the owner say it had a 3.5 plate , if the owner has been running at 3.8 surely it has the 3.8 !

    as alan says , hope you have a C licence , otherwise you may have to get rid of 300Kg of load !!!

    see our posts overlapped bubble ...problems elsewhere are

    higher tolls ...but as you will still look like a 3.5 you should get away with that [ don't ask / don't tell ]
    reduced speed limits , speed stickers ...same comment ; if the gendarmerie stop you plead ignorance and hope to get let off , or at least the fine isn't too big
     
  7. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    it probably is dvla error its very common .arrange an inspection with them its free.there should be plates or stickers somewhere on camper take the brochure if you have it .
    as for abroad nobodyknows or cares if it suits tell them its 3.5 if its to weigh you then oh its 3.8 .use your head with out hurting your ears my dad would say.
    try dvla your self if it doesnt work give sv tec a ring .if you lived closer i would say come on we can sort it today. its not difficult . cheers alan.
     
  8. bubble

    bubble Read Only Funster

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    High thanks for the picture of the plate, we don't know what it says as we did not look at the time just thought it would be 3800 on the V5 as that is what the previous owner told us, But I guess it will say 3800 and its just the V5 that is wrong, Can you tell us where to find this plate is it on the rear near the door? Can you tell me what you think of your Hymer, are you happy with it, what is the fuel consumtion like, ours is a 2.7 fully automatic, this is a big purchase for us, we have had a c class 1995 hymer previously and loved it,but we wanted a fixed bed and a sperate shower so this meant a change. Now sold the old one, new one comes in two weeks, can't wait. thanks for great advice, Lynne:BigGrin:
     
  9. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    if you are in contact with the owner why not phone and ask about the plate ?
     
  10. aba

    aba

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    could it not be down as 3500kg for the disabled tax as i would have thought that the disability tax probably wouldn't cover a PHG???
    just a thought.:thumb:

    andy
     
  11. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    disabled tax covers any size vehicle . even an artic truck. so wont be that. usually it was because it may have been first used abroad . or if the last owner was over 70yr old and couldnt be hassled with medicals or something. down plating is easy .i do it regularly .
     
  12. bubble

    bubble Read Only Funster

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    The owner has told us its 3800, and that why he has to sell it as he is no longer able to drive it as his health is bad and dvla has removed c1 from his licence, But I wanted to know about taxing it as we are not aloud to keep his disabled tax and the local post office can not tax it as the log book says disabled. I phoned dvla yesterday to sort it and they were helpful but have the vehicle registered as 3500 and although it is a 2005 vehicle there are no registered emmisions on it, so they charge it as a pre 2001 diesel vehicle which costs £205,I know this is not a bad price as if the emmissions are high we could pay much more on a newer vehicle, but we dont want any troulbe being stopped by vosa being over weight so thought we would get it sorted now rather than later,thanks Lynne:BigGrin:
     
  13. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    visit dvla with as much info as you can i would take the vehicle .if stopped say i,m on my way to tax it .have to go there as its on disabled tax. you are going to tax it either plg or phg .i,m sure if you ask enough questions and cause a fuss they will be ok. if the plate says 3.800 you have won .blame them they like that, ha ha .
    dont worry its all in a days work for them.
     
  14. JeanLuc

    JeanLuc Funster

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    Lynne, several questions in your posts so I'll try and cover them individually.

    The 2.7 Mercedes is a Euro 3 engine for emissions purposes. (This means it will have an amber disc for the German Umwelt zones.) If you need evidence, a MB commercial dealer should be able to confirm it. Tell them the vehicle's VIN number (on the MB plate under the bonnet) and that will identify the vehicle for them.

    The RFL for a PHGV (>3.5 tonnes) is £165 p.a. (currently, but watch this space on 22 June).

    In France there are quite a few 3.5 T weight restrictions in towns and villages. We have never found it a problem, but keep your eyes open for the signs. Having said that, unless the police get a glimpse of the weight plate (that Hymer handily place in full view on the near-side) they will assume you are under the limit. You will have to watch out for speed limits. In France for example, vehicles over 3.5 T cannot exceed 80 kph on single-carriageway roads, and 100 kph (I think) on motorways. We never find that a problem as I cruise at around 80 - 90 kph anyway. Similar limits apply in many countries.

    Regarding fuel consumption, we have the same set-up on our B630 (2.7 with full auto). I have measured consumption accurately over the three + years we have had ours. Taken over the 22,000 plus miles we have run, consumption is 24.6 mpg. As mentioned, I cruise around 90 kph / 56 mph using cruise control a lot of the time.

    Concerning the weight plates, you should compare the Hymer plate (on the grey skirt just in front of the rear wheel on the UK offside) with the MB plate under the bonnet on the left hand side. The numbers should be identical unless Hymer down-rated the vehicle from 3,800 kg.

    Finally, I don't think you have mentioned whether your B655 is LHD. If it is, make sure the speedo has been converted properly. Some just have mph stickers on the plastic window, but this does not meet the requirement that the figures can be seen in the dark. It is not a difficult job to do and a replacement dial can be obtained from Lockwoods.

    Hope this helps. Let me know if you want any more information.

    Philip
     
  15. bubble

    bubble Read Only Funster

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    Thanks so much , for your time and help, great information and we feel much more confident now, speedo has been changed as its LHD from belgium, person we are buying from brought it in from new only has 4500 from new. Gentleman has been too ill to use it. You do not say if you are happy with your Hymer, are you, any drawbacks with it, thanks again lynne.:Smile:
     
  16. JeanLuc

    JeanLuc Funster

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    Wonderful machine. The only motorhome we have owned and we love it. Plenty big enough for the two of us, but we have had four in it. The garage is capacious (I realise yours has a "half-garage") but we value the storage space and what is in effect a bedroom at the back.
    Winterisation is good and the waste tank and dump valve, are insulated and heated by the Truma hot air system.

    One thing worth noting, and assuming that you want to be able to check or change a wheel if necessary, is that the tightening torque for the wheel nuts is 190 Nm (assuming they're steel not alloy). You will struggle to get them undone with the standard wrench. I bought a long "breaker-bar" to get them undone and a decent torque wrench to do them up again. This was after struggling by the side of a busy by-pass following a puncture. The jack is fine for the job of raising the vehicle and it, together with wrench etc are stored under the floor in front of the passenger's seat (took a while to find it first time).

    Enjoy it - I'm sure you will.
    Philip
     
  17. bubble

    bubble Read Only Funster

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    Thanks again, I need a small electric buggy and my husband and son have been turning it on its side and dismantling it to get it in the old van but the previous owner has been putting the same model as mine in the half garage so this is another reason for our change, so excited now, can't wait. Hope to catch up with you at a meet sometime, thanks again Lynne.
     
  18. vwalan

    vwalan Funster

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    if you need a buggy cant you get disability road tax .dont mean to be nosey . if not why not or havnt you applied .
     
  19. bubble

    bubble Read Only Funster

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    I Don't really know, They think I have multiple sclerosis, don't like to ask.
     
  20. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    nobody wants to tell you how much the tax is.....

    PHG is currently £165 per year.

    PLG is currently £206.

    as you both have C1 entitlement and the weighbridge says 3800kg then get it changed.

    you say the logbook states 3500kg so that is the records that DVLA have and if stopped by VOSA you will be classed as 300kg overweight.

    if you have a certificate of conformaty stating 3850kg then just take that to your local DVLA office along with the V5 and enough money to tax for a minimum 6 months.
    if no cert then photo the VIN plate ensuring all data is clearly readable and take that along. they may insist on an inspection to verify tyre ratings, VIN plate etc.

    if you dont retax they wont change the taxation class until you do.
    you will be refunded for the current tax remaining.

    edit....if its got disabled tax forget the rebate and you'll need to re-apply for disabled tax class.
     
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