Suspension upgrade. (1 Viewer)

[Happy Jack]

Hi Funsters.
Later this year getting double leaf springs for our Ducato 130 MWB. They are needed !!
Probably get them from Sanderson springs.
Have seen somewhere that Bilstein B6 camper shocks are good quality. Any thoughts on that ?
Also where to get them for front and back.
Googled and not finding !!!
Also, uprated front springs to get and where from ?
Thanks,
Happy Jack.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Just a thought, not knowing anything about your motorhome but have you considered just replacing the original leaf springs and adding air assistance. Putting double leaf springs on will give a set ride height/firmness, that maybe alright but a single spring with air assist would give some element of adjustment.
Bilstein are a good make but I’ve never heard of ‘camper’ shocks, sounds like a way of increasing the price to me.

 

[Happy Jack]

Hi Hettie.
Existing springs are sitting low due to being fully loaded at the back. Thinking that double springs would restore ride height.
However, could do single with air assist. What air assist would you recommend. Not wanting to spend thousands.
Just want to restore ride height and improve handling but an element of adjustment would help on sloping sites of course.
Happy Jack.

 

[RustyRuss]

I put this on our Ducato chassis Autotrail Apache about 18 months ago. Outstanding piece of kit, smooths out the banging and crashing ride over the potholes, less swaying about as you pass wagons on the motorway, and allows a degree of levelling when on an uneven site. The company I bought from, this guy in my photo, have EXCELLENT after sales service, offering lots of advice when we had a tiny leak after it had been fitted. (Turned out to be a poorly cut and inserted piece of the pressurised pipe.) I highly recommend this kit.

 

[Happy Jack]

Hi Rusty. Had a look and looks good.
The van is 15 plate so not too old.
Could I just fit the air assist and not bother with double leaf springs !
Happy Jack.

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[Hettie's Crew]

Hi Hettie.
Existing springs are sitting low due to being fully loaded at the back. Thinking that double springs would restore ride height.
However, could do single with air assist. What air assist would you recommend. Not wanting to spend thousands.
Just want to restore ride height and improve handling but an element of adjustment would help on sloping sites of course.
Happy Jack.

I couldn’t recommend a kit as I’ve never had one fitted to a leaf spring set up. The reason I suggested it was because our Alko rear suspension was very low, on its weight limit and crashed about. We had air assist fitted and it sorted it out without making the rear end ‘over sprung’ and hard (Which double leaf springs may do)
The rear can now be raised a little if necessary and I can choose how much pressure I want to put in it according to the ride I want.

 

[RustyRuss]

Our van kept hitting the rubberised bump stops that were original equipment, LOTS of banging and crashing! You remove those and replace them with the air cushions that you can then pressurise. I run ours at about 2.5-3 bar. I have kept the original springs. I didn’t have a car jack hefty or long enough to lift the van and wheels off the road, so had it fitted by a tame garage. Cost about £150 to fit from memory, but it’s DEFINITELY DIYable if you’re handy with A spanner and A screw driver!! They also supply kits for Fords Mercs etc. Make sure you buy the kit that has the 12v heavy duty compressor in the bundle.

Cheers! Russ

 

[Happy Jack]

Thanks R
Hettie and Rusty.
May go for the air assist from the company you recommend Russ but perhaps the one with individual control for each bag.
Yes bump stops also getting hit and crashing about.
Can fit them myself. Was just thinking would double springs also be advisable to reduce load on the air assist. My thoughts were that doubles would restore normal ride height and take the now full load that the back end always has without causing too stiff a ride. Thoughts please.
Happy Jack.

 

[RustyRuss]

I think I instigated the individual control for each bag as that’s the system I ultimately had fitted. I wanted to be able to raise one side of the van higher than the other and have one of the front wheels on a ramp as I’m OCD about having the van perfectly level. I can let ALL the air out and the suspension rests at a point that was slightly below where the original bumps stops were. As I say I normally run at around 2.5-3bar and this corresponds to roughly the original ride height. I spoke to Marek, the supplier, and he said that max safe inflation is 5 bar, the difference between 2.5 and 5 bar is about 100mm at the rear wheels, the difference between 0 and 5 bar is around 180mm. The ride at 2.5-3bar is subjectively MUCH smoother that with the original bump stops in place, it’s also less susceptible to swaying/yawing in cross winds or when passing large vehicles like buses and wagons. Personally I don’t think you need new or uprated leaf springs, I have the original OEM springs still fitted. I bought my kit with the compressor, this lives under the driver’s (still swivellable) seat. The gauges sit in an aluminium nacelle that is supplied with the kit and are situated in the dashboard by the ignition key. The plumbing of the blue pressurised piping comes up through the floor at the junction of the rear of the drivers side front wheel arch and the coach work that Autotrail built. The joints for both sides are in this area too, this means that you only have a single piece of pipe to each bag to worry about underneath the van. The pipework to the gauges involves lifting the plastic driver’s side moulded step, there’s plenty of room under there to run them, then up behind the dashboard. When cutting the blue plastic pressurised pipe use a REALLY sharp knife and cut through it absolutely perpendicularly or you’ll encounter leaks like I did. (The original fitter was a bit clumsy!) The joints are diecast metal and are of the speedfit type, they are used in the pub industry for beer lines I think and are totally bullet proof. Since fitting and snagging I have had no issues with the system, it works perfectly every time, all the time. I sound like a salesman!! I have nothing to do with the company that supplied me, there are plenty of other suppliers who supply the same kit, I just found this guy to be super helpful and he obviously knew his product out side in, often a rarity on ebay!, Guarantee is 12 months I think. Think that’s all I can tell you buddy!

Cheers!

Russ

 

[Happy Jack]

Thanks Rusty. Your set up is what I will go for.
Thanks,
Happy Jack.

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

Same kit for me, I took the lazy route though and ran the airlines to the garage area, where I used a 6 wheel truck, tyre pall kit to monitor the pressures of the tyres and air bags on the little wireless screen velcro'd to the dashboard. I set mine at 3 bar home pressure, or there abouts. They rarely alter much. If we're really loaded I might add a tad, but on the French roads we seemed to be almost gliding along rather than rolling. I'm probably an average home mechanic, and it took me a half a day, taking my time, and double checking everything as I went.
PS. if fitting yourself I found fitting the valves to the bag, and measuring a generous amount of pipe allowed me to fit the schrader valves in the end of the pipe, this in turn meant I could compress the bags, then release them slowly when fitting making it so much easier.
Mike.

 

[Happy Jack]

Thanks Bouncy.
Happy Jack.

 

[Gromett]

I got heavy duty springs fitted on my Ducato from https://www.jones-springs.co.uk/

Made one hell of a difference. Literally the only downside was it raised the back end up quite a lot and made it so the shower didn't always drain

 

[Happy Jack]

Hi Grommet. See the Jones springs are £480 and no U bolts.
Sanderson are £380 and come with new U bolts.
Will see what info I can get to find out why he difference in cost.
Happy Jack.

 

[Gromett]

Hi Grommet. See the Jones springs are £480 and no U bolts.
Sanderson are £380 and come with new U bolts.
Will see what info I can get to find out why he difference in cost.
Happy Jack.

I don't know the difference or the price sorry. I was just letting you know I was very happy with the move from single to double leaf spring and letting you know who I bought from .
I didn't go for the airbag system as I don't like complexity if it can be avoided. Just something else expensive to go wrong in my view.

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[Happy Jack]

Agree with you Grommet, lots for me to think about.
Double springs would be more of less "fit and forget".
Happy Jack.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Agree with you Grommet, lots for me to think about.
Double springs would be more of less "fit and forget".
Happy Jack.

Like wise Sumo springs, and a doddle to change,

Fiat Ducato All models 2014 to Present Part #SSR-313-54 SumoSprings Rear Solo

SumoSprings are a patented suspension product designed to enhance load carrying ability, stabilize sway, and improve overall driver control and ride

rhodesvans.co.uk

Mike.

 

[bungy]

.

 

[bungy]

Like wise Sumo springs, and a doddle to change,

Fiat Ducato All models 2014 to Present Part #SSR-313-54 SumoSprings Rear Solo

SumoSprings are a patented suspension product designed to enhance load carrying ability, stabilize sway, and improve overall driver control and ride

rhodesvans.co.uk

Mike.

Been looking at these myself, any idea if there are any issues with mot and the like?

Looking to order through amazon from the US..£50 cheaper than in the uk for some strange reason, even with the import duty

 

[Gromett]

Like wise Sumo springs, and a doddle to change,

Fiat Ducato All models 2014 to Present Part #SSR-313-54 SumoSprings Rear Solo

SumoSprings are a patented suspension product designed to enhance load carrying ability, stabilize sway, and improve overall driver control and ride

rhodesvans.co.uk

Mike.

Hmm, don't like the look of those sorry. Seems to be a replacement for the Ducato style "Not" bump stops.

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

No, sorry I wasn't aware of these when I did my suspension upgrade or I might have opted for them, if the suspension specialist had given them the nod as being on a par with the air bags.
I wouldn't have thought there were any MOT issues, they simply replace the standard low tech rubber bump stops with something more sophisticated.
Others on the forum have fitted them so hopefully they'll be able to give a users perspective on them.
Do you need a weight upgrade, or is ride quality?, If the latter, have a look at the youtube of a van fitted with them, where the driver comments that there's a bit more banging with pot holes ect.
Mike.

 

[Happy Jack]

Think I would rather get double springs.
There is more weight to be supported after all.
Bumpstops whether low or high tech should be there for when "stopping" is needed?
Happy Jack.

 

[RustyRuss]

Same kit for me, I took the lazy route though and ran the airlines to the garage area, where I used a 6 wheel truck, tyre pall kit to monitor the pressures of the tyres and air bags on the little wireless screen velcro'd to the dashboard. I set mine at 3 bar home pressure, or there abouts. They rarely alter much. If we're really loaded I might add a tad, but on the French roads we seemed to be almost gliding along rather than rolling. I'm probably an average home mechanic, and it took me a half a day, taking my time, and double checking everything as I went.
PS. if fitting yourself I found fitting the valves to the bag, and measuring a generous amount of pipe allowed me to fit the schrader valves in the end of the pipe, this in turn meant I could compress the bags, then release them slowly when fitting making it so much easier.
Mike.

View attachment 760712 View attachment 760713

That‘s clever using the tyre pall valves. My Schrader valves are by the ignition key in the same nacelle as the pressure gauges so I can let air in and out when setting up the van on site. There is also a switch for the compressor in the nacelle.

 

[RustyRuss]

Think I would rather get double springs.
There is more weight to be supported after all.
Bumpstops whether low or high tech should be there for when "stopping" is needed?
Happy Jack.

The bump stops are replaced by the airbags and use the same mounting points and are effectively pneumatic bump stops. I don’t see the point of adding extra springs, the air bags perform the dual role of bump stop and spring. What got me started looking for them was observing a massive tipper truck emptying it’s load of sand on a construction site, as the sand came out of the back of the tipper the rear of the vehicle rose slightly, I noticed that the rear suspension wasn’t springs but airbags….. And so a short internet search began….. But hey it’s your vehicle!
As ever let us know how you get on.

Cheers! Russ

 

[Cush]

Hmm, don't like the look of those sorry. Seems to be a replacement for the Ducato style "Not" bump stops.

I’m about to fit some when I can get to the van. Hopefully fit and forget. Not found may reviews about use in the uk. Have a big following in US. I had air assist on the bongo. Made a big difference but was a bag that went inside the rest coil.

I understand that they are more advanced than the bump stop. They are rather pricey but if they do the job I expect I’ll be a happy bunny.

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[Happy Jack]

Must admit I like the idea of individually controllable air bags.
First to give an improved ride and sensible ride height but also adjustability when on sloping sites.
Have to weigh up the fit and forget advantage that double springs have and they restore correct ride height against the benefits that air bags bring (bags have more to go wrong).
Will though have a closer look at Sumo springs.
Happy Jack.

 

[BDM]

Have you ever weighed your van to check the actual axle weights?

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Have to weigh up the fit and forget advantage that double springs have

Certainly won’t be fit and forget if it ends up over sprung.

 

[Gromett]

I understand that they are more advanced than the bump stop.

On the Fiat Ducato there is a big argument about them not actually being bump stops as they are supposed to be an integrated part of the suspension. Also they are the bit that fails first on a Ducato (at least it was on mine).
But I am not criticising. Just not my cup of tea. I prefer a good solid, well understood leaf spring.

 

[Happy Jack]

BDM, no. Must get it done. It must be near weight limit.
Hettie, will the new spring not be compensating for the extra weight rather than overspringing the van?
Gromett, not sure but why are the OE bits called bump stops?
Happy Jack.

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