Sorn if on site for 3 months? (1 Viewer)

[Deleted34567]

Why would you spend thousands (mega thousands in some cases) on your 2nd home on wheels to maybe invalidate your insurance for the sake of 3 months tax?.... Just doesn't compute !

Does your insurance company insist that you pay "road tax" if your vehicle is not on the road?

Maybe you should name the insurer so we can avoid them.

No, my insurance company is a trade policy, covers everything up to an artic, in any place in Europe and for social and personal use..... including my MH..... So no worries there !

 

[Flamenca]

I actually agree with you about the myths but You obviously don't want to take the risk and neither do I, so anyone asking for advice should be given the facts, some of the advice appeared to be suck it and see which I think is dangerous these 2nd homes take a lot of getting In the first place

I continue to pay road tax on my MH for convenience because I do not travel to and from the continent on dates decided long in advance.
My car is a different matter and when it goes into storage I declare a SORN.
I have personal experience with DVLA regarding their lack of understanding of the law and SORNs. They sent me a fixed penalty notice a few years ago and I pointed out their misunderstanding and they promptly withdrew the notice.
Unfortunately, a lot of the myths about road tax tend to be repeated on forums.
The first advice I would give to everyone is actually read their insurance policy. I doubt whether many, if any, use the phrase "road legal" because it if far too vague.

 

[klaatu]

The only fact we have so far is that the DVLA interpretation of the law is that VED is required if a vehicle is taken out of the UK on a temporary basis, and SORN cannot be used. Everything else in this thread is supposition. Hopefully the first person to challenge this interpretation will let us know the outcome.

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[spitfire]

I give up ! It beggers belief that anyone who would pay thousands or tens of thousands on a motorhome would take the risk as I said before .

Just be wary of those who are on continental roads and on a SORN because there are many ! And don't get caught speeding as from Jan 2017 information will be exchanged with DVLA and what a surprise SORNed and on the road in Europe !!

I now withdraw from this ridiculous nonsense !

 

[swidy]

FACT this is what my insurance says (Your Safeguard Motorhome Insurance Policy provides the full cover shown in the schedule in any country in the territorial limits as long as:
• your motorhome is taxed, has a current MOT and is registered in the UK

 

[gus-lopez]

You would be surprised how many SORN when they leave the UK. Tour around Europe ( Johnny foreigner will never know ) and re tax just before their return . Check out a few registrations you see on DVLA site. Anyone can access. UK registered cars abroad too . Enough said !

If you sorn'd it before leaving the UK you 'd have a to be a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.
As I say to all the ****wits that run around here with the untaxed/sorn'd/no mot/no ins. /whatever,Brit scrappers . Don't run into me you'll have about 30secs to live the instant I discover it.

TBH I cannot see a problem with it, after all it is a; Stored Off Road Notification, which is what you will be if on a Site, as long as you do not use on the road (just in case) then I do not see a problem.
That is the benefit of the new system it is soooo easy and you get your refund (well I did) within 4 days. Then re tax it within seconds

The problem is that it is illegal. The sorn requires you to state where it is in the UK. Not abroad-

OK I see your point but, what about if you have a seasonal pitch and it is sorned and the same thing happens? it is still insured as long as it is not on the road.

It would be ok if the "seasonal pitch" is in the UK.

What's "Road Tax" got to do with Insurance? When not in the UK and parked permanently on private land UK/EU you don't require road tax,the vehicle is not in use so Sorn it if you wish.
Seems to me as long as you "desorn" and tax the vehicle before using it on the road in the UK/EU you are legal.
Please don't quite the DVLA the left hand doesn't know what the right hands doing, they write the legislation on the basis of everyone being in the UK and taking two weeks holiday a year and don't consider anyone travelling abroad for extended periods.

Quite simple. Nothing to do with the dvla. EU rules state that a vehicle has to be legal in the country in which it is registered to be able to be used in another EU state. Quite simple .tax,ins; mot. nothing less.
No the legislation is overruled by EU rules in 99% of cases.

The only fact we have so far is that the DVLA interpretation of the law is that VED is required if a vehicle is taken out of the UK on a temporary basis, and SORN cannot be used. Everything else in this thread is supposition. Hopefully the first person to challenge this interpretation will let us know the outcome.

No see above ,nothing to do with dvla it is an EU ruling that to be legal in another EU state it has to be legal in the country in which it is registered. You cannot sorn a UK vehicle in another country. Same as I cannot " baja" ( spanish version ) outside spain.

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[bartiny]

Just be wary of those who are on continental roads and on a SORN because there are many ! And don't get caught speeding as from Jan 2017 information will be exchanged with DVLA and what a surprise SORNed and on the road in Europe !!

The OP is not saying about driving abroad he is asking about being on a campsite for 3 months!!

 

[bartiny]

The sorn requires you to state where it is in the UK.

No it does not!!

 

[bartiny]

Correction........STATUTORY off road notification......nothing to do with storage, it could simply be parked off road on private land

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[swidy]

THIS WAS TAKEN FROM THE SORN APPLICATION FORM This declaration is valid until you re-tax, sell, permanently export or scrap the vehicle. A SORN cannot be made if the vehicle is taken out of the UK.

 

[klaatu]

No see above ,nothing to do with dvla it is an EU ruling that to be legal in another EU state it has to be legal in the country in which it is registered. You cannot sorn a UK vehicle in another country. Same as I cannot " baja" ( spanish version ) outside spain.

I didn't say that DVLA made the law, I said they interpreted the law (EU or otherwise). How do I make my UK-registered vehicle legal in the UK, and hence legal elsewhere in the EU, without complying with the DVLA interpretation of the law, and involving DVLA?

 

[busby]

If you sorn it out the country , which is illegal, if there is then a problem then the first thing insurance will check is that. & you'll be deep in it.
To legally use any vehicle out of its own country requires that it has to be legal within its own country. So for the UK it is tax,ins; & mot.



To legally use any vehicle out of its own country requires that it has to be legal within its own country. So for the UK it is tax,ins; & mot.

Let me assure you that many Trafico here know what SOrn is.

Cant see how it would matter if its on a site abroad. Only thing is if you had to claim on insurance for fire or a break in..BUSBY.

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[busby]

If you want to save money you may as well cancel your insurance, because it would be void anyway if not taxed. A vehicle must be in the uk for the sorn to be valid and a vehicle must be legal in its own country to be driven abroad. the tax people cover all bases.

You can still have your vehicle insured even when SORN. provided its in The UK..BUSBY.

 

[swidy]

Cant see how it would matter if its on a site abroad. Only thing is if you had to claim on insurance for fire or a break in..BUSBY.

that's why it matters

 

[gus-lopez]

The OP is not saying about driving abroad he is asking about being on a campsite for 3 months!!

What don't you understand about " it is illegal " ?

See here section INTERPRETATION 2,(1),"vehicle" .b. "Kept in Great Britain "

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/3025/made

No it does not!!

see here ; INTERPRETATION; 2, (1), "Required particulars " ,c.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/3025/made

I didn't say that DVLA made the law, I said they interpreted the law (EU or otherwise). How do I make my UK-registered vehicle legal in the UK, and hence legal elsewhere in the EU, without complying with the DVLA interpretation of the law, and involving DVLA?

You don't. You comply with the law
Here,
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/3025/made
Not with the dvla's version of it.

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[Jim]

Just be wary of those who are on continental roads and on a SORN because there are many !

How do you know this? Especially as now there is no tax disc.

Don't know why, but I had a 'thing' for tax discs in Europe. I couldn't look at a Brit van without looking at the tax disc. Yes I would see a few out of date, you'd see a few with nothing. But the vast majority would be displaying the correct disc.

 

[spitfire]

How do you know this? Especially as now there is no tax disc.

I wasn't going to reply to this thread any more but as it's you Jim !

Someone told us that was what he had done so curious to see if this was widespread started to note van and car numbers both here in France and last winter in Portugal . We were horrified to find how many were on SORN but on the road . Anyone can check on the DVLA site. Even a Bentley Continental in Portugal !

 

[klaatu]

You don't. You comply with the law

But I can't, so far as I am aware, do that without involving DVLA. So it is not "nothing to do with dvla" as you state. But this is not a helpful point on which to argue; I agree with everything that you say regarding the OP's question.

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[bartiny]

What don't you understand about " it is illegal " ?

1997 ?

see here ; INTERPRETATION; 2, (1), "Required particulars " ,c.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/3025/made

I can read normal size text thanks , again 1997

I am not saying you are wrong, I have 3 vehicles on sorn at different addresses, I will have to do some checking

 

[swidy]

I think this is becoming like a neighbours dispute we will soon have forgot the original post which was (Wondering if it is possible to Sorn the Motorhome if parked up on a site abroad for 3 months, has anyone done this ?) 2 questions 1st answer is NO and the 2nd answer is yes SIMPLES,

 

[Jaws]

If you want to save money you may as well cancel your insurance, because it would be void anyway if not taxed. A vehicle must be in the uk for the sorn to be valid and a vehicle must be legal in its own country to be driven abroad. the tax people cover all bases.

Actually that is not completely true.. In fact it is something of an urban myth perpetrated by the insurance companies.
An untaxed vehicle will not be insured for use on the road but will still retain the part of the insurance against theft etc.

Many many bikers are fair weather riders, and only pay for a VEL for 6 months of the year, but keep the bike insured all year in case of theft.
I am sure you will appreciate that a LOT of bikes go missing from garages up and down the land all year.. not just in the summer months.

Sooooo.. No tax.. illegal to use on road as no tax = no TP insurance in place
But no tax on a vehicle not on the road is still covered against other issues

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[Allanm]

Of course, everyone is forgetting the anpr cameras at the ports that will know when your vehicle leaves the country and when it comes back. Assuming they are working and linked to dvla, and probably insurance databases, they might even be able to check you haven't overstayed your period of insurance abroad!
Probably....

 

[swidy]

Actually that is not completely true.. In fact it is something of an urban myth perpetrated by the insurance companies.
An untaxed vehicle will not be insured for use on the road but will still retain the part of the insurance against theft etc.

Many many bikers are fair weather riders, and only pay for a VEL for 6 months of the year, but keep the bike insured all year in case of theft.
I am sure you will appreciate that a LOT of bikes go missing from garages up and down the land all year.. not just in the summer months.

Sooooo.. No tax.. illegal to use on road as no tax = no TP insurance in place
But no tax on a vehicle not on the road is still covered against other issues

Actually JAWS what I put is true his insurance would be void because the small print on the insurance policy says the vehicle MUST be TAXED and MOT`d when abroad

 

[Jaws]

There is in that small print a presumption the vehicle is used on the road.
There has been test cases ...

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[swidy]

There is in that small print a presumption the vehicle is used on the road.
There has been test cases ...

are you talking about the vehicle being abroad if so I would like to see the bit that shows the presumption, mine doesn't its quite clear that the vehicle must be taxed for the insurance policy to be valid. Im also a motorcyclist and fully understand good weather bikers and am right in believing when bikes are in garage for 6 months they are SORN, if this is the case they are still within the regulations, a motorhome on a site in Spain has to be taxed if the vehicle is UK registered.

 

[bartiny]

I would like to see the bit that shows the presumption, mine doesn't its quite clear that the vehicle must be taxed for the insurance policy to be valid.

I have just done a lot of reading on this, and what I have read is that the insurance company are obliged to cover 3rd party, so if you are fully comp and have an incident then they will (have to) cover 3rd party.

it is a mine field

 

[swidy]

I have just done a lot of reading on this, and what I have read is that the insurance company are obliged to cover 3rd party, so if you are fully comp and have an incident then they will (have to) cover 3rd party.

it is a mine field

3rd party is no good if your £50000 motorhome has just gone up in flames

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[bartiny]

3rd party is no good if your £50000 motorhome has just gone up in flames

Yes that is right, only covered third party if not taxed

 

[Jaws]

Swidy, you can do the research as easy as me...

 

[bartiny]

Wondering if it is possible to Sorn the Motorhome if parked up on a site abroad for 3 months, has anyone done this ?

Right, back to you very specific question

No, it is not possible to S.O.R.N a vehicle from abroad.

Why? I hear you ask , Well the D.V.L.A know that your vehicle as left the UK via the A.N.P.R. at points of exit.

You can only S.O.R.N. a vehicle if it is in the UK.

Now if you ask do I need road tax, then that is a whole different answer

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