Pubs With Camping

Discussion in 'UK Touring' started by Janine, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. Janine

    Janine Funster Life Member

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  2. Janine

    Janine Funster Life Member

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  3. chaser

    chaser Funster

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    Plus as many have said before, if you just ask at some pubs they will let you stop whether they are on any list or not.
    But the one big thing to think about, is don't have anything to drink, or you could be done for drunk in charge, you can even get done for sitting in your car on a pub car park if over the limit whether you intend moving or not.
     
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  4. mariner

    mariner Funster Life Member

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    Not in a Motorhome, if you are camping, as has been discussed, on many occasions.


    :cooler:
     
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  5. chaser

    chaser Funster

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    Sorry but you are not camping, but parking as in lay-bys.
    Most of these pubs don't have camping licences, not knocking it, done it myself, but it's right, suppose it depends a bit where you are , say in an orchad or something but definitely if it's just a park at the side of the road.
     
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  6. Viennese

    Viennese Funster

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  7. Janine

    Janine Funster Life Member

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    Not sure how old or definitive this article is:

    Alcohol and sleeping in your motorhome

    We ask Philip Somarakis, an expert motoring lawyer with Davenport Lyons, what the legal implications are of parking into a pub car park, having a few alcoholic drinks and then getting back into your motorhome to sleep it off.

    Driving one’s “home” to the public house is a pretty good idea to avoid drinking and driving as you now have a pub on your doorstep. Motorhome owners should however be cautious about the risks of being "drunk in charge" of a motorhome if they are staying overnight in the car park.


    If you are drunk “in charge” of your motorhome on a road or “public place” you can be arrested by the police and could lose your licence if convicted. This article looks at whether a parking area for motorhomes next to a pub amounts to a “public place” and also what being “in charge” of a motorhome means. We also focus on the scenario where you have evening dinner and drinks.


    Pub car parks and opening hours

    A pub car park is a “public place” during opening times because there is an implied invitation to the public to drive in and park up to use the pub. The position may change after the pub has closed. In a 1974 court case a person was found not guilty because the prosecution had failed to prove that the invitation to the public to use the car park next to the pub extended one hour after closing time (the time when the police had come to the car park and found the person at the wheel). However, each case is different; for example a pub adjacent to a Premier Inn with 24-hour reception facilities could mean the car park may be viewed as remaining a public place at all times.


    Segregatedparking during opening hours

    Even where there is apparent segregation, by some control system designed to separate motorhome drivers from other patrons, a reserved parking area may still be regarded as a public place. The law is not clear, but it would appear that at least during the day when the pub is open, imposing a control system which only allows motorhome owners into a segregated area would not necessarily prevent that area from being a public place – because such owners would still be regarded as “the public”.

    Conversely, if that area was limited to motorhome owners from a defined association, there were barriers/notices and a control system clearly in place then it would be more likely to be regarded as a private place. However a parking place saying “reserved” on it would not do.

    Where the law is clear is that if there was a blanket restriction on anyone turning up after the pub has closed and parking up, it is obvious that at that time of night the car park would ordinarily be regarded as private and not a public place.


    Drunk in charge of a motorhome

    There is no definitive answer to what amounts to being "in charge." If you are the owner or in possession of the vehicle or have recently driven it you will be “in charge”, unless you have put the vehicle in the charge of someone else.

    Control over the keys is a good indication of being in charge but is not conclusive.

    However that does not mean that an owner is continuously in charge because, in some cases, control of the vehicle has clearly ceased.

    The courts accept that an owner is not in control where he was a great distance from the vehicle and there was no realistic possibility of his resuming actual control whilst unfit/over the limit.

    Whilst that may suggest that when in the pub “control” by the owner has ceased, the courts may see it differently because of the intention to return to the vehicle at the end of the evening.




    Will the police bother you?

    Anyone charged with “drunk in charge” of a motorhome has a defence in law. They have to prove that there was “no likelihood of them driving whilst over the prescribed limit”. This can be a complicated process and involves an assessment of what your alcohol levels would be at the time you did intend to drive. Normally this involves having to use a forensic expert to calculate alcohol levels

    Here’s an example. You’ve had a couple of pints and shared a bottle of wine with your wife. It’s 11pm and the pub closes in 20 minutes. You are both tired. You suspect you are both over the limit but you don’t have to worry because you are not going anywhere and are not setting off until the morning and after breakfast. As you leave the pub, you see parked up next to your motorhome, a police car. After all, pub car parks are obvious targets by the police for suspected drink drivers.

    What do you do? Wait for them to leave or for the pub to close so the car park is no longer a “public place” perhaps? Or stride forth? You might arouse suspicion if they catch you doing a U turn and going back into the pub. If you stride forth yes they may get out and speak to you but one would expect most police officers to take a sensible view here. You are not going to drive off. You are not going to sit in the driver’s seat and fiddle with the controls. If they do ask you what you are doing you will tell them that you are retiring to bed.

    All the police want to do is to ensure that drink drivers are apprehended. However, if you have had a lot of alcohol, are clearly drunk and are intending to drive the following morning, you are placing yourself at greater risk here. You will be more of a concern to them, either that they think you are about to drive over the limit, or after your explanation, that you intend to the morning after when alcohol will still be in your system.

    The police do charge people with being drunk in charge but normally these tend to be people found slumped behind the wheel of a car in the street outside a house (usually a result of a domestic dispute). Clearly they arouse suspicion and as sleeping in a car is not particularly comfortable, will increase the likelihood of that person driving off (whilst over the limit).

    If you drive to a pub with the intention of parking up and drinking, where the land in question is not truly “private” and where you know eventually you will be driving back at some point, you need to bear in mind that the police will assume you remain in control of that vehicle and to them, could drive it at any point.

    So consider where you are parking up, whether you might under any circumstances have to move the vehicle and bear in mind it is not uncommon for police to occasionally stop outside pubs. Have a thought to how much you are drinking particularly if you do intend to drive the following day.



    Before you start drinking alcohol, you must:

    • Make sure your motorhome is already parked up for the night. Do not take the risk of having to move it later to the right place, even if it's just a short distance within the car park or into an adjacent field

    • Ensure your motorhome is not causing an obstruction. You should always consider whether you might be asked to move it later so

    • Have some evidence if possible of the duration of your stay, so that you could prove your intention to sleep overnight in the car park

    After you've had a drink of alcohol, you must:

    • Never start up the engine in your motorhome

    • Never place the key in the ignition

    • Never sit behind the steering wheel or in the driver’s seat if it is facing forwards
    Any or all of the above could be taken as indicators that you may be contemplating driving the motorhome and are more likely to attract attention from the police.
    And always remember that if you've had a lot of alcohol to drink, you may still be over the legal limit the following morning.





    The police’s view

    A spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) said:

    “Regardless of whether you are a driver of a campervan or any other kind of vehicle, the rules of Highway Code and the laws around drink driving remain the same.
    “Drivers should not attempt to move any vehicle under the influence of alcohol or drugs and should always ensure they are parked in a safe and secure location.
    “If a person is in charge of a motor vehicle on a road or other public place after consuming excess alcohol then that person is guilty of an offence unless they can prove at the time of the alleged offence the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of their driving the vehicle.
    “The advice from the police is clear. Do not drink and drive or put yourself or anyone else at risk.”


    More information

    The rules related to being in charge of a vehicle and alcohol are covered by The Road Traffic Act 1988. You can view it here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/4
     
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  8. wivvy's dad

    wivvy's dad Read Only Funster

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    Anyone seen a policeman lately??
     
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  9. cliffandger

    cliffandger Funster Life Member

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    The Three Horseshoes, Little Cowarne, Bromyard - lovely pub, top quality restaurant, and every time we have eaten there the really friendly landlord has waived the pitch fee (only a fiver anyway). He has a CL type site at the back of his carpark - really beautiful.
     
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