Panel van minefield which one. (1 Viewer)

[CazPaul]

Our van sale has fallen through so looking again at panel van conversions.

Its a bit of a minefield, there are loads of converters out there, hundreds, all seem to use a variety of build methods.
Insulation. You see everything from rockwool, loft insulation, double bubble, camping mats, kingspan, full spray foam etc etc. Murvi for example use isover spacesaver 50mm insulation, in reality this is just thin loft insulation. Which is best?

Winterisation, need at least the fresh tank inside, both underslung are not for me. Even those that advertise as heated use those 12 v things that are useless unless on EHU.

Which panel vans are best for winterisation, want a 6 metre one although could stretch to the 6.36 metre one. Rear transverse double, build quality important. Viewed a couple of Globecars but I got the impression they are made in a factory conveyor belt as quickly as possible. Not impressed although different models may be made much better and I think we have only looked at the bottom of the range ones.

So rear transverse, gas heating, large batteries, good insulation, winterisation fresh inside, waste with a pipe running down from the blown air straight to the waste tank like our other Hymers, decent shower without a £29.99 plastic shower tray.

Does what I,m looking for exist? Give me some ideas please.

Don't want much do I?

 

[Mikeco]

Probably does not exist, the nearest thing to that description is my own conversion except that the tanks are underslung. I know that my insulation is superior to any converters. You may have to compromise or buy a van and get one of the smaller convertor to build it to your spec.

 

[2657]

Depends on your budget, everything is possible

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[Mikeco]

Why not go and see Devon Conversions, they are somewhere near you.

 

[Cal54]

Get one done to your own spec. @Terry, fellow Funster does a brilliant job of van conversions and with the right budget you will get what you want.

 

[CWH]

Have you looked at WildAx Europa and Aurora? Admittedly underslung tanks but with top-rated insulation test (phone & talk to Duncan or Danny, they'll happily explain all)
https://www.wildaxmotorhomes.com/

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[Langtoftlad]

Have you looked at WildAx Europa and Aurora?Admittedly underslung tanks but with top-rated insulation test (phone & talk to Duncam or Danny, they'll happily explain all)
https://www.wildaxmotorhomes.com/

I'm getting a WildAx Aurora, seems to tick most of your boxes.

 

[CazPaul]

Probably does not exist, the nearest thing to that description is my own conversion except that the tanks are underslung. I know that my insulation is superior to any converters. You may have to compromise or buy a van and get one of the smaller convertor to build it to your spec.

What you got Mike?

What insulation is it?

Paul.

 

[jezport]

We have the Globecar Campscout Revolution. The insulation may not be what you would fit yourself but the truma heating does keep it warm, there are no breezy spots near the cab like on other models.
Loft type insulation holds water so should be avoided.

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[CazPaul]

Why not go and see Devon Conversions, they are somewhere near you.

I have been, the owner Peter Gowland is not very obliging, you go with what you want and come away with what he wants you to have. Devon are a stones throw from my workplace so it would be really handy(Ferryhill, County Durham)

 

[CazPaul]

Is kingspan insulation any good? I spoke to one converter yesterday, RP motorhomes of Harrogate who use it.

 

[Mikeco]

What you got Mike?

What insulation is it?

Paul.

The whole build took me 3 months but doing the insulation took the first 4 weeks working 8 hours a day, it was done mainly using Cellotex board insulation but also sheep's wool and several cans of gun grade foam which went into all of the wall and roof ribs. Foil backed bubble wrap with taped joints was also used over the insulation. I also have 6mm ply plus 3mm finished ply boarding on walls and ceiling and 12mm 9m ply on insulation on the floor.

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[CazPaul]

Sounds great that Mike. Wonderful job. Did you research and come up with the Celotex idea as being the best.

 

[Infinity31]

I suppose there are pros and cons to all the insulation materials you mention, but non of them will make a PV well insulated imo. They will make it as well insulated as the constraints of a panel van will allow, but you'll still have massive thermal bridges on the large slider and the rear barn doors, and minimal underfloor insulation. That's just one of the compromises of PVC's you have to accept.

Somehow I don't think what're looking for does exist and it's that old thorn in the side 'compromise' again. I looked at 6m PVC in depth last year, I was impressed with http://www.rpmotorhomes.co.uk/models-rpmotorhomes.php being a small company there maybe room to customise to your spec.

I won't go into the in's and out's of all the vans we looked at, everyone has there own wish list and many things are subjective. We liked the Westfalia Columbus 600D the most, it has most of what we wanted, right layout, solid build and felt right.

 

[Mikeco]

Sounds great that Mike. Wonderful job. Did you research and come up with the Celotex idea as being the best.

I joined SBMCC to find out which was the best to use, and, as in my early career in the building industry I worked on the tools I wanted something that I could do.
The picture shows the first layer of bubble wrap after the ribs had been filled and before any Cellotex or Kingspan insulation was used.

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[Mikeco]

I suppose there are pros and cons to all the insulation materials you mention, but non of them will make a PV well insulated imo. They will make it as well insulated as the constraints of a panel van will allow, but you'll still have massive thermal bridges on the large slider and the rear barn doors, and minimal underfloor insulation. That's just one of the compromises of PVC's you have to accept.

Somehow I don't think what're looking for does exist and it's that old thorn in the side 'compromise' again. I looked at 6m PVC in depth last year, I was impressed with http://www.rpmotorhomes.co.uk/models-rpmotorhomes.php being a small company there maybe room to customise to your spec.

I won't go into the in's and out's of all the vans we looked at, everyone has there own wish list and many things are subjective. We liked the Westfalia Columbus 600D the most, it has most of what we wanted, right layout, solid build and felt right.

Floor insulation is easy, 25mm Cellotex with 9mm ply on top, sheep's wool inside door panels and so on.

 

[Mikeco]

Forgot to say that my rear doors are segregated from the rear

 

[jezport]

To be honest as long as the insulation is an acceptable level the cab, the rear doors and the side loader will lose some heat but as long as you have decently distributed heating then I wouldn't worry too much. The layout and quality is more important.

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[CazPaul]

I joined SBMCC to find out which was the best to use, and, as in my early career in the building industry I worked on the tools I wanted something that I could do.
The picture shows the first layer of bubble wrap after the ribs had been filled and before any Cellotex or Kingspan insulation was used.View attachment 160122

Really impressed Mike with that, when I spoke to RP I got the impression that they just stuck the kingspan straight to the walls, I am going to see them in the next few weeks as straight down the A1 from us in Barnard Castle. They use triple glazed windows and have some good ideas.

 

[Mikeco]

Is kingspan insulation any good? I spoke to one converter yesterday, RP motorhomes of Harrogate who use it.

Yes Kingspan or Cellotex, both foil faced both sides, I used 25mm thick.

 

[CazPaul]

Yes Kingspan or Cellotex, both foil faced both sides, I used 25mm thick.

Then did you use sheeps wool for the rear doors and sliding door? Have you took any of the panels off to check the condition of the sheeps wool after a winter or 2.

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[Mikeco]

Really impressed Mike with that, when I spoke to RP I got the impression that they just stuck the kingspan straight to the walls, I am going to see them in the next few weeks as straight down the A1 from us in Barnard Castle. They use triple glazed windows and have some good ideas.

You have to prevent any warm air making contact with any metal surface which could be cold to prevent any chance of condensation, that's why the first layer of bubble wrap is glued to the outside van wall with the joints taped, I suspect that many converters don't fill the ribs but I did with the gun grade foam.

 

[Mikeco]

Then did you use sheeps wool for the rear doors and sliding door? Have you took any of the panels off to check the condition of the sheeps wool after a winter or 2.

I used sheep's wool in the part of the doors that had any of the locking mechanism or cables, in clear areas I used Cellotex, the final layer was the bubble wrap. I have checked some areas such as the doors and they are fine.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

With the insulation the important thing to remember is CONDENSATION, If the internal warm air CAN get to the outside cold skin then there WILL be condensation on that metal surface which WILL drain down into the recesses of the bottom of the panel and sit there gnawing away at your steel work. You can see this with ordinary cargo vans where the doors and roof edges rot out in super quick time if it is allowed to get warm inside. The insulation must be continuous and sealed from the inside. I do not know how good the converters actually are in doing this, but if normal commercial considerations apply the answer is NOT VERY. It will be as minimal as they can get away with. That is the big worry about using steel bodied vans as a base because in normal use they have a short well thrashed life of high mileage and little care ending up as hacks for a builder or the like.. They are not painted and protected any more than is necessary to get them through the first few years. Sprinters and Transits all look like rot boxes after a few years of a working life, especially the door bottoms and seams of the sides. Steel is not a long lifed material. It needs love at the beginning to get a long and fruitful life. Chose you converter well, and visit them at the premises to see what they do to the bare van before the shiny bit go in. Watch the weights too.

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[Mikeco]

Early days showing the filled ribs

 

[CazPaul]

With the insulation the important thing to remember is CONDENSATION, If the internal warm air CAN get to the outside cold skin then there WILL be condensation on that metal surface which WILL drain down into the recesses of the bottom of the panel and sit there gnawing away at your steel work. You can see this with ordinary cargo vans where the doors and roof edges rot out in super quick time if it is allowed to get warm inside. The insulation must be continuous and sealed from the inside. I do not know how good the converters actually are in doing this, but if normal commercial considerations apply the answer is NOT VERY. It will be as minimal as they can get away with. That is the big worry about using steel bodied vans as a base because in normal use they have a short well thrashed life of high mileage and little care ending up as hacks for a builder or the like.. They are not painted and protected any more than is necessary to get them through the first few years. Sprinters and Transits all look like rot boxes after a few years of a working life, especially the door bottoms and seams of the sides. Steel is not a long lifed material. It needs love at the beginning to get a long and fruitful life. Chose you converter well, and visit them at the premises to see what they do to the bare van before the shiny bit go in. Watch the weights too.

Yes you are correct but a well built/designed/insulated panel van is a lot less hassle/trouble than an A class. Easier to repair, less chance of leaks, maintenance easier, access to engine easy for battery change, service, repair, windscreen easy and cheap, no double glazed 2 grand cab side windows, I could go on.

A panel van it is, but you are right choose your converter carefully.

 

[Kingham]

I have been, the owner Peter Gowland is not very obliging, you go with whatDevon are a stones throw from my workplace so it would be really handy(Ferryhill, County Durham)

I didn't know they were so close and explains why I see so many around, they're less than 3 miles from my house

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[Chris51]

Best start is to strip out panelwipe stick on your battens/ fit windows etc (NO screws to touch van exterior ) and get spray foamed for best results-thats the way I went and am very pleased with results .

 

[CazPaul]

Best start is to strip out panelwipe stick on your battens/ fit windows etc (NO screws to touch van exterior ) and get spray foamed for best results-thats the way I went and am very pleased with results .

Did you use a firm to spray foam it or buy the stuff and do it yourself.

 

[Tea Bag]

Hi.
We have a Wildax Europa,it is well insulated,as are the underslung tanks,(It has a serious Insulation rating) and he does convert customers own vans. Love ours,and may have another soon,thats how good it is. Its now 3 years old,we are over here on holiday in Derbyshire,woke up tuesday morning,water on the floor near the sink,dried it all up,but could not find where it was coming from,rang Elland and explained,got put on to a super chap called Danny he asked where were we,i said derbyshire,his answer was. "Thats only an hour and a half away,bring it up now" We sat in Morrisons cafe,me with a plate of bacon and liver,first wife with Lamb shank,followed by bread and butter pudding and apple pie,while watching "Diamond Geezer" being fettled up...result.Go and have a look,you ahve nothing to lose...
Tea Bag

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