Our first and I hope the last BREAKDOWN (1 Viewer)

[Geoff and Fiona]

Fiat Ducato Burstner 22,000 miles

Tuesday and pottering through Dumfries on a few days away. Fiona driving, when she started having trouble changing gear on way into town. So we have to coast to a stop, our first worry with limited forward momentum just past a bend in the middle of a village. So half on and off the pavement.
No clutch, pedal moves but cannot select gear when engine is running.

Warning triangle placed and breakdown called, truck arrives within 90 minutes and towed back to breakdown depot. Loan car supplied and MH is delivered next day to the garage in Bury where we have it serviced and loan car taken collected.

Clutch replacement £900 gasp.

Why a commercial vehicle based MH should suffer a clutch failure at 22,000 beggars belief
But it appears not an uncommon occurrence.

On the plus the breakdown service (caravan guard) worked very well. And as Fiona pointed out we saved about £20 in fuel on the return trip. whoopee do

 

[funflair]

I gave you the like for the last paragraph.

The rest is not so good, 22,000 miles is not long enough for a clutch you are right.

What age is it.

Martin

 

[Johnnyb]

The clutch should normally last much longer than that, even vans used in heavy stop start city driving wouldn't normally fail that early. How did the clutch pedal feel before, was it biting very high or low? You don't sit holding the van on the clutch at junctions or traffic light etc?

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[buttons]

Not the first Fiat clutch to fail with low mileage this week.

 

[Geoff and Fiona]

Happened suddenly. Clutch pedal operated but felt light to me. Could not engage gear when engine running. Manage to engage gear with engine stopped and clutch in.
Turned key and van lurched and may have pulled away but I knew I could not change gear so just lurched us a little further onto the pavement. Trying to start in gear would certainly strain the starter system.

The there was no clutch fluid leaking under the van and the level was OK and not dropping. Should know more next week and I will let you all know what actually failed.

 

[Geoff and Fiona]

"The clutch should normally last much longer than that, even vans used in heavy stop start city driving wouldn't normally fail that early. How did the clutch pedal feel before, was it biting very high or low? You don't sit holding the van on the clutch at junctions or traffic light etc?"

I think the clutch operation felt "normal" biting about mid position. I certainly don't sit holding the clutch in at junctions etc and I am sure Fiona does not.
I tend to be a bit paranoid with vehicle mechanics years ago having owned enough old British motorbikes and when on the road as a service engineer several Austin Montego estate cars, the case being not will it start to fall apart, but when will it start to fall apart, so I am sure I would have noticed a deterioration in operation.

The MH had other owners so I don't know how it was driven before.

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[funflair]

Hi @Geoff and Fiona As you suggest above, it seems like something has failed rather than wearing out which should be more gradual. I asked about age as some people have had financial assistance from Fiat with premature failures outside of warranty period.

Martin

 

[EX51SSS]

Not the first Fiat clutch to fail with low mileage this week.

Let's hope we get a quick end to this week so no more early clutch failures on Fiat's

No, it's no joke having clutches go especially at that mileage.

 

[androidGB]

Certainly sounds like part of the clutch operating system rather than the clutch plates itself.

You say there was no fluid under the van and no loss of clutch fluid, so wonder if it was the master cylinder failing, that would give you those symptoms, either that or the operating mechanism within the clutch itself.

Andrewe

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[Johnnyb]

The only similar failure I've experienced was when one of the centre springs on the clutch friction plate failed. I was pulling away from a junction when the car lurched forward and stalled, as though I'd released the clutch too quickly. I started the car but couldn't select any gears with the engine running. When we removed the clutch it was obvious what the problem was, one of the springs had completely torn from the clutch plate.

 

[buttons]

I guess the other question to ask is has the engine been modified/mapped..

 

[Boater]

Mine failed the day i was part exchanging it halfway to the dealers drove home had quotes for £900 van was six years old 11,000 miles slave cylinder failed apparently it's a partial engine gearbox removal the dealer took it as it was so in a weard sort of way i was lucky

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[tonyidle]

Sitting with the pedal held down is now taught as normal procedure at traffic lights etc. The original reason for not doing so was the use of graphite release bearings (last used in the '60s) which wore dramatically if abused. All robotised manuals (a lot of so-called automatics these days) have the clutch held down whenever the engine is running with the vehicle stationary. From this we may assume that release bearing wear is no longer an issue and provided the clutch is fully disengaged it isn't affected either. It has taken me a very long time to get over my paranoia about holding down the clutch but I have, in light of the above, managed it.

 

[Geoff and Fiona]

Conclusion

Well we will probably never know how it happened as there were two previous owners of our MH.

The complete clutch, flywheel and slave cylinder have been replaced the cost getting close to £2000

The clutch material had started to delaminate the mechanic reported that the clutch housing showed signs of high heat, there where also signs of excessive heat on the fly wheel.

Whilst we have been driving the van we had no signs of the clutch slipping, there had been an occasional smell when slowly reversing onto the drive, which apparently is not uncommon.
The clutch had failed suddenly due to failure of the slave cylinder.

I am not knowledgeable in these types of clutch but I am considering the following explanation.

A previous owner slipped the clutch to such a degree that the housing got hot and started to delaminate the friction material. This caused heat damage to the slave cylinder. The clutch continued to work and as we are both careful drivers and have not been climbing steep roads the clutch worked ok. The slave cylinder failed and we lost use of the clutch.

what do you think?

 

[Geoff and Fiona]

Now I think I will administer a medicinal quantity of wine and chocolate, for the shock of course.

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[funflair]

The occasional smell when reversing onto the drive is the clutch getting hot, wether this came from a problem with the previous owner I guess we will never know. As for the slave cylinder possibly it just failed because it was that time.

Anyway as long as you survive the wine and chocolates you seem to be sorted now

Martin

 

[pappajohn]

Conclusion

Well we will probably never know how it happened as there were two previous owners of our MH.

The complete clutch, flywheel and slave cylinder have been replaced the cost getting close to £2000

The clutch material had started to delaminate the mechanic reported that the clutch housing showed signs of high heat, there where also signs of excessive heat on the fly wheel.

Whilst we have been driving the van we had no signs of the clutch slipping, there had been an occasional smell when slowly reversing onto the drive, which apparently is not uncommon.
The clutch had failed suddenly due to failure of the slave cylinder.

I am not knowledgeable in these types of clutch but I am considering the following explanation.

A previous owner slipped the clutch to such a degree that the housing got hot and started to delaminate the friction material. This caused heat damage to the slave cylinder. The clutch continued to work and as we are both careful drivers and have not been climbing steep roads the clutch worked ok. The slave cylinder failed and we lost use of the clutch.

what do you think?

It wouldn't need excessive heat to damage the slave cylinder.
Possibly just the piston seal had failed in the same way a brake wheel cylinder can......but that would expel fluid into the bell housing.
Maybe not enough in such a short time to visibly drip out of the housing though...there's a lot of dust in there to absorb it.