Niesmann Bischoff advice

Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by Seppi, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. Seppi

    Seppi Read Only Funster

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    Hi there. I'm new on here and haven't had a motorhome for about 12 years.
    Currently looking at buying an A class and have seen this one on eBay, (can't seem to post a direct link but item number is: 290781153331) does anyone have any advice on buying a N&B or information/history about/on this particular Flair?
    Any help greatly appreciated.
    Thanks
    Seppi
     
  2. jonandshell

    jonandshell Funster

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    Hi Seppi

    Welcome to MH Fun!:welcome:

    Neissman + Bischoff are a premium German brand. Most of the examples we have looked at have been in remarkably good condition for their age.

    We haven't any ownership experience, but if we were to change our van, a Niessman + Bischoff Flair would be close to the top of our wishlist!

    Hopefully a happy owner will be along to give you buying tips and ownership experience soon!:thumb:
     
  3. Kay

    Kay Read Only Funster

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    Link - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290781153331?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sadis%3D200%26_ipg%3D50%26LH_SALE_CURRENCY%3D0%26_sacat%3D0%26_samihi%3D%26_samilow%3D%26_fpos%3D%26_ftrt%3D901%26_oexkw%3D%26_udhi%3D%26_sabdhi%3D%26_ftrv%3D1%26_udlo%3D%26_sabdlo%3D%26_adv%3D1%26_sop%3D12%26_dmd%3D1%26_okw%3D%26_nkw%3D290781153331%26_rdc%3D1

    I have no idea on value or model but I'm not that far away from where it is so if you do buy you are welcome to pitch for a few days on my drive to test it all out on hook up.

    I recently sold my last M/H and took a drop on price, a bird in hand... so I imagine in the current economic climate a cash buyer for a M/H, especailly a left hand drive, is a welcome sight and you may get a good deal with a lower offer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
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  4. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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    I own an Arto 69G, I bought in March this year. As has been said build quality is supurb and if you are looking for a mh in which you could live/travel for long periods it is a great mh with plenty of room.
    Remember this is going to weigh 3.5 or 3.8 tonne so fuel economy is not going to be very high. With sensible motoring I have been able to get 23 mpg out of mine, but this will vary.
    On a vehicle of this age check for water ingress around the botom of the garage door, and in the widscreen area as they have been known to leak on the roof joint and if a replacement windscreen has not been properly fitted through the windscreen seals.
    Also check for condensation in between the double glazed windows on the driver and passenger side. After this length of time the seals are likely to have gone and it could affect your view in your mirrors. The only proper cure is a replacement window and at £2500 per window it is an expensive job.
    Check also for rear bumper damage as these too are expensive to replace.
    Also check damage on the locker catches as these snap after time.

    Travelworld is only one supplier of N+B parts in the UK and consequently with no competition parts are very expensive; especially as N+B will not supply parts direct to you or any other trader, but they are available in Polz in Germany.

    All this sounds a bit negative but it is not meant to be, look for these areas and use them as a lever for bargaining. This vehicle hase been offered for sale before and in my opinion is about £2K over priced. (Especially as it is a private sale and will carry no guarentee) If everything is OK and it is the vehicle you want you will struggle to find better, but bargain hard.

    As a final thought - the vendor is struggling to sell this vehicle and so will you so make sure it is the vehicle you want - it could cost you to change your mind.

    Norman
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
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  5. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Good advice Norman :thumb:.
     
  6. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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  7. Seppi

    Seppi Read Only Funster

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    Thanks

    Thanks you very much for your reply Norman. I will ask all those questions and hope all is ok with it. It is tricky as we are in Scotland so it's not just a quick trip to view it, I want to be pretty sure before I book flights that I'll be driving back in it. We've already seen two motorhomes (a N&B Flair and a Frankia both Tag axles) both had damp, one was was tatty and one smelled of damp and stale smoke inside. It's a real let down and waste of time when you spend a day travelling to see one and it's not as described. I will phone the owners today and see what they say.
    Thanks again,
    Seppi
     
  8. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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    Seppi,
    Have just re read the advert, unless I have misread the advert I don't see mention of MOT or tax. If you have not already noticed this it would be as well to ask, you want 12 months MOT and you must be able to test drive it, so if no tax, no test drive, walk away or don't go.

    Norman
     
  9. Seppi

    Seppi Read Only Funster

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    Tax & MoT

    Thanks again Norman.
    I've spoken to them today and it has T&T until November, but they will put it through an MoT before I go to look at it.
    Why don't N&B's seem to sell very well?
     
  10. Griffs

    Griffs Funster

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    Hi.

    We were looking for a Hymer a couple of months ago and popped in to South Hereford motorhomes at 4.40pm on a Saturday afternoon ,they had a 2005 Arto for sale the wife loved it and by 5pm it was ours.

    I dont know why n&b,s are slow to sell but we are more than happy with ours, the finishes are top quality and the size is very good for short stayes or long term .

    The after sales with South Hereford is very good to.
     
  11. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    The simple answer to why N&Bs don't sell well in the UK is by the same reason FFBs, RMBs, Bocklet, Arnold and many more German quality vans don't sell here. We in the UK are relative newcomers to motorhoming compared with Germany. They have been building quality motorhomes for donkeys years and are masters at it. We in the UK would never have paid the price for the quality German vans years ago as motorhoming here was always a poor mans holiday, associated with Bedford CFs and mk1 Transits that leaked like sieves when it rained. There was never any dealers of quality vans in the UK and there was only one official Hymer dealer who quite frankly wasn't bothered if you bought one or not as he had the monopoly.
     
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  12. TheDogMan

    TheDogMan Funster

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    may be a top quality brand but its too expensive, why is the sat dish German only has it just been imported
     
  13. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Maybe he doesn't know how to alter the home satellite from Astra 1 to Astra 2. The Germans have been on digital for some years now but there satellite systems tune to Astra 1 and we tune to Astra 2. Its a couple of minutes job for the initiated.
     
  14. Soaringman

    Soaringman Funster

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    Well as a newbie I can only post my experience so far.
    6 months ago we bought a 2 year old N&B Arto 74 with 9,000 miles on the clock.
    3 litre fiat diesel tag axle 5 ton beast.

    We negotiated a 12 month warranty with the dealer (Travelword of Telford) glad we did.
    Problems so far

    1. Replaced shower tray (split)
    2. Replaced broken roof window
    3. Repaired faulty rear lights ( 2 trips to dealer required 300 miles round trip each)

    4. Replaced throttle control sensor (fiat dealer)
    5. Replaced McPherson shock absorber (8 hours labour) main fiat dealer.

    All of these problems I am pleased to say we're sorted out under warranty, the fuel bill however for the various trips to and from the dealer and fiat dealer is probably in access of £300!!

    All of this said, we love our Motorhome, we have done about 5,000 miles in 6 months and have loved it. The Arto drives beautifully and gives about 23 mpg at 60 mph it feels well made and solid, lots of storage and well equipped.
    We are going to Scotland tomorrow !! Cairngorm gliding club at feshibridge near Kingussie for a week if you are near you are welcome to come and have a chat. We have not yet had the pleasure of meeting with any funsters yet but are looking forward to it
    Martin & sue
     
  15. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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  16. normanandsue

    normanandsue Funster

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    Driving License

    Seppi,
    I am sure you will have thought of this but as you still have a young family it may have escaped your notice. Do you have a C1 driving license; if you passed your driving test after 1997 you will not automatically be legally permitted to drive an A class.
    Sorry of I am telling you something you already know, but it could be a very expensive mistake if you are not licensed to drive it.

    Good hunting

    Norman
     
  17. slobadoberbob

    slobadoberbob Read Only Funster

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    I think you sum up the issue well

    I think you sum up what a lot of us know already. What you have here in the UK is often a poor substitute.

    I went to the Glendale factory in Havant over 25 years back, and watched them building a motorhome on a Merc chassis... all wood construction 2 x 4 type of put it together with nails.. and covered over with plastic ribbed sides .. horrible .. a vehicle waiting to leak and rot. Why was I at the factory? as a new bee in those days I owned one and it was falling to bits. Foster & Day came along and produced a good workmanship type motorhome... double the price of the Autotrail and and Gendales etc., so they did not sell well.

    The UK market wanted cheap and that is what was made for them. The Germans as you say built better ... they is why Hymers were always wanted by those that had any real idea about camping... I am talking 20 years plus ago... after the experience of the ono one eurobox I owned I purchased an A class RV (Yank) and have never looked back.. what was standard 25 years ago has just stared to arrive on UK euroboxes now...

    It seems we the buyers let the makers pass off on to us cheap built products, when there were better vehicle just across the channel... OK LHD.. but that is easy.. I switch from RHD to LHD many times each week.

    You get what you pay for. If you cannot get a bit here in the UK.. get it from Germany... we do it all the time with Yanks.. never causes us a problem.

    If it is right for you then go for it.

    Bob
     
  18. Seppi

    Seppi Read Only Funster

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    Thanks

    Thanks for the kind offer - if i go for this motorhome it's going to have to be a flight down in the morning followed by a drive back to Scotland in the afternoon to fit in with work and family commitments. I hope it's a bird in the hand and not cash they'd prefer.
     
  19. Seppi

    Seppi Read Only Funster

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    a good point

    Thanks for all of that.
    So you think £11k is a better price?
    It's a good point about us having to resell the motorhome, if we bought it for closer to £11k then perhaps that would make it wasier for us to sell in the future and get our money back (or a decent portion of it). That said, it may well have sold had we had a better summer - and more people knew about these mh's..
     
  20. Seppi

    Seppi Read Only Funster

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    Thanks, have been on there and someone has said that they'd be happy to have a look at it for me (to see if it's worth me making a trip down to view it) and think they know who it used to belong to.
     
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