new spanish A-frame ban!!

Discussion in 'Continental Touring' started by seanoo, Apr 2, 2010.

  1. seanoo

    seanoo Funster

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    hi all, just thought i'd pass this on. this morning i left vinaros heading south and after 5 km was pulled over by the gaurdia civil and told that it is no longer possible to use an A-frame in spain. the officer was very polite and spoke good english and showed me a 5 or 6 page A4 dossier showing photos of campers with towed cars and loads of blurb. this was a new document dated 31/3/2010 and supposedly sent to all the gaurdia civil saying as from this date a €60 fine will be imposed on anyone towing with a frame. i was not fined but told i would be if i continued to tow my car . i am going to benicarlo trafico office on tuesday when it reopens after easter weekend to try and get a copy of this document. so be warned, it looked official but who knows?? will keep you posted, all the best sean</SPAN>
     
  2. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    well , it had to happen sooner or later ; as it stands the regulations are not absolutely clear in several countries , and spain has at least studied the situation and made a decision

    what is needed is for the EU to frame regulations as to the legality of this , if they decide it should be legal lay down design specifics ; that way every country can adopt the same principles and we will all know where we stand

    spain is increasingly regularising it's vehicle regulations , it started with the high res/2 triangles bit , and the regulations about parking / camping motorhomes is now clear enough ;this winter I had a visit from a local policeman who told me I couldn't spend the night where I was , I asked why and he said because that is what his boss tells him to say
    I pointed out that I was not camping , absolutely nothing on the ground except the tyres , produced my copy of the government regulations , pointed out that HIS action was therefore illegal under EU regulations as he was trying to deprive me of my rights

    he wished me a pleasant good night and went on his way .....maybe because his boss drove up to see what was happening and gave him the nod not to press the point ...didn't say a word though

    maybe we need regulations for our vehicles as I understand exists for trucks in the EU ; just because you legally drive a truck in one country doesn't mean it is automatically legal to drive it in another [ it is not correct to say that if a vehicle is legal in the country of registration it is legal everywhere ]

    if I understand correctly there is a trucking specification which is legal in all EU countries , so that if you do continental trucking and buy to that you CAN go anywhere ; maybe someone from the trucking industry can confirm that as I only have it by word of mouth , it might just be that the trucking industry know that if , for example you don't exceed certain weights/dimensions/ spreads etc you will acceptable everywhere

    ps to seanoo , glad you didn't have to shell out €60 ; but this is typical of spain since the demise of franco ; if there is a new regulation they just rap your knuckles for the first year or so , let the word spread ; after that , on your own head be it !
     
  3. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    Fine !!!Ill just go to France instead and spend my money there:thumb:
    On their heads be it:Doh:
    I would like to see the list of Fatal or even serious accidents or even minor accidents or even ANY accidents caused by A frame towing that has warranted such action
    If its True:Wink::RollEyes:
     
  4. Larrynwin

    Larrynwin Funster

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    Yet more proof that the European Union does not work, all countries and cultures are different and as such cannot and will not be bound by the same regulations and laws.
     
  5. Tony Santara

    Tony Santara Funster

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    A Framing has always been a grey area even though some a frame fitting companies supply a document saying it is legal. I have a toad myself.
    As for the "trucking industry" being able to go anywhere is not strictly true we ( the trucking industry ) have always had to adhere to the laws of the country we travel through, it's not a lifetime ago ( pre EEC ) that we had to apply for permits to enter various countries.

    Until there is a directive by common market law that A Frames are legal or not we have to assume it's a grey area
     
  6. matamoros

    matamoros Funster

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    Don't know much about A-frames so googled this morning and came up with an interesting DfT document setting out their 'opinion' at the moment. All the DfT documents that I have seen have a proviso about the courts making the ultimate decisions, so until there is a test case all that can be done is to follow there advice which boils down to the towed car becoming a trailer and therefore complying with trailer regulations. This means the brakes have to work and automatic reversing must be possible, of course this only applies to the UK.
    I have seen today in Portugal an RV towing a vehicle on an A-frame, I will list the infringements that I could see:
    Unbraked A-frame
    Breakaway cable unattached ( would not do anything anyway)
    Red & white striped overhang marker displayed when no overhang.
    Incorrect long vehicle marker.

    Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the A-frame debate is it any wonder that the Guardia stop people when so many other obvious infringements are on display.
     
  7. Forestboy

    Forestboy Funster Life Member

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    Time to give this motorhome lark up soon I think.

    Can't tow a car, can't carry a motorbike in the garage.:Angry:
    Can't wildcamp, can't go into towns, height barriers, speed and lane restrictions, fuel prices:Eeek:

    For me its about traveling and seeing the world and £30k to £50k for a decent m/home buys a lot of traveling. The sense of freedom is rapidly being taken away by the faceless bureaucrats, there are plenty of other ways to travel. :Angry:
     
  8. Geo

    Geo Trader - Funster

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    At least two of your infringements could be down to your lack of experience with A frames and RVs
    an electric braking and brake away system is often used as in my case, no visible cables can be seen, and the factory fitted breakaway cable is surplus to requirements

    Also If I'm not mistaken differing laws such as the UK and Spain have a totally different out look, I believe over here things are legal until your told they are illegal
    and over there they are illegal until your told there legal:Doh:
    I could of course have dreamt all that:RollEyes:
     
  9. chatter

    chatter Read Only Funster

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    In spain it has always been illegal to use an A frame for the nationals and it would no doubt have got up their noses that Brits use them, even if you are in a car that has broken down you have to use a proper trailer to recover it over there.
    Someone in spain has possibly looked into the use of A frames here and found that they are a grey area with no legislation making them legal nor illegal so therefore anyone using one if pulled cannot claim they are legal over here.
     
  10. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    Agreed,you only have to see the look of envy on the faces of the Germans with there huge campers with a trailer behind that they more often than not have to pay campsite parking for when we roll up with the toad. PRICLESS.
     
  11. Larrynwin

    Larrynwin Funster

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    I'd thought about that Ror but travelling through airports, the queues , the security and the ever increasing safety issues, I think i'll stick to the RV :thumb:
     
  12. TonyIsh UK

    TonyIsh UK Read Only Funster

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    Not a great fan of Spain, to much dodgy dealing in the public services. All thos poor sods who legitimately built houses and the have the land taken or houses knocked down.

    Makes Spain a laughing stock, if was not so serious.

    Rgds
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
  13. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    the land grab business is exclusive to the valencia region and is a bad business even though legal ; which is why the EU is investigating ...the law has been there since the franco days and is against all natural justice

    but as regarding the demolition of houses , I happened to have a look at a couple of these properties this past winter ; the people who bought must have thought they were being clever ...the dodgy developer may have bribed the mayor to get a planning certificate but when you see a property being built in a protected area , clearly marked , you know something is wrong
    yes I know people sometimes got away with it in the past , but those days are over ; if you want to take a chance to look clever , feel free ....just don't whinge when the roof falls in

    some take bigger chances than others ...how about building a hotel in a protected area and hoping to get away with ! that guy will never have a room occupied before it is demolished !


    btw , found the answer to my question about EU truck specifications , it exists , and is most commonly known about eurokombi
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2010
  14. duetto owner

    duetto owner Read Only Funster

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    i do not have an A Frame motorhome and do not tow, but curious what are the dangers of this or the alleged reasons for the new law?
     
  15. Snowbird

    Snowbird Funster Life Member

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    I would think its becouse the Spanish nationals are not allowed to use an A frame, they dont like the idea of us having somthing that they cant.:Wink:
     
  16. lebesset

    lebesset Read Only Funster

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    well , whatever the reason for it being banned for spanish registered vehicles it is then totally illogical to allow foreign vehicles to do it

    suppose a french registered vehicle is in the UK ; how would you feel if it was legal for it to drive at 130Km/h on the motorway when you are illegal at above 110Km /h ?

    no brainer as far as I am concerned ; wherever you go you accept local law ...if you don't want to ...don't go
     
  17. Griffs

    Griffs Funster

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    A Frames

    Is it time to bury this thread ? as it is getting just as boring as the gas attacks!!!:Doh::Doh::Doh:
     
  18. gazz

    gazz Formerly "gazznhelz"

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    to be honest spain isa bit of a pain for laws,

    it is true that in the uk everything is legal untill made illegal, abroad, for sure in germany, everyting is illegal untill made legal.

    when i was touring europe a few years ago, i had a scooter and dog trailer, had bsolutely no problems with that untill i got to spain, where i was stopped and they wanted to take the scoot and trailer off me, because your not allowed to have animals in a trailer behine a scooter, never mind that i was from england where it was legal, and it was legal in germany, france, switzerland, holland, belgium and austria.. countried i'd ridden the scoot and dog trailer before getting to spain,

    in germany i has a police mad ask to take my photo with the 'rig' as he thought it was so cool.
     
  19. barnybg

    barnybg Read Only Funster

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    Spanish.......

    As mentioned in an earlier post,there's so many rules/regs and no go areas for motorhomes/vans in Spain,i cant see the point in going there anymore,perhaps if owners stopped going ,maybe they would lighten up,as to be honest they need every tourist to be there at the moment,a little like Greece on the lack of money issue !
    It seems to me,that they want you in a hotel or overpriced,sardined campsite,otherwise your not welcome,all the fool them,other destinations will be sought,France have their heads screwed on,and so of other countries,it's time you looked elsewhere in EUROPE,if travelling more than 500 miles....
    Otherwise it's take a braked car trailer,i guess or share a moped.
     
  20. matamoros

    matamoros Funster

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    !
    It seems to me,that they want you in a hotel or overpriced,sardined campsite,o

    Most so called 'wild' camping spots that I have seen in Spain & Portugal and even some in France resemble Tesco car park on a friday afternoon. The sites that we use in Europe are neither overpriced or overcrowded, you pays your money(or not) and takes your choice!!!
     
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