Mercedes quality - fact or phantom? (1 Viewer)

[Douglas]

I have never owned a Merc of any kind but I'm always surprised when I see a Sprinter type panel van, they all seem to be showing rust after about 3 years and and after 6 years they are a true rust bucket.

Doug...

 

[rainbow chasers]

I don't buy for fashionable names eg Mercedes, BMW etc., loads of money for a name but not always the best.
I bought a new Ford Galaxy Ghia in January 2000 from Holland , full british spec at a cost of £17000 all in, new cost at time £24000. Converted to LPG.
Now 11 years old, 105,000 miles, no rust no problems . A great people carrier.

If you look at your vin plate, you will notice that as you bought yours from Holland, it will be German Built. These Fords are well known for being 'better built' as they are better quality steel and have more protection against rust - the paint will also be more advanced.

Prestige has no meaning to me - I have been in the trade so long, a Ferrari is just another car. I bought the Merc whilst looking for a van - lol! I needed a certain type of van as I am disabled and needed something mid size. The van was a bag of poop, and I saw the merc on a forecourt on the way home.£1900 with a years warranty was pocket money....so I have a comfortable van! It also only cost £27 to get back, via motorway, from london - so economy is a bonus.

Merc Vans - as I said, they do rust. This is due to what I already mentioned...they are commercial and do not come with the same levels of protection as they are work horses. Couple this with the fact that most Merc vans are bought new by courier companies, whom will dent or scrape them, and leave them like it! Once the paint is broken and left - they will rust!


Also, Mid ninties was the era - getting tech now - that PAINT changed from ISOCYANATE to WATER based.

Early water based paints caused a major problem. They sweated when drying, having moisture trapped between the paint and the metal caused...rust!

Newer water based paints have been improved, so this is less of a problem, along with manufactuers replacing 'at risk' panels with plastic ones, and galvanising much more.

Engines in modern vehicles will have a much shorter lifespan - due to emissions standards, engines run on the absolute minimum oil. Virtually at seizure point - to minimize emissions. This means that modern engines are failing quicker - which is why owners are having head gaskets go at 40k, engines rteplaced on 5 year old vehicles and the like!

This is throughout the trade - and not just a Merc thing! Mercs are probably better now, with 30 year rust warranty and million mile engine warranty....but you will have to push hard for the dealers to honour it! Merc do have a habit of engaging mouth before brain when giving out incredulous guarantees!

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

I had one of the first X Type Jags. I took it in for a regular service and when I collected it I was told that they had replaced the gearbox even though I had never had any problems. When I asked why I was told that there had been some failures so as a precaution they changed them all.
Compare that with my business partners E Class Merc. He had a problem with his gear box and when he took it back to the main dealer they acknowledged that there was a fault but could'nt replace the gearbox as they had all been allocated to production.
Both cars were only about a year old.
I think I'm right in saying that many of the Mercs are now made in Brazil.

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[imprint]

Haven't read the whole thread (should that be 'hole'?), but I'm afraid that's the way the Mercedes Bends.

 

[pudseykeith]

The older ones were bomb proof. Unfortunatly the new computer controlled [ fly by wire ] ones are a pain to be avoided.
PK

 

[marktinkerman]

old n's

run a 1988 507 d for years now yes have to do minor rust bodges round skirts each year but mechanics pretty reliable worked it really hard and never brokedown so I couldn't fix it by roadside (or in field) only really bad design bit is interior door handles pull them Hard and they break... repairable with Gripfill and bits of carbon fiber tent pole. both 507 and 508 will run on veg oil starting ok down to frost on the ground ( legal if you fill in form )
mark

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[marktinkerman]

merc old n's

run a 1988 507 d for years now yes have to do minor rust bodges round skirts each year but mechanics pretty reliable worked it really hard and never brokedown so I couldn't fix it by roadside (or in field) only really bad design bit is interior door handles pull them Hard and they break... repairable with Gripfill and bits of carbon fiber tent pole. both 507 and 508 will run on veg oil starting ok down to frost on the ground ( legal if you fill in form )
mark

 

[robnchris]

Is this what we call quality these days?Worn ball joint after just 12 months sounds as though it could be expensive over several years.Had a merc van for work 2004 model i think and it was a rust bucket when i got rid of it but the engine had done 150,000 miles with no trouble and it was abused like most vans.
Must admit i love the drive on the fiat and with a tag axle i return between 26 to 28mpg if not more but would not buy another because fiat customer service is rubbish and thier warranty is not worth the paper it is written on.I tell several hundred people a year why i would not buy another fiat and my wife reckons i bear a grudge
Dave

Opps I didn`t make myself clear there did I, my fault, motorhome is actually 9 years old we bought it second hand (10 yrs old now)
As it turned out the lower suspension arm and ball joint were fine no worries.

As for quality we think sooner or later no matter what you buy there will be a bad one in there somewhere, don`t know about the reliability or build quality of the newr Mercs but if they are as bad a people are saying then they will be found out.

Last week we looked at another 2nd hand motorhome Auto-trial Aprapaho on a Fiat alko chassis, we loved the twin axle at the back very stable ride but would say the cab area isn`t as comfortable as our Merc.
Plus it was manual gearbox and we want an auto, bloody hell are they ripping us off for an auto gear box, they couldn`t give them away in the states with a manual.

 

[Terence]

Mercedes reliability,

I owned for 11 years a 508D motor home that I know is still on the road with 250,000 trouble free miles on it. We now have a Hymer S660 on a Mercedes chassis. The engine has just done 150,000 miles and the only thing I have replaced is the injectors. The vehicle is a 1988 model has good old analog electrics, came with a simples easy to read circuit diagram.
The engine is very basic with no fancy electronics. For me it is an ideal DIY vehicle. We did consider replacing it last year, but when we looked at what was available the cost and the quality we decided to stick with what we have.

Terence

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[jonandshell]

When I took my work Transit for its last MOT, there was a Sprinter Ambulance in for minor repairs.
It was an emergency ambulance, not one for picking up outpatients.

The mileage? 260 000! And lives depend on that vehicle!

 

[7735]

I own a 2008 rapido on a merc chassis with 3 litre engine and auto gearbox. It is a dream to drive and although I have just spent a total of £1300 on a starting problem I would buy another. I agree that some build issues is not the same as mercs from 40 years ago but better in other ways.
I have also owned 5 mercedes cars, all were reliable although depreciation was high. The best merc I owned was a 1981 380sl, 20years old when I bought it and 27 years old when I sold it. No problems at all and built like a brick s###t house.

spongy

 

[Wizbangs]

I've been reading this with a sinking heart. We have a Rapido on order on a Merc chassis. I'll be gutted if it's as bad as most of you seem to suggest.:Sad:

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[Wildman]

my last van a 1981 508D coachbuilt Newlanderonly had 98k miles on the clock, the chassis had never neen welded and never will need to be so.
current van is a 2000 2.3 sprinter based British built A class an Amazon Ambassador. no signs of rust in the chassis, engine excellent and drives like a dream. I would have another of the older marques like a shot.

 

[JJ]

Mercedes reliability,

I owned for 11 years a 508D motor home that I know is still on the road with 250,000 trouble free miles on it. We now have [HI]a Hymer S660 on a Mercedes chassis.[/HI] The engine has just done 150,000 miles and the only thing I have replaced is the injectors. [HI]The vehicle is a 1988 model [/HI]has good old analog electrics, came with a simples easy to read circuit diagram.
The engine is very basic with no fancy electronics. For me it is an ideal DIY vehicle. We did consider replacing it last year, but when we looked at what was available the cost and the quality we decided to stick with what we have.

Terence

I beat you by one year Terence...

My 660S is 1987.

Two owners before me, the last one a lady who owned it from 1989 until 2008.

150,000 kms on the clock. (I have done 37,000)

It really is much too nice for its current owner...

JJ :Cool:

 

[rainbow chasers]

What you have to remember not with mercedes alone, but with other makes also, is the fact they are commercial vehicles.

Modern commercial vehicles do not have any rust proofing as they are commercial - the rust proofing is up to you! If you do this when you get it, you won't have much of a problem. If you look at some of the french vehicles - they are the same. I have seen Citroen and Peugeot vehicles that are rotting away merrily at 6 years of age - shockingly so in some cases! Others are in better condition.

With Mercedes cars, the opposite is true - they are sealed within an inch of their lives. This is all well and good, but they don't just use an underseal, but sealant. The problem with undersels and moreso sealant, is the fact that it needs maintaining........and how many of us maintain our underbodies? Most forget once done, or expect the manufacturers to last 10 years of scrapes, dings and dents without piercing the sealant, and allowing water to get in - trapped water will rust like hell!

Mercedes also were the first to transfer from Isocyanate (cyanide) based paint, to water based (which all modern cars are now - mercs started in early-mid 90's) At the time, it was early techonology - and it was merc that ironed out the issues with using it.

Using water based caused issues - it trapped water beneath the paint.....and that caused rust! It was further developed to what we have today. We all remember paint complaints from various manufacturers as they changed over.

Mercedes will warranty your car against rust for 30 years (fter 1999) - but you DO have to keep your servicing up to date, and only allow merc authorised repairers touch it - that said, a man did get around this by taking merc to court, stating that servicing had no effect of body rust - he won.

Mercs have their bad points, early noughties saw ECU problems, which were later solved. It effects all manufacturers in some form. It is no different than juddergate - but you still buy new models don't you? Compared with the rest, they are not bad - even with their faults. Parts are surprisingly cheap - check my antiroll bar bushes out, they were huge! Merc main dealer £2.90 a pair! Though not as indestructible as older mercs, they are ok. But to be fair, no engine is any vehicle is as reliable as the older models, due to emissions running them so close to seizure point.

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[maxsdad]

I've been reading this with a sinking heart. We have a Rapido on order on a Merc chassis. I'll be gutted if it's as bad as most of you seem to suggest.:Sad:

You are not alone ours is due in January think positive

 

[joner8888]

Of all the cars i have ever owned over the years--A MB 180C was the first to ever break down and also 2 months out of warranty the rear crank oil seal broke spewing oil everywhere ,had to remove the engine to change it.
MB was a marque one wanted to expire to, but is just a Audi with bling.
I use a Ford now with no problems and half the running costs.

The couriers i do work for now use VW Crafters not Mercs as they cost too much in replacement engines.

 

[Mel]

The*VW Crafter is a Mercedes Sprinter built on 5he same production line.

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[Reallyretired]

My Mercedes Rapido A class is fine, no mechanical problems so far (5 years and 28k) and much smoother engine than the Fiats of which I've owned many. The rear wheel drive is so much better on grass than the front wheel drive Fiats.
The absence of a cambelt on the Mercedes is a bit of a plus too, one less thing to fail. The electronics are a bit complicated but then so are recent Fiats.

 

[joner8888]

The*VW Crafter is a Mercedes Sprinter built on 5he same production line.

With a different engine

 

[aba]

With a different engine

i thought it was about 95% of the bodywork was the same and everything else was VW.

incidentally a friend ordered a new sprinter that had to be built as he wanted a different engine to what was fitted standard in the particular body shell he wanted, on the day of delivery he went to inspect the van and he rejected it because of body rust coming through the paint.

this was supposed to have been a special build so should have not even thought about rusting.
he then went to fiat and got a Ducato.

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[pegleg]

Sprinter

My Sprinter has done 32000 miles and is 9 years old now and still runs like new ,the engine is the 27 turbo and split shift gearbox .I don't hammer my motorhome there no need max speed I take to is 55 to 65 use cruse control .:thumb: mind you its a PHANTOM R.G. by GEIST

 

[longdog]

I just know I`m a bloody fool for writing this but have to say we have had our Merc sprinter based motorhome for almost a year now and I would`nt want anything else, it has the Sprint shift auto gearbox (which apparently is actually a semi auto box) not certain of the difference but ours is faultless.

Going in for a service tomorrow so I suppose I should have left this until I got it back..oh:

I think it has a worn lower ball joint as the near side tyre is wearing on the outside edge but apparently Sprinters are heavy on ball joints.
We have just done 2600 miles touring around Scotland and it managed to return 27 mpg which we are delighted with.

So would I buy another... most certainly :thumb:

I have a CI Cipro 55 on a Sprinter base with the Sprintshift box on a 56 plate. I am a little surprised at how heavy it is in diesel.

For example, over 450 miles, of which 400 were motorway, I achieved 20.48mpg. Now this was driving at an indicated 58 - 63mph with just 2 cold starts at the beginning of each journey.

The van is nice to drive, it goes well, I have tried Millers Diesel Clean in the fuel and I have tried a couple of expensive tankfuls of Shell's finest diesel, all with the same result.

After life with a 2001 Hymer on a Fiat Ducato base powered by the 2.8 JTD lump where I achieved 23 - 25mpg, then I was hoping for 25 - 27mpg from the more modern MB lump.

 

[mariner]

Your problem could be wheel size.

I had a Hymer 640 on a Merc 416 with 195/70-15 tyres and got poor MPG around the 18 to 20 mpg.

I did a bit of research and found that by switching to a 205/70-15, much better mpg figures could be achieved.

As it happens I moved it on before it was due a new set of boots but had I not done so I would have changed the tyre sizes.


:Cool:

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[outkast]

I recently bought a 1999 sprinter with the 2.9 td engine, it has 245000 on the clock and I have to say mechanicaly its as strong as an ox, far more tourqe than my transit connect I use for work, before buying it I did a lot of research online and the common chain of thought seems to be that the first gen sprinters were the best, I found numerous users who delighted with the performance of their first gen, then went on to buy a later model, only to find that were not as good, the build quality and the reliability all seem to have been suffered greatly as the line progressed, a lot of people seemed to have regretted selling there first gen and "upgrading"

most of the advice I was given was to try and find a good first gen.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Take a look at how many vans on the road ( commercial) are the 2014 new Sprinters, huge number since it has only just been launched ( identified by the deeper grill) That must tell you something if the 'trade' use them by choice. I make a point of asking delivery drivers " How do you like your ....." and never yet had one that didn't like the Sprinter.

We have owned Renault, Peugeot, Fiat, Toyota vans over many years. For the past three a Mercedes based EuroV motorhome which is by far the best. Renault and Toyota were good too, Peugeot and Fiat ( 3 of them) did the job but just felt cheap by comparison.

Don't see me changing my Sprinter for a long time!

 

[busby]

My Mercedes Rapido A class is fine, no mechanical problems so far (5 years and 28k) and much smoother engine than the Fiats of which I've owned many. The rear wheel drive is so much better on grass than the front wheel drive Fiats.
The absence of a cambelt on the Mercedes is a bit of a plus too, one less thing to fail. The electronics are a bit complicated but then so are recent Fiats.

28K...troubles....should think not at that mileage. Should get 100000 at least before any problems. BUSBY

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[busby]

My Sprinter has done 32000 miles and is 9 years old now and still runs like new ,the engine is the 27 turbo and split shift gearbox .I don't hammer my motorhome there no need max speed I take to is 55 to 65 use cruse control .:thumb: mind you its a PHANTOM R.G. by GEIST

With 32000 on the clock its hardly run in. BUSBY

 

[busby]

Take a look at how many vans on the road ( commercial) are the 2014 new Sprinters, huge number since it has only just been launched ( identified by the deeper grill) That must tell you something if the 'trade' use them by choice. I make a point of asking delivery drivers " How do you like your ....." and never yet had one that didn't like the Sprinter.

We have owned Renault, Peugeot, Fiat, Toyota vans over many years. For the past three a Mercedes based EuroV motorhome which is by far the best. Renault and Toyota were good too, Peugeot and Fiat ( 3 of them) did the job but just felt cheap by comparison.

Don't see me changing my Sprinter for a long time!

The drivers may like them but they do not have to pay the repair bills..Most new vans are leased and companies go for the best deal not the best van. BUSBY

 

[outkast]

well I have just returned from my first trip out in the sprinter, its mark 1 with three hundred and forty five thousand miles on the clock, its still pulls like a train and I have just worked out my MPG for the trip, at a steady 65-70 mph it returned a sterling 30 mpg :thumb:

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