Insurance companies - a law unto themselves (1 Viewer)

[Mick Kennedy]

I wonder if anyone has encountered a similar problem to ours with High & Mighty insurance companies? They really are a law unto themselves. Any advice on our problem would be much appreciated.

Our issue is that, after radically improving our motorhome with lots of industry-standard improvements (solar panels, lithium batteries, levelling kit, air suspension, etc), we applied to increase the ''sum insured'' on our motorhome, but were knocked back. All of the jobs were professionally installed and we have full invoices and receipts from reputable dealers, but no. We're insured through the club, through Devitt Insurance. Indeed, not only were we knocked back, but they say they are going to cancel our insurance!!! The killer line after telling us they would not allow us to increase the sum insured was,

''......if we do not hear from you within the next 7 days we will proceed with cancellation of this insurance due to unacceptable mid-term adjustment''

Unacceptable??? We were trying not only to protect our investment, but also to give them more business. What is unacceptable about that?

We've spent £45K on improving it, so it seemed only sensible to re-evaluate and pay more premium to be covered properly in case of loss. We're not rich or anything, but this is the pinnacle now of our motorhoming lives as we reach retirement age. We started off in an old Bedford CF in 1980 and have worked our way up through combi's and what-not to our current Kontiki 649. We think it will be our last motorhome (forty years in) so we pushed the boat out on this one to get it as good as we could while we still have earning power.

Has anybody had a similar experience? Is there an insurance ombudsperson we can contact? How can it be legal for them to withdraw our insurance because we've asked to pay to increase the sum insured? We were offering them MORE business. It seems absurd. The world's gone bonkers.

All opinions welcome! Mick & Lisa.

 

[DavidG58]

You have added £45K

I am not surprised at their reaction, that is hardly ‘normal’

I have added a lot to mine but not spent £20K

Notified insurers but didn’t bother with adding to insured value, depreciation will sort itself out

 

[The Wino]

I suspect it will depend on the%change in value but it would look very strange to an insurer if it suddenly increased in value by a huge margin and then there was a claim.

 

[Spriddler]

When does your cover expire? Are they saying that because they don't wish to cover your increased valuation the policy will end naturally (i.e. not be renewed) at the current valuation and expiry date?
Indeed, ins. co's are a law unto themselves with regard to accepting or declining risk as they wish.

 

[9526]

Have you considered quotes elsewhere then cancelling your policy?

Having a policy cancelled means you have to declare it in future (it’s a common question on quotation forms)

probably better to take the initiative and jump before pushed.

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[Jimbohorlicks]

Most insurers seem to be amenable to a few improvements, modifications, but to add £45k s worth seems a bit OTT., not surprised they want out.I would answer that you want to continue with the present policy and not declare the extras until you are ready to renew the insurance and try elsewhere, obviously declaring the extras.

 

[DandG5515]

Unfortunately spending that sort of money on improvements, may only see an increase of £5-£10k in the retail or trade value of your Moho, hence that is all they will be willing to cover. i am covered by the same club and I understand Devitt is a broker, the policy you have may have an upper limit. Friends of ours have just purchased an expensive motorhome but insured it for £99,999 to keep the policy sensible. Our Motorhome insurance value has remained static and at 11years old is insured for £1000 less than I paid for it 11 years ago.

 

[Mick Kennedy]

Thanks for the input, folks. These vehicles are £102K new, ours is less than two years old, now with £45K of improvements, so us wanting to insure it (and happy to pay increased premium to do so) of £115K doesn't seem unreasonable to me, especially with a virtual life-time of no claims. To answer questions above - our cover isn't due to expire until December, but now they are saying they will cancel it within 7 days.............because we've improved the vehicle???? Further, I contacted them a few months ago explaining that we were materially improving the vehicle and would want to increase the insurance and they said, "Fine, contact us with all the specifics when you are done'' which we did. And now we're not only not going to be covered, but also are getting the elbow with all the future implications of that...................not happy. No wonder Warren Buffet says always to invest in insurance companies.............

 

[Scotsblood]

Unless you have an “agreed value” policy insurers will only ever pay a “market” price for any vehicle. Increases in suggested value of this magnitude will in their eyes massively increase potential theft risk and automatically give them a hard time if you tried to claim your perceived value based on your costs whereas the true retail value may be 10 or even 20k less.
They are simply protecting their business.

 

[Mick Kennedy]

Yes, poor old insurance companies.................

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[Jimbohorlicks]

Just ask them the max value they will insure your van for and then go with that till December and look for another insurer before expiry.

 

[Mick Kennedy]

Yes Jimbo, that makes sense. Ta. I'll do that if I can, although they've said they are cancelling it in seven days......best get my skates on and shop around now!

 

[Vipar]

Understand if you don’t want to answer my question

What have you done that cost £45k. Have you got paperwork you can send to the robbers

 

[Blue Knight]

Friends of ours have just purchased an expensive motorhome but insured it for £99,999 to keep the policy sensible.

Your friends are proper dodgy in that case and have deliberately declared incorrect information to the insurance company.

Their insurance provider may find that they dishonestly obtained the insurance, and, as such, is fully entitled to invalidate/void the policy.

 

[monzer]

Yes they are a frustrating bunch. I still don't know how they get away with the whole no claims bonus stuff; 6 years no claims bonus means you have gained 6 years more driving experience and in that time you haven't had an accident or indeed needed to claim. That NCB is yours but they say 'ooh you can only use it on one vehicle!'

Why? If I have 20 policies it is my right to use the fact that I have been a safe driver to lower the cost on every single one of them.

They don't move the goalposts, they pick them up and take them home.

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[Mick Kennedy]

Your friends are proper dodgy in that case and have deliberately declared incorrect information to the insurance company.

Their insurance provider may find that they dishonestly obtained the insurance, and, as such, is fully entitled to invalidate/void the policy.

I took this the other way, that the friends had said it was worth LESS than they paid to ‘’keep it sensible’’ as he says. But even then, why do that? To save on the premium?

 

[Yorick]

You had a contract with the insurers.

You broke the contract rules.

They want to cancel.

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

A guy I work with bought a new Audi RS6, had it about 18 months, sold it and bought a new BMW, the family didn't like it, made them a bit sea sick, so decided to go back to an RS6, they had stopped producing them as a new model was coming out and the RS6 would follow later. So he bought a second hand one, about 6 months old, Audi MD's personal car, loads of extras but a lower value than the new one he had. He still lived in the same house etc etc but all of a sudden the same insurance company wouldn't insure the lower value second hand one. Never did find out their reasoning.

 

[Mick Kennedy]

Understand if you don’t want to answer my question

What have you done that cost £45k. Have you got paperwork you can send to the robbers

Yes, I’ve got invoices and receipts from all the reputable dealers who’ve done the work and I’ve supplied the insurance company with it all. But I won’t list it all specifically here, Vipar, ‘cos it can come across as showing off and then you get snotty comments about why you did it all, and snipe, snipe, and I don’t want to go there. Indeed, I’d LIKE to share it all with you, ‘cos it’s been dead interesting and satisfying to do, but I know it will open a can of snidey worms if I do so online. You can even see in some of the replies in this thread here, an element of that, in people having ‘’sympathy’’ for the insurance companies (I ask you!) and the implication that we deserve their tactics because we’ve been ‘’daft enough’’ to spend so much. Can’t be arsed with all that, so I’ll steer clear of specifics, Buddy, if you don’t mind. But by all means, if you want to contact me privately I’ll be happy to tell you. I’m made up with the results, but just would be happier if I could insure it all. Cheers, Mick.

 

[Mick Kennedy]

You had a contract with the insurers.

You broke the contract rules.

They want to cancel.

We didn’t break any contract rules. We increased the value of our asset and asked them (for an increased premium) to cover us for a greater amount. It’s standard practice. If you bought a mini and then traded it in for fancier car you ask the insurance company to give you a new quote. That’s all we’ve done. We certainly haven’t broken any contract.

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[Yorick]

We didn’t break any contract rules. We increased the value of our asset and asked them (for an increased premium) to cover us for a greater amount. It’s standard practice. If you bought a mini and then traded it in for fancier car you ask the insurance company to give you a new quote. That’s all we’ve done. We certainly haven’t broken any contract.

Bet there's summat in the small print.

 

[Blue Knight]

We didn’t break any contract rules. We increased the value of our asset and asked them (for an increased premium) to cover us for a greater amount. It’s standard practice. If you bought a mini and then traded it in for fancier car you ask the insurance company to give you a new quote. That’s all we’ve done. We certainly haven’t broken any contract.

Though in your case you're not actually exchanging a standard van for a posher van but, instead, you are taking a standard van and adding £45,000 of modifications and expecting a company to accept the risk without first conferring with them. That is a serious chunk of money and in all honesty not something I've ever come across before (with the exception of the Morelo and Concorde manufacturers own price lists).

I modify cars as a hobby but every time I add something I first speak with the insurance guys to see if they'll accept the mod. OK, admittedly, I'm into the extreme spectrum of mods but the principle still applies.

Good luck with the outcome.

 

[Mick Kennedy]

No mate, we DID confer with them. You will see further up the page I wrote,

".......Further, I contacted them a few months ago explaining that we were materially improving the vehicle and would want to increase the insurance and they said, 'Fine, contact us with all the specifics when you are done' which we did......''

If they had some rules against what we've done, then that would have been the time to tell us. Not wait until we'd done all the work, applied for a sum-insured increase and then suddenly tell us they are going to cancel our insurance in seven days.

Also (given your own hobby, you'll get this) I have a Mark II Jag which I've modified with modern Jaguar running gear (shown elsewhere on this site) so that it still looks like a '66 Mark II but drives like a modern Jag so that I can use it as my every-day car and not just a Sunday Special, and I had no problem increasing the insurance on that - so what's the difference? Same vehicle, materially improved. My original statement remains valid - ''Insurance companies - a law unto themselves''.

I thank you for your wishes for a good outcome, but I'm not hopeful.

 

[MC 55 FUN]

My only experience of dealing with a no fault car insurance claim I made very recently was extremely positive & I can't fault Direct line in any way, of course no-one knows how '' good '' an insurance company actually is until they submit a claim.

 

[DandG5515]

I took this the other way, that the friends had said it was worth LESS than they paid to ‘’keep it sensible’’ as he says. But even then, why do that? To save on the premium?

Yes you got it, insurance companies have thresholds, 40-50k for trackers, 100k is another threshold, his existing policy would not cover new van over 100k but he is willing to loose the small difference in a claim. Back to this thread unless under 1 year old and being new for old, they will only cover market value for the vehicle.

best to check with insurance max value they will cover then make decision to continue or cancel.

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[chaser]

Try nfu they don't really bother what you say it's worth, but then again iv never ever insured anything worth more than a tenth of your motorhome.

 

[Pausim]

Try nfu they don't really bother what you say it's worth, but then again iv never ever insured anything worth more than a tenth of your motorhome.

I am with NFU but when I changed motorhomes they said it exceeded their new maximum value limits however as an existing customer they would continue to insure me. The agent added that he thought they might quickly review the position because the new limit was a knee jerk reaction to a couple of very expensive claims involving super cars not motorhomes.

They raised no objection to most of the mods, such as a LiFePO4 battery. They did refer my Efoy to the underwriters technical department, I provided extra details about the fuel cartridges and they came back with an ok. He said most modifications did not worry NFU but they got jumpy about anything that affected performance or handling. I wonder whether suspension modifications might be something they would want to take a closer look at.

 

[Mick Kennedy]

I am with NFU but when I changed motorhomes they said it exceeded their new maximum value limits however as an existing customer they would continue to insure me. The agent added that he thought they might quickly review the position because the new limit was a knee jerk reaction to a couple of very expensive claims involving super cars not motorhomes.

They raised no objection to most of the mods, such as a LiFePO4 battery. They did refer my Efoy to the underwriters technical department, I provided extra details about the fuel cartridges and they came back with an ok. He said most modifications did not worry NFU but they got jumpy about anything that affected performance or handling. I wonder whether suspension modifications might be something they would want to take a closer look at.

Heh, heh! Unexpectedly, this situation has given me a laugh. When Chaser said "Try nfu they don't really bother what you say it's worth.....'' I thought it was an acronym meaning I could try, but it was ''no effing use'' cos they don't care what you say. I hadn't realised until Pauism made the next comment that NFU is a company! (Been living out of the country for 20-odd years) Thanks for the laugh, and thanks for the tip. I'll contact them and find out what they have to say.

 

[Podney]

When you first contacted your insurer to tell them you were making modifications,did you explain the large amount of money involved? If not,perhaps you should have done so. And the guy at the insurer who said “that’s fine,just let us know when it’s all done” should have asked you the cost of mods and told you if there was an upper limit. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Fact is,insurers have limits on just about every sum insured......if they didn’t they would never know their maximum risk.

If Devitt are the broker i.e. registered insurance broker,you need to establish whether they are acting on your behalf,or whether they are acting as agent on behalf of the insurance company. They can’t be both.
If they are acting on your behalf they appear to be making a pigs ear of it unnecessarily. They could have negotiated special cover with the existing insurer,or found another one for you.

 

[Odd job]

Insurance companies have a target market and it is possible that the mods you have done has taken you outside the area of expertise they have, therefore they are unable to calculate the risk, so don't want to insure your van.
A few years ago my wife changed from an imported MX5 to a new Beatle, when we told the insurance company they put the premium up a lot. When I asked why, as the new car was a lower insurance group, they told me that they specialised in imported vehicles and at the end of the policy we got much lower quotes from other companies.

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