Fiat Ducato Starting Current.

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by Gromett, Jun 3, 2015.

  1. Gromett

    Gromett Funster

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    I am just wondering what current the starter motor in a Fiat Ducato 2.8JTD draws?

    Does anyone know by any chance?
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    I would guess initial crank amps between 250 and 400amps.....a cold winter engine will be higher.
     
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  3. Gromett

    Gromett Funster

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    Hehe, that is the critical bit. I need to know what the constant cranking amperage is :whistle:
    I have a cunning plan but need to the max current to know if it will work.

    It involves small solar panels, LiPo batteries and super capacitors :confused::eek:;)
     
  4. andy63

    andy63 Funster

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    hi grommet, not the fiat but a trace from an old ford 2.5di engine... shows the cranking current against time..ive got other traces showing the current peaking at over 600amps for a short period before settling down to the values in this test.
    ta andy
    transit crank test.png
     
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  5. John Laidler

    John Laidler Funster

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    As PJ says, several hundred amps for a very short period then it will fall off as it starts cranking the engine. Which isn't much of an answer I know but the current varies considerably over the starting cycle. The cranking amperage will also vary depending on the ambient temperature as the colder it is the thicker the oil and when cold the battery will also be affected but I'm not sure what the impact would be - low voltage would give slow cranking so the amps should be higher. Possibly!
     
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  6. Gromett

    Gromett Funster

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    Ok, I will give it away. I tripped over this video...


    And I already had this in my to buy list at Amazon.
    www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00S64X8BK/

    And I was thinking of setting up a combination system. Where I had a LiPo battery in combination with a supercap pack.

    I can get LiPo battery packs with 400Amp so 2 in parallel and a supercap bank to give the boost....

    But then I found this....



    Just messing at the moment with ideas.
     
  7. John Laidler

    John Laidler Funster

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    Why not just buy a battery - you know, one of those big black things which live under the bonnet. Or in motorhomes usually hidden somewhere else. :)
     
  8. Gromett

    Gromett Funster

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  9. Gromett

    Gromett Funster

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    You are no fun :p
     
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  10. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    I use jump leads......works every time.
     
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  11. Wildbill

    Wildbill Funster

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    keep it simple john (y)
     
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  12. jonandshell

    jonandshell Funster

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    OK, sorry to rain on your parade, but-

    Do you know the discharge characteristics of those capacitors? The video quotes lots of cranking amps, but at what voltage?
    A motor will draw more and more amperage as the voltage falls. This increasing amperage will take its toll on the starter's solenoid tips, brushes, windings and commutator.
    You need adequate reserve capacity to keep the voltage up and maintain good motor speed without a massive voltage drop.
    I don't think those capacitors will achieve that.

    Other considerations for capacity also include prolonged cold starting, heater plug use and the occasional requirement to leave road lighting on with the engine switched off.
     
  13. tonyidle

    tonyidle Funster

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    I like the ideas. I'd have some concerns about using caps. on their own because of the rapid voltage fall-off as most engine ECUs prevent starter engagement below a certain voltage to preserve their own supply. Used in conjunction with LIPOs the problem is solved as long as proper charge control is implemented for the LIPOs - they have charge characteristics very different from lead-acid & become explosive when offended.
     
  14. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    Hi Karl if I still had my old Iveco ambulance I would have loved to try it all out along side you -just for the adventure- ;)but with this new Relay I fear the leccy bits would blow it's brain :DIt sent it in a tail spin when after we ran the battery down with radio on and jump starting it we decided to couple the batt charger onto the jump start bit --BIG NO some of the small relay's started to buzz and the comp went into overdrive and I had to get mate down to reset everything with his comp -he told me they don't like charging that way -another lesson learned :rolleyes::DKeep us post at your progress (y)
    terry
     
  15. Gromett

    Gromett Funster

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    Just so everyone knows where I am coming from. My van battery fails a lot. I go off hookup an awful lot and over the period of a week if I don't move the battery can flatten. Once this has happened a few times the battery is injured. This means it can take a while for it to start. I have a charger for it which is permanently connected when I am on hookup, I will be putting a dedicated solar panel in for it shortly. What I am thinking of doing is hooking the capacitors up in parallel with the vehicle battery and solar. The solar will keep the battery and caps topped up. What's the point? Well the additional boost from the caps should allow me to start the van quite a bit quicker as the voltage in my battery does seem to drop rather quickly. I am fed up of replacing the van battery every year or two.

    Up until now I had my Hab batteries (tractions) in parallel with the van battery via a very very thick wire which I could connect in an emergency. This would get me going. However I have just rejigged the van and am doing without that connection for other reasons.

    I also think it will be a fun toy to play with on it's own just to see what it can do. Please note I would never get rid of the engine battery completely as I am not that brave :p

    I have looked into what is draining the van battery but cannot find anything obvious.

    The obvious choice would be to get a new battery and solar panel at the same time, however that would be sensible and no fun :whistle::D
     
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  16. John Laidler

    John Laidler Funster

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    The Army used to have a generator you started by pumping a handle. This pressurised a hydraulic system which was then used to turn the motor over to start it. No help of course for starting a motorhome but it does show there are many ways to skin this cat. I've seen an old oil engine which started with compressed air as well. As I recall it ran like a steam engine so to speak and then when the flywheel was whizzing round you changed over to running on fuel. This was after of course you had heated up the top of the cylinder head with a blowlamp!
     
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  17. Gromett

    Gromett Funster

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    Or couple of rags dowsed in paraffin underneath :whistle:(y)
     
  18. gus-lopez

    gus-lopez Funster

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    Yes ,Citroen are the same. Friend here had a new picasso & battery died . I was amazed at what you had to do just to jump start it ( glad I read book first !!!!) but it was dead as doornail. Then reading what to do re changing it . open drivers window, shut door, turn on ignition, etc. change battery, lean in through window turn on , wait 5 minutes , turn on lights, etc;etc;
    If I hadn't been reading it in a Citroen handbook I'd have thought it was a joke. :LOL:Even after it was recovered ( under guarantee) the Citroen dealer couldn't change the battery until Citroen España authorised it because in the book it specifically states that if the battery is going to fail it will do it from new usually in the first 6 months & this was just over.

    It is quite easy these days to wipe out an ecu & with an older vehicle it renders it scrap as the replacement cost is so high.
     
  19. Taran_Las

    Taran_Las Funster

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    Never heard it described in such an eloquent way before.(y)
     
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  20. Terry

    Terry Funster

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    If it's any help we simply changed the battery without doing anything out of the ordinary IE undo clamps and retaining strap changed battery over -- It could be that some more warnings lights came on during this time but seeing how it was lit up like a xmas tree cannot say we noticed :)I know the battery was comp flat so I connected it to another for an hour or so with the charger on -after an hour the charger acepted there was a battery on so went along and took 3 days to charge the battery -it's still holding charge so I may have got away with it ;):DIf not it's a big battery so I'LL GET 10/15 QUID SCRAP :)
    terry
     
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