Fiat cold start relay problem

Discussion in 'Tech/Mech General' started by scotty4011, Jan 2, 2015.

  1. scotty4011

    scotty4011 Read Only Funster

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    Hello to everyone on motorhome fun
    This is my first post and i'm looking for a bit of help/guidance. I have a 1990 fiat ducato 2.5td and the cold start relay doesn't seem to work as it should. When i turn the ignition on the light flicks on then off again and its tacking a lot of crancking to get her going these days. Are these relays still available?
    Many thanks in advance

    Jeff
     
  2. vin0114

    vin0114 Funster

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    maybe battery very low or gloplugs failing? welcome to FUN.
     
  3. scotty4011

    scotty4011 Read Only Funster

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    Thank vin, but she hasn't got gloplugs she's got a flame plug instead. i have read somewhere about bypassing the original relay but was hopeing someone on here had done it and could give me some advice.
     
  4. jollyrodger

    jollyrodger Funster Life Member

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    :welc:Yep done it a successfully a couple of times tho old way is a HD push button( plenty on eBay) wired direct from battery + pole via the button ,ignition, on push buttonfor 30 sec.start engine .if you know how its quite simple .hope this helps
     
  5. Badknee

    Badknee Funster

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    Haha JR, pictures/wiring diagram/ offer to do it for him might help a bit more. ;)(y)
     
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  6. jollyrodger

    jollyrodger Funster Life Member

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    Haha JR, pictures/wiring diagram/ offer to do it for him might help a bit more. ;)(y)[/QUOTE]
    Naa ! Got enough going on at the mo
    Hence if you know what your doing :xgrin:
     
  7. Badknee

    Badknee Funster

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    Naa ! Got enough going on at the mo
    Hence if you know what your doing :xgrin:[/QUOTE]
    Well of course I would without any hesitation help out this new Funster sort his Fiat out, but I haven't a bloody clue what your talking about, errrrrr, perhaps park on a hill and bump start? (Joke)
     
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  8. TheBig1

    TheBig1 Funster Life Member

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    replacement relays can still be bought but very expensive

    just locate the relay and identify the power feed and output. wire a push to make switch between them is the quick and dirty fix. not at all complicated
     
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  9. scotty4011

    scotty4011 Read Only Funster

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    thanks for all your help. weekend job sorted.
     
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  10. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    Whats so special about this relay ?

    To me it will have a main feed from the battery/fusebox, a feed to the heater plug, a trigger from the ignition and an earth for same.

    You can buy relays of almost any amperage.
     
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  11. mikekaren2

    mikekaren2 Funster

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    I also have the same problem on my 1999 Hymer, Ducato 2.8td. If JR or someone could point me in the right direction where the flame plug is (or better still a photo & wireing diagram) I would be happy to make a tutorial mod & post it on here.
     
  12. Lindsay

    Lindsay Read Only Funster

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    I don't know these particular engines, but a good place to look would be the inlet manifold.
     
  13. jollyrodger

    jollyrodger Funster Life Member

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    On the older Fiat you could easily access the heater plugs or as in the op the heat element but later ones tend to be hidden along under plastic housing .not familiar with your layout mikekaren2
     
  14. mikekaren2

    mikekaren2 Funster

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    When it stops raining I will take a picture and post it here that may help.

    Mike
     
  15. mikekaren2

    mikekaren2 Funster

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    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

    Photos as promised, can anyone narrow down where the flame plug is located, this model doesn't have glow plugs.

    Thanks in advance
    Mike
     
  16. Nigel67

    Nigel67 Funster

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    Its in the top right hand corner of PIC 2 the copper coloured part. New ones are about £20.
     
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  17. Nigel67

    Nigel67 Funster

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    Also im not sure just powering the flamestart direct on its own will work as there is also a solenoid that let's fuel on to the flamestart after a certain length of time when it has heated up. Also note that the glow plug\heater dash light will only come on when its below zero degrees all other times it will only flash on/off very quickly. I may be wrong on these facts but this is how i understand it works.
     
  18. Jonkil

    Jonkil Funster

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    Better have this "pinned out" by someone who knows the score.
    A blown plug will make the relay go in/out quickly as they usually have a load sensing circuit in them.
    Wiring a relay (bendinx starter motor solenoid, used in the old Morris mini) is usually what is used.
    I'll do up a diagram if required, but this problem is sortable by any competent auto electrician using the vehicles own circuits. Quite a common fault repair in our workshops.
    I can also supply you a schematic if that helps.
     
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  19. Nigel67

    Nigel67 Funster

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    I have done the separate solenoid mod on an lt35 to power the glow plugs after the relay died but like my own m/h which has no conventional glow plugs just the one flamestart fitted in the inlet manifold do you think this will work as the fuel solenoid still has to be powered at the correct time during the heating up period? I have not been able to find a decisive answer for this as its an unusual system, the last vehicle I had with this type of system was a Bedford 330tk engine.
     
  20. Jonkil

    Jonkil Funster

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    Good question,
    Not conventional heater plugs.
    I take it the "flame plug" heats first and the fuel solenoid is activated later (possibly when cranking). If so, a second relay could do this, or if the fuel solonoid is set to activate after a pre determined time then a circuit using a 555 chip could do it.
    I would sort the problem by repairing what the manafacturer had in place if at all possible.
     
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